ChiGoose Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 33 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: So you’re saying there is corruption in Ukraine? Really? Go figure! Must be a new thing. I’ve been pretty consistent on this. Don’t know what your deal is.
SoCal Deek Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 12 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I’ve been pretty consistent on this. Don’t know what your deal is. I’m extremely consistent too. I believe that we should be concerned about all corruption. Even when it centers around our elected officials. Can you say the same? 1
ChiGoose Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 15 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I’m extremely consistent too. I believe that we should be concerned about all corruption. Even when it centers around our elected officials. Can you say the same? Yes. 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 4 hours ago, Chris farley said: Lol. Using cfr as a reference. I know some of us prefer to rely on heroin addict English has-been comics, or stay-at-home-mom legal pundits without a law degree, of the guy who thought child torture was going on in the basementless basement of a DC pizza shop. I prefer the Council on Foreign Relations. 2 minutes ago, B-Man said: Again, what I mean when I say today's TrumpRight is often indistinguishable from the anti Military-Industrial Complex left of the 1960s-80s. You know, the people Nixon and Reagan called commies back then. 2
All_Pro_Bills Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: I prefer the Council on Foreign Relations. The Council on Foreign Relations is a "think tank" that has consistently advocated and supported every failed war and intervention hatched in Washington. Among its ranks are lobbyists for weapons suppliers, neocons, and an army of war proponents that shuffle between the Federal bureaucracy and the defense industry and various organizations advocating for war. All that's been accomplished by this is to kill lots of people, line the pockets of Washington and defense industry insiders, and weaken our country from within and in the international community. This Ukraine fiasco will end no differently. Another one in the loss column. The other thing these clucks have accomplished, is what I expect will go down as one of the biggest strategic blunders in history which is to drive China and Russia together out of necessity and a common enemy. How stupid is that? To consciously make a decision to bring the #2 and #3 world powers together against you when it would have been just as easy to pursue a policy of engaging Russia to form a US/Russia/NATO alliance against China. That's my major beef with this entire conflict. Not some inclination to see one side or the other prevail or some flag waving exercise pretending we're supporting some fledgling democracy against evil but rather that it wasn't necessary and several better alternatives were available. But the sociopaths and savages just couldn't resist another opportunity to blow stuff up and watch more people die. So now we'll suffer the consequences of dropping down to #2 in a not so far off time. Edited July 6, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills 1 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said: But the sociopaths and savages just couldn't resist another opportunity to blow stuff up and watch more people die. So what was the alternative? Surrender Ukraine to Putin? He made it clear he was going to annex the eastern part of the country and install a Belarus-style puppet regime in Kiev. Where would that leave the Baltic states? Poland? That would have put us on the precipice of a NATO-obligated full-on war vs. expansionist Russia. The death and destruction (not to mention money spent) is a tragedy. But from a purely geopolitical/U.S.-centric standpoint, we are in a much stronger position today than we were before the Putin invasion. The whole world understands that Russia is unable to actually occupy territory outside of its borders in Europe. The laggards in Europe like Finland and Sweden are coming completely into the NATO fold. The Baltics are more secure today than they were at the start of 2022. Russia has been revealed as a paper tiger. It's still dangerous - an unstable dictator with nukes will always be - but it's imperialist ambitions have been effectively killed, and the rest of eastern Europe outside of puppet state Belarus is now more firmly western oriented than ever before. A colossal error on the part of Putin, but only an error because the West - yes, under Biden's leadership - proved the more united, effective, and committed force.
SoCal Deek Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 14 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: So what was the alternative? Surrender Ukraine to Putin? He made it clear he was going to annex the eastern part of the country and install a Belarus-style puppet regime in Kiev. Where would that leave the Baltic states? Poland? That would have put us on the precipice of a NATO-obligated full-on war vs. expansionist Russia. The death and destruction (not to mention money spent) is a tragedy. But from a purely geopolitical/U.S.-centric standpoint, we are in a much stronger position today than we were before the Putin invasion. The whole world understands that Russia is unable to actually occupy territory outside of its borders in Europe. The laggards in Europe like Finland and Sweden are coming completely into the NATO fold. The Baltics are more secure today than they were at the start of 2022. Russia has been revealed as a paper tiger. It's still dangerous - an unstable dictator with nukes will always be - but it's imperialist ambitions have been effectively killed, and the rest of eastern Europe outside of puppet state Belarus is now more firmly western oriented than ever before. A colossal error on the part of Putin, but only an error because the West - yes, under Biden's leadership - proved the more united, effective, and committed force. Don’t look now Frank but you sound EXACTLY like the crowd that got us mired in Viet Nam. Back then we had to stop the spread of communism. I’m not sure what the heck we thinking we’re stopping now.
