Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 minute ago, Buffarukus said:

 

you do think this is a movie. of coarse it doesnt go away but it also doesnt persist or escalate. look at north and south korea. should the south have gone all or nothing. every last man woman and child should fight for all of korea or make a agreement in which the south can/has prospered and better prepared for other agression.

 

we just disagree. like i said i hope you are ready to not just talk the talk because i dont think Ukraine will ever get what it is they say is thier objective without outside manpower..not just logistics. they are VASTLY out numbered so your sacrifice will be necessary.

I'm in my 60's.  I can pilot drones.  Can possibly help with intelligence.  Be proud and happy to.  Korea was a mistake but trump loves that guy.

[Buffarukus]

10 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

there are no Americans officially fighting in Ukraine under our flag.  the others I'm fine with.  Not my kids and not forced.   t's the best deal in a terrible situation

 

so Ukrainians should fight for 100% of their land back and if not...even when all hope is lost never surrrender. if thats the case then losing a small portion was not a good compromise rather then the entire extinction of the Ukrainian culture and people as we know it and all this talk your not ready to defend it yourself if it comes to that?

 

2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

I'm in my 60's.  I can pilot drones.  Can possibly help with intelligence.  Be proud and happy to.  Korea was a mistake but trump loves that guy.

 

ok your kids. thats usually how war goes. those with the most passion are not the ones who are sacrificed. your adherence to  no compromise makes that decision for them. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by Buffarukus

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 minute ago, Buffarukus said:

 

so Ukrainians should fight for 100% of their land back and if not...even when all hope is lost never surrrender. if thats the case then losing a small portion was not a good compromise rather then the entire extinction of the Ukrainian culture and people as we know it and all this talk your not ready to defend it yourself if it comes to that?

 

news flash.  Russia is losing the proxy war.  soon their economy will be shite and the people will revolt:  Rasputin- The people are revolting.

As are you Rasputin.

[Buffarukus]

10 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

news flash.  Russia is losing the proxy war.  soon their economy will be shite and the people will revolt:  Rasputin- The people are revolting.

As are you Rasputin.

 

if you say so. i hope thats true but from experts i listen to russia has manpower 9 to 1 and will continue the onslaught. they are also teaming up with china india and the saudis to use their own currency and destroy the comfort we have lived our entire lives in with the dominance of the petro us dollar. so your not only willing to put our lives at risk but the economy as well. if you think this ends with russia losing and going quitely into hiding i tend to believe they see nato as a existential threat. if they go down then they hit the big red button and take the world with them.

 

ill take peace.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Buffarukus

[Joe Ferguson forever]

5 minutes ago, Buffarukus said:

 

if you say so. i hope thats true but from experts i listen to russia has manpower 9 to 1 and will continue the onslaught. they are also teaming up with china india and the saudis to use their own currency and destroy the comfort we have lived our entire lives in with the dominance of the petro us dollar. so you not only is our lives at risk but so is the US dollar. if you think this ends with russia losing and going quitely into hiding i tend to believe they see nato as a existential threat. if they go down then they hit the big red button and take the world with them.

 

ill take peace.

yup, suicide is an option for losers.  I don't think they'll do it but if we back off, what happens the next time they push too far.  History tells us.  Chamberlain was a pu$$y moron and the entire world paid for it.

Edited February 25, 2023 by redtail hawk

[ChiGoose]

32 minutes ago, Buffarukus said:

 

so ill ask you the same. should they fight to every man woman child is lost instead of making a compromise with peace or is that the correct coarse of action. if they are losing badly and could have made a agreement are you ready to send your kids or yourself? seems american leadership is willing to do that so this is not a hypothetical.

 

Let me ask you this:

 

If China invaded the United States, took a good chunk of our territory before stalling out, was torturing and murdering civilians, instituted a policy of kidnapping American kids and taking them to re-education camps so that they can be brainwashed into thinking that China is superior and the US really doesn’t exist, would you be willing to cede a parts of the US to them? Would you condemn US citizens to indoctrination, torture, and death?

 

If China had stalled out and the US was poised to take the upper hand and potentially regain the occupied territories, would you instead sue for peace?

 

Because I sure as hell wouldn’t. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by ChiGoose

[Buffarukus]

3 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

yup, suicide is an option for losers.  I don't think they'll do it but if we back off, what happens the next time they push too far.  History tells us.  Chamberlain was a pu$$y moron and the entire world paid for it.

