Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, sherpa said: See how much he wants to do this without AWACS just as an aside but did u see the malaysian Air disappearance doc on Netflix? AWACs were apparently around the plane before it disappeared off radar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 28 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: just as an aside but did u see the malaysian Air disappearance doc on Netflix? AWACs were apparently around the plane before it disappeared off radar... No, I have not seen it, nor will I. I read a "peer review" of it and it was non complimentary. Anyway, I think it is highly unlikely, (read ridiculous), that there were AWACS around Malaysia 370. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, sherpa said: No, I have not seen it, nor will I. I read a "peer review" of it and it was non complimentary. Anyway, I think it is highly unlikely, (read ridiculous), that there were AWACS around Malaysia 370. Cool, I was hoping for that. Russians or crazy pilot per your peers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) Wow, back to our regularly scheduled program: https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-03-16-23/h_21c44eb6ebcd7b3e6cdf34032bdaf26a “We have a dozen or so MIGS that we got in the 90s handed down from the German Democratic Republic and they are functional and play a part in the defense of our airspace. They are at the end of their operational life but are still functional,” Duda added. Edited March 16, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 15 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: Cool, I was hoping for that. Russians or crazy pilot per your peers? If you're speaking of this drone incident, in my view it's Russians being Russians. Their entire military is completely controlled from the ground, so I'd bet the regime wanted to get rid of the drone without expending a weapon, which would have been obvious. Not a bad idea to dump fuel on it, but it didn't work. Instead, the need to get really close resulted in contact, which I'm sure was not intended. They do really stupid crap all the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, sherpa said: If you're speaking of this drone incident, in my view it's Russians being Russians. Their entire military is completely controlled from the ground, so I'd bet the regime wanted to get rid of the drone without expending a weapon, which would have been obvious. Not a bad idea to dump fuel on it, but it didn't work. Instead, the need to get really close resulted in contact, which I'm sure was not intended. They do really stupid crap all the time. No, Malaysia 370. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: No, Malaysia 370. Oh. I think crazy pilot with well planned out scheme. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 hours ago, redtail hawk said: Still not clear on what you thought should have happened. Fight the war when Russia annexed Crimea? Who was going to fight. that happened within days of the Ukrainian revolution. with a western intern government? Ukraine? the west? Nato? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 1 hour ago, redtail hawk said: They're on mine...and NATO's. NATO is a big part of the conversation and impetus on both sides. We live in a small world, not a vacuum. Do u believe that some of economic dominance springs from our military? From the reserve currency and trade settlement status of the US dollar transferred to the US after WW2. Its quite a racket and something that's been passed down from empire to empire. Previously held by Britain through the Pound. Its the privilege that lets our country and government run huge trade and budget deficits while exporting most of the consequences to the rest of the world. Its why other central banks hold treasuries and what creates a big demand for dollars. Without this status the ability to run these huge deficits wouldn't exist absent major currency debasement and inflation. The military's role in this is to act as an enforcement arm of last resort after political and economic methods fail to convince renegade countries to comply with the program. Like efforts to make arrangements to settle trade in local currencies. That's the biggest threat China and Russia and others pose to the US. Their plans and efforts to development and initiate alternative trade settlement and currency systems. Which lowers demand for dollars and as a result will see each unit of currency lose a good percentage of its purchasing power. Control the value of money and you control the value of everything. That's the game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: From the reserve currency and trade settlement status of the US dollar transferred to the US after WW2. Its quite a racket and something that's been passed down from empire to empire. Previously held by Britain through the Pound. Its the privilege that lets our country and government run huge trade and budget deficits while exporting most of the consequences to the rest of the world. Its why other central banks hold treasuries and what creates a big demand for dollars. Without this status the ability to run these huge deficits wouldn't exist absent major currency debasement and inflation. The military's role in this is to act as an enforcement arm of last resort after political and economic methods fail to convince renegade countries to comply with the program. Like efforts to make arrangements to settle trade in local currencies. That's the biggest threat China and Russia and others pose to the US. Their plans and efforts to development and initiate alternative trade settlement and currency systems. Which lowers demand for dollars and as a result will see each unit of currency lose a good percentage of its purchasing power. Control the value of money and you control the value of everything. That's the game. Read Creature from Jekyle Island? