Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Tiberius]

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

It's impossible to lose something that you never had.

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

 

I wonder what Sununu’s moral compass says about America getting involved with similar wars and genocides in Africa.  
 

Oh.. that’s right… there’s no American interests on that continent.  
 

Actually.. let me correct myself, we have recently been involved in Yemen as the Saudis dropped American weapons on innocent civilians. 
 

Moral compass .. code for American financial interests at the expense of innocent lives, both Ukrainian and Russian, as we encourage a proxy war that Ukraine can’t win. 
 

Edited March 19, 2023 by SCBills

[Tommy Callahan]

Putin was in the disputed region yesterday as a big middle finger to everyone.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, redtail hawk said:

Yeah, Putin is losing this Risk game badly  and doesn't care about his armies.  He continues to roll the dice. As I recall, in Risk, you can no longer attack when there's only on army left in your country.  Putin isn't abiding the rules.  And, as in the game, it makes Russia vulnerable.  so there's that...

Morning Hawk…yep, if you only had one army in a country you can’t attack because you have to leave at least one back in the country you’re attacking from. I always loved that game, and haven’t played it in many years….but don’t start it after dinner. It takes forever to finish! 

[Doc]

31 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Morning Hawk…yep, if you only had one army in a country you can’t attack because you have to leave at least one back in the country you’re attacking from. I always loved that game, and haven’t played it in many years….but don’t start it after dinner. It takes forever to finish! 

 

It's easier and faster on a computer.  Used to play it in college with a bunch of guys after dinner on my Mac SE.  Almost always whoever won the right to go first went for Australia and won.

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I wonder what Sununu’s moral compass says about America getting involved with similar wars and genocides in Africa.  
 

Oh.. that’s right… there’s no American interests on that continent.  
 

Actually.. let me correct myself, we have recently been involved in Yemen as the Saudis dropped American weapons on innocent civilians. 
 

Moral compass .. code for American financial interests at the expense of innocent lives, both Ukrainian and Russian, as we encourage a proxy war that Ukraine can’t win. 
 

This is such a stupid argument 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

This is such a stupid argument 

Ok Dick Cheney.. Let’s revisit this next year .. when the war grinds on … when more innocent people have died.  
 

Your support is slipping… it won’t last forever.  

[Tiberius]

Just now, SCBills said:

Ok Dick Cheney.. Let’s revisit this next year .. when the war grinds on … when more innocent people have died.  
 

Your support is slipping… it won’t last forever.  

But Africa!! 🤣

[SCBills]

10 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

But Africa!! 🤣

If you can’t understand how America selling weapons to be dropped on civilians in Africa, as we ignore genocide and territorial disputes on that continent isn’t relevant when discussing our “moral” responsibility to Ukraine, then I can’t help you.  
 

We pick and choose where we involve ourselves, and it’s not due to our moral compass.   

[Tiberius]

17 minutes ago, SCBills said:

If you can’t understand how America selling weapons to be dropped on civilians in Africa, as we ignore genocide and territorial disputes on that continent isn’t relevant when discussing our “moral” responsibility to Ukraine, then I can’t help you.  
 

We pick and choose where we involve ourselves, and it’s not due to our moral compass.   

Stupid argument. 

 

First off, you are just complaining like an idiot. 

 

Secondly, of course we are pragmatic about where and when we do what we do.

 

Too bad we were not more clear headed 20 years ago when you guys (ya ya, you deny it now, all Conservatives deny they supported the obvious and predictable disaster then) when we invaded Iraq 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Stupid argument. 

 

First off, you are just complaining like an idiot. 

 

Secondly, of course we are pragmatic about where and when we do what we do.

 

Too bad we were not more clear headed 20 years ago when you guys (ya ya, you deny it now, all Conservatives deny they supported the obvious and predictable disaster then) when we invaded Iraq 

 

You could have just said that initially and saved yourself from looking like a fool.

[sherpa]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

 

Too bad we were not more clear headed 20 years ago when you guys (ya ya, you deny it now, all Conservatives deny they supported the obvious and predictable disaster then) when we invaded Iraq 

 

As did Biden support it, which you seemingly forget.