 

i gave a good example with korea. you may lose the battle but you live and regroup tommorrow. im not saying "back off" ukraine didnt ask for this. you have me confused but dont let the US who is basically using the ukrainian citizens as proxies or anyone else say its all or nothing. i dont know what a agreement would be because its never even mentioned so maybe your right but dont EVER take compromises to end this off the table so there can be time to regain any losses in the future. if we dont "back off" there may not be a next time for anything..ever.

 

you have 60 years under your belt. i think our kids deserve the same opportunity. ongoing war always lessens that chance so dont be so hard headed.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

10 minutes ago, Buffarukus said:

 

i gave a good example with korea. you may lose the battle but you live and regroup tommorrow. im not saying "back off" ukraine didnt ask for this. you have me confused but dont let the US who is basically using the ukrainian citizens as proxies or anyone else say its all or nothing. i dont know what a agreement would be because its never even mentioned so maybe your right but dont EVER take compromises to end this off the table so there can be time to regain any losses in the future. if we dont "back off" there may not be a next time for anything..ever.

 

you have 60 years under your belt. i think our kids deserve the same opportunity. ongoing war always lessens that chance so dont be so hard headed.

fair enough.  keep compromises in play.  Roosevelt altho a revered Dem, is not a hero of mine, however.  He could have ended Communist Russia and he didn't.  The baltic states would never have been in play.  Stalin's balls could have been castrated.  We could and should do the same to putin.  The knife is pretty close.  This is that moment in history, replayed.  Let's win this time.

Edited February 25, 2023 by redtail hawk

[Buffarukus]

6 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Let me ask you this:

 

If China invaded the United States, took a good chunk of our territory before stalling out, was torturing and murdering civilians, instituted a policy of kidnapping American kids and taking them to re-education camps so that they can be brainwashed into thinking that China is superior and the US really doesn’t exist, would you be willing to cede a parts of the US to them? Would you condemn US citizens to indoctrination, torture, and death?

 

If China had stalled out and the US was poised to take the upper hand and potentially regain the occupied territories, would you instead sue for peace?

 

Because I sure as hell wouldn’t. 

 

there hasnt even been any disclosure of peace. boris johnson flew out as fast as he could to disrupt peace talks between the two early on BEFORE so much extra death torture and distruction took place which is pretty insane since his people lives were not in direct consideration.

 

your under the assumption where china "stalled" and we are about to turn the tide. if the us was completely dep on another nation and we were against a nuclear arsenal with a mad man with one press of a button could wipe everyone out including those that have supported us then i seriously would have to concider peace talks. its not like we could not take back our country and fight in other ways. Ukraine and russia have been at war ling before the invasion. bombing raids in crimea has that ever stopped. so this hatred and war is just a escalation of the things your saying. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 minutes ago, Buffarukus said:

 

there hasnt even been any disclosure of peace. boris johnson flew out as fast as he could to disrupt peace talks between the two early on BEFORE so much extra death torture and distruction took place which is pretty insane since his people lives were not in direct consideration.

 

your under the assumption where china "stalled" and we are about to turn the tide. if the us was completely dep on another nation and we were against a nuclear arsenal with a mad man with one press of a button could wipe everyone out including those that have supported us then i seriously would have to concider peace talks. its not like we could not take back our country and fight in other ways. Ukraine and russia have been at war ling before the invasion. bombing raids in crimea has that ever stopped. so this hatred and war is just a escalation of the things your saying. 

and a big "HUH"?

[Buffarukus]

5 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

fair enough.  keep compromises in play.  Roosevelt altho a revered Dem, is not a hero of mine, however.  He could have ended Communist Russia and he didn't.  The baltic states would never have been in play.  Stalin's balls could have been castrated.  We could and should do the same to putin.  The knife is pretty close.  This is that moment in history, replayed.  Let's win this time.

 

hey if that happens great but you are just more optimistic then me. its not us that are on any precipice of victory. its Ukrainians fighting. are you suggesting they somehow fight off russia and also push into their country to "end this". i do agree assasination of putin is another way to end this but im sorry to say when your dealing with a nuclear power there is no ending dictators unless you want to go with them. either way russia stays and you pray putins assassin did it to become nato friendly..or because they think he is weak and want to press buttons themselves.