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 And now Poland is committing jets to Ukraine. Putin might want to invade them now over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 30 minutes ago, Doc said: And now Poland is committing jets to Ukraine. Putin might want to invade them now over it. Contain your excitement comrade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) 20 hours ago, redtail hawk said: They're on mine...and NATO's. NATO is a big part of the conversation and impetus on both sides. We live in a small world, not a vacuum. Do u believe that some of economic dominance springs from our military? Europe is a big place. If conflict spreads let those governments vote to send their forces into the battle first. I think that's fair. In the case of Poland let them commit a couple 100 thousand troops, incur causalities, and then do a temperature check for their enthusiasm. For America, its a matter of priorities. Our government should worry less about the sovereignty of places like Poland and worry more about public safety in places like Portland. Representatives from both political parties sent to Washington that agree on nothing domestically are in almost complete lockstep when it comes to prosecuting all types of foreign military adventures. I'm hard-pressed to name one of these past interventions that could be called a qualified success. There's no reason to expect this will end any differently. Public support for unconditional escalation or direct involvement In Ukraine is in the minority yet Washington ignores the wishes of the people they claim to represent. Why are these representatives ignoring the desires of their citizens to proceed with caution and what other master do they serve? With that, its unacceptable for officials to demand our military personnel lay their lives on the line to engage and support conflict half-way around the world while they ignore problems in the hometowns, cities, and communities of these soldiers. And to make matters worse, President Nero fiddles away while his administration pursues and champions the implementation of social and economic policies that establish mediocrity as the new standard for American performance. A country so eager it seems to fight yet close to 3/4 of military eligible citizens cannot mentally or physically qualify for service. Add to this using political tests "weeding out" experienced enlisted personnel and officers from the forces. Hence the need to lower standards all around. If you wanted to weaken and emasculate America no foreign power engaging in some grand conspiracy could have a better plan than Biden's crew. Edited March 17, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 22 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Europe is a big place. If conflict spreads let those governments vote to send their forces into the battle first. I think that's fair. In the case of Poland let them commit a couple 100 thousand troops, incur causalities, and then do a temperature check for their enthusiasm. For America, its a matter of priorities. Our government should worry less about the sovereignty of places like Poland and worry more about public safety in places like Portland. As members of NATO, we don't have the option to avoid a response if Poland's sovereignty is threatened by some stupid Russian adventure, which they have no conventional warfare ability to successfully conclude. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, sherpa said: As members of NATO, we don't have the option to avoid a response if Poland's sovereignty is threatened by some stupid Russian adventure, which they have no conventional warfare ability to successfully conclude. There's always a choice. We can refuse to fulfill the terms of the agreement if something isn't to our liking. Otherwise, that implies the Constitutional powers of Congress to declare war have been transferred though some arrangement to NATO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm hard-pressed to name one of these past interventions that could be called a qualified success. There's no reason to expect this will end any differently It has already "ended" differently. We and Ukraine have proven a global enemy weak and severely weakened its power possibly removing a tyrant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Over the past year Putin has yet to move 100 miles inside Ukraine and now he’s taking on Poland? Sure! 🙄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said: There's always a choice. We can refuse to fulfill the terms of the agreement if something isn't to our liking. Otherwise, that implies the Constitutional powers of Congress to declare war have been transferred though some arrangement to NATO. Failing to come to the defense of NATO allies would be politically devastating for the US. 42 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Over the past year Putin has yet to move 100 miles inside Ukraine and now he’s taking on Poland? Sure! 🙄 No chance he even tries a minor incursion into Poland. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Doc said: Failing to come to the defense of NATO allies would be politically devastating for the US. No chance he even tries a minor incursion into Poland. It’s clear that many of the war mongers on here have never played the game of Risk. After getting your armies pounded by many of the rolls of the dice on one front, you quickly learn that attacking another one is a terrible strategy for anything other than a quick exit from the table. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: It has already "ended" differently. We and Ukraine have proven a global enemy weak and severely weakened its power possibly removing a tyrant. No, it hasn't ended yet. While you can claim this has weakened Russia, its clearly weakened America too, perhaps to a greater degree. The conflict has driven Russia into a growing alliance with China along with elevating China to the status of potential "peace broker". Xi is looking to arbitrate a peace deal between Zelensky and Putin, dangling significant promises of economic and political cooperation without the Americans at the table. Individual talks with each leader to be followed by a sit down of the parties. How big a kick in the balls would that be? We do all the heavy lifting and China swoops in to be the hero. Sanctions are ineffective and hurt the US consumer and business more than they did Russia. Add to that Saudi Arabia drifting closer to Russia/China. Inroads into Africa, Asia, and the Middle East by both countries. And unknown to most, China has entered deals and cooperative arrangements and integration with almost every country is South America. All while we're distracted here. Our influence and standing in the world isn't growing, its shrinking at a quick pace. As a nation we're weaker today and nobody seems to see it or care to do anything about it other than engage in military adventures. While that still sells among the ranks of the captive European leadership the remainder of the world is getting tired of this act. Almost everyone in any official capacity in Washington appears oblivious to the situation or has any answers other than conflict. Following the directives of their masters in endless wars establishment. The people in charge are fools and pointing out that truth is a greater act of patriotism than blindly following these idiots into the abyss. But that's where we're heading right now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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