He was all in.

 

Biden was head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He was responsible for approving other members.

 

What did he say about the issue?

     "I do not believe this is a rush to war,” Biden said a few days before the vote. “I believe it is a march to peace and security. I believe that failure to overwhelmingly support this resolution is likely to enhance the prospects that war will occur …”

 

The point is that if one continuously blames a group for what is perceived to be a mistake, then blame them all. 

[B-Man]

😠

 

Putin Visits Mariupol—the Ukrainian City He Destroyed—to Pat Himself on the Back for Its Rebuild

 

 

https://redstate.com/bobhoge/2023/03/20/putin-visits-mariupol-the-ukrainian-city-he-destroyed-to-pat-himself-on-the-back-for-its-rebuild-n718831

 

 

.

[All_Pro_Bills]

23 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

As did Biden support it, which you seemingly forget.

He was all in.

 

Biden was head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He was responsible for approving other members.

 

What did he say about the issue?

     "I do not believe this is a rush to war,” Biden said a few days before the vote. “I believe it is a march to peace and security. I believe that failure to overwhelmingly support this resolution is likely to enhance the prospects that war will occur …”

 

The point is that if one continuously blames a group for what is perceived to be a mistake, then blame them all. 

Peace and security?  We've had neither since. 

[SoCal Deek]

On 3/19/2023 at 8:43 AM, Tiberius said:

Stupid argument. 

 

First off, you are just complaining like an idiot. 

 

Secondly, of course we are pragmatic about where and when we do what we do.

 

Too bad we were not more clear headed 20 years ago when you guys (ya ya, you deny it now, all Conservatives deny they supported the obvious and predictable disaster then) when we invaded Iraq 

Funny you say that because I just saw a NBC News report this morning on Iraq. And they were far from calling it a disaster. In fact, they highlighted the freedoms now enjoyed by the Iraqi people. 

[BillStime]

🎯

 

 

[Doc]

Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark struck a deal to run their 200+ advanced fighter jets as a single fleet, creating a new headache for Russia

[Tenhigh]

On 3/24/2023 at 10:47 AM, BillStime said:

🎯

 

 

If you are going to spread your Trumporn, at least try to keep it to the appropriate thread. You are interfering with Tibs's Ukraineporn...

[Coffeesforclosers]

Open Source Intelligence Lists of equipment destroyed, damaged, abandoned and captured.

 

Something's up. The last few days there's been a spike in losses on both sides when it comes to tanks, apcs, and IFVs. Russia's got the initiative right now, so my guess is that there's a Russian tank attack going on. And the attack achieved some sort of success, because Ukraine is committing tank units to stop it. And Ukraine's counter attack had some kind of success, because their tank losses are about 1/3 Russia's, and Russian losses include captured vehicles.  Oryx's twitter has regular updates. 

 

All this coincides with reports of a big tank battle around Adiivka. So those reports are probably true. The last time Russia committed masses of armored vehicles to an offensive was against Vuhledar, and it was a disaster for them. Adiivka is about half way between Vuhledar and Bakhmut, so punching through Ukrainian lines there threatens both places.  It also makes sense for Russia, since the Russian Army operates most of their armored vehicles, while Wagner is mostly an artillery/infantry force of expendable shock troops.

 

So Wagner keeps grinding itself to bits in Bakhmut while the Russian Army smashes tank units into Ukrainian defenses to the South. Where Russia hopes to create a breakthrough that forces Ukraine to pull back to avoid encirclement. And where Russian offensives take advantage of developed, relatively secure lines of supply through the LPR/DPR. Basically a replay of what Russia achieved at Popasna last year, which forced Ukraine out of the fortresses of Lysychansk and Sevierodonetsk as well.

 

I guess I understand why Ukraine wants to fight it out where they are, even though my casualty averse western sensibilites think its nuts from time to time. They know the terrain. They've got strong fortifications.  They can't assume they'll get back any towns they abandon. And they assume any population they give to the Russians will be filter camped and deported to Russia, or subjected to forced assimilation backed by intimidation and violence.