ChiGoose Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 47 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: I know some of us prefer to rely on heroin addict English has-been comics, or stay-at-home-mom legal pundits without a law degree, of the guy who thought child torture was going on in the basementless basement of a DC pizza shop. I prefer the Council on Foreign Relations. They don’t even have to rely on the CFR if they don’t want to. Russia’s war crimes are very well documented and reported. They could find evidence if they even bothered trying to look: Ukraine: Apparent War Crimes in Russia-Controlled Areas (Human Rights Watch) U.N.-backed investigation finds evidence of Russian war crimes in Ukraine (PBS) Evidence of Russia’s War Crimes and Other Atrocities in Ukraine: Recent Reporting on Child Relocations (US State Department) Holding Russia Accountable for War Crimes Is Harder Than It Looks (Foreign Policy) Russia used "starvation tactics" against Ukraine civilians, investigators claim in new war crime allegation (CBS) Russian soldiers ‘forced me to dig my own grave’: US lawmakers hear accounts of alleged Russian war crimes (CNN) There have been 50,000 alleged war crimes in Ukraine. We worked to solve one (NPR) Ukraine War Crimes Investigations and Prosecutions (American Bar Association) If you do not believe that Russia has been committing war crimes than you either aren’t following the war at all or your partisan bias requires you to ignore the overwhelming evidence. 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 21 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Don’t look now Frank but you sound EXACTLY like the crowd that got us mired in Viet Nam. Back then we had to stop the spread of communism. I’m not sure what the heck we thinking we’re stopping now. We are working alongside Ukraine and our NATO allies to stop the expansion/reformation of the Russian Empire. Don't listen to me; listen to Putin himself. It's very easy to throw out the counterfactual: "so what if Ukraine had fallen in 2 weeks like Putin and his military advisors thought it would." Where would that leave the rest of the former Soviet sphere? Putin didn't stop at taking Crimea. He didn't stop at taking the majority Russian-speaking eastern provinces. What about all those Russian-speaking Latvians who need protection?
ChiGoose Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 9 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: We are working alongside Ukraine and our NATO allies to stop the expansion/reformation of the Russian Empire. Don't listen to me; listen to Putin himself. It's very easy to throw out the counterfactual: "so what if Ukraine had fallen in 2 weeks like Putin and his military advisors thought it would." Where would that leave the rest of the former Soviet sphere? Putin didn't stop at taking Crimea. He didn't stop at taking the majority Russian-speaking eastern provinces. What about all those Russian-speaking Latvians who need protection? It’s truly Bizzaro-World stuff that the party of Reagan is big mad that we’re spending a fraction of our military budget to absolutely decimate Russia’s army and ability to make war without putting US troops in the line of fire. 2
The Frankish Reich Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: It’s truly Bizzaro-World stuff that the party of Reagan is big mad that we’re spending a fraction of our military budget to absolutely decimate Russia’s army and ability to make war without putting US troops in the line of fire. Agreed. I guess I am kind of an old cold warrior. I agreed with Reagan that the Soviet Union was an evil empire. And to be honest, I don't see any difference between the end-stage Soviet Empire and the current Russian Empire.
SoCal Deek Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 17 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Agreed. I guess I am kind of an old cold warrior. I agreed with Reagan that the Soviet Union was an evil empire. And to be honest, I don't see any difference between the end-stage Soviet Empire and the current Russian Empire. Ya see? Everything has flipped. 1
L Ron Burgundy Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 46 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Don’t look now Frank but you sound EXACTLY like the crowd that got us mired in Viet Nam. Back then we had to stop the spread of communism. I’m not sure what the heck we thinking we’re stopping now. Don't look now Deek but you sound like Britain and France giving the Sudentenland to the Germans. How'd that work out? What would your preferred response by the US be? Zero involvement? Fine if so just curious. I get the Vietnam comparison but we're not sending troops and have no plan to unless something changes drastically. 1
SoCal Deek Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said: Don't look now Deek but you sound like Britain and France giving the Sudentenland to the Germans. How'd that work out? What would your preferred response by the US be? Zero involvement? Fine if so just curious. I get the Vietnam comparison but we're not sending troops and have no plan to unless something changes drastically. Hey Ron Since you asked, I would have stopped this before one Russian soldier set one foot onto Ukrainian soil. But that wouldn’t have given the military industrial complex the chance to soak the US taxpayer and wouldn’t have quenched the Left an excuse to punch Putin for their stupid and childish Hillary retribution l. 1
L Ron Burgundy Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Hey Ron Since you asked, I would have stopped this before one Russian soldier set one foot onto Ukrainian soil. But that wouldn’t have given the military industrial complex the chance to soak the US taxpayer and wouldn’t have quenched the Left an excuse to punch Putin for their stupid and childish Hillary retribution l. Oh man, were it possible that would be great. I'm just not sure what we could threaten Putin with that would convince him to alter a course he's decided on. The sanctions, arming Ukraine, im sure he knew our what our reaction would be if the war was not won quickly. I also don't think anyone saw this coming (meaning short term, we knew eventually it would escalate). As for Hillary retribution...cmon. you sound like Blitz saying the war isn't real. True retribution would be more like Bush Jr in Iraq.
ChiGoose Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 17 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Hey Ron Since you asked, I would have stopped this before one Russian soldier set one foot onto Ukrainian soil. But that wouldn’t have given the military industrial complex the chance to soak the US taxpayer and wouldn’t have quenched the Left an excuse to punch Putin for their stupid and childish Hillary retribution l. How exactly? 1 2
SoCal Deek Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said: Oh man, were it possible that would be great. I'm just not sure what we could threaten Putin with that would convince him to alter a course he's decided on. The sanctions, arming Ukraine, im sure he knew our what our reaction would be if the war was not won quickly. I also don't think anyone saw this coming (meaning short term, we knew eventually it would escalate). As for Hillary retribution...cmon. you sound like Blitz saying the war isn't real. True retribution would be more like Bush Jr in Iraq. No true retribution is what you see and read on here every single day. Open your fricking eyes. And it’s classic that you go with there’s nothing we could have done. Sure! Hilarious 1
Doc Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: How do you know there’s corruption in Ukraine? I thought we weren’t allowed to ask about it. There is none. Barry's Admin eliminated it when they fired Shokin... 2
The Frankish Reich Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 1 hour ago, L Ron Burgundy said: Don't look now Deek but you sound like Britain and France giving the Sudentenland to the Germans. Deek would've brought us peace in our time! But here we are stuck with demented fool Biden. 1 2
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