 

its a truley deadly game you want to play my friend regardless which way it goes and i highly doubt after russians see their own body bags coming back that a NATO friendly dictator rises from putins ashes.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 minute ago, Buffarukus said:

 

hey if that happens great but you are just more optimistic then me. its not us that are on any precipice of victory. its Ukrainians fighting. are you suggesting they somehow fight off russia and also push into their country to "end this". i do agree assasination of putin is another way to end this but im sorry to say when your dealing with a nuclear power there is no ending dictators unless you want to go with them. either way russia stays and you pray putins assassin did it to become nato friendly..or because they think he is weak and want to press buttons themselves.

 

its a truley deadly game you want to play my friend regardless which way it goes and i highly doubt after russians see their own body bags coming back that a NATO friendly dictator rises from putins ashes.

it's a truly deadly game now.  Ukraine will not finish the job.  We will need to...hopefully covertly, like they tried to do here.

[Buffarukus]

4 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

it's a truly deadly game now.  Ukraine will not finish the job.  We will need to...hopefully covertly, like they tried to do here.

 

well the funny thing about proxy wars is you never know what the outcome will be. history showed us as we did the exact same thing against the exact same enemy and got  planes flown into our buildings and a 20 year war for our efforts. 

 

i may not agree with your outlook but i certainly hope your right for my kids sake. have a good night.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

4 minutes ago, Buffarukus said:

 

well the funny thing about proxy wars is you never know what the outcome will be. history showed us as we did the exact same thing against the exact same enemy and got  planes flown into our buildings and a 20 year war for our efforts. 

 

i may not agree with your outlook but i certainly hope your right for my kids sake. have a good night.

sometimes you don't win.  Bad coaching/management is often to blame.  Should we give up on beating the Chiefs to get to the the Super Bowl?  trite but apt.

Edited February 25, 2023 by redtail hawk

[ChiGoose]

22 minutes ago, Buffarukus said:

 

there hasnt even been any disclosure of peace. boris johnson flew out as fast as he could to disrupt peace talks between the two early on BEFORE so much extra death torture and distruction took place which is pretty insane since his people lives were not in direct consideration.

 

your under the assumption where china "stalled" and we are about to turn the tide. if the us was completely dep on another nation and we were against a nuclear arsenal with a mad man with one press of a button could wipe everyone out including those that have supported us then i seriously would have to concider peace talks. its not like we could not take back our country and fight in other ways. Ukraine and russia have been at war ling before the invasion. bombing raids in crimea has that ever stopped. so this hatred and war is just a escalation of the things your saying. 

So any time a nuclear power wants to take territory and kill civilians, we should just let them? Let’s just carve out the world for Russia and China so they can take whatever want and we’ll just come to the “negotiations” with our tails between our legs. 

[Buffarukus]

16 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

So any time a nuclear power wants to take territory and kill civilians, we should just let them? Let’s just carve out the world for Russia and China so they can take whatever want and we’ll just come to the “negotiations” with our tails between our legs. 

 

no you dont let them. you fight as the Ukrainians have. but when it comes to being totally dependant on money and logistics. coupled with being undermanned you look at the situation your in. are the sanctions crippling there ability to fight? are we able to withstand the onslaught. WHAT ARE THE WAYS TO BRING US TO PEACE? 

 

that all goes into account.

 

what i wouldnt do is demand no peace unless we are 100% the way this was and i want someone else to pay for all the weopons and i want billions of other citizens dollars no questions asked and no accountability for any of it and i want it to continue as long as it takes while also silencing the media in my country and destroying all my political opponents while accidentally bombing a nato ally and lying that it was not us while also working with acctual nazis while also...

 

do you get my point.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Buffarukus

[All_Pro_Bills]

3 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

So any time a nuclear power wants to take territory and kill civilians, we should just let them? Let’s just carve out the world for Russia and China so they can take whatever want and we’ll just come to the “negotiations” with our tails between our legs. 

No.  Our "bi-partisan" government is incapable of negotiating and resorts  to armed conflicts (amazingly war is the only thing dems and reps agree on) which generally result in defeat and a consistent loss of global influence.  That's what we do. 

In case you haven't noticed this has all driven Russia and China along with several other "enemies" closer than they would be otherwise.  Look around.  The US empire is in decline.  Broke but still spending big. You should be more worried about the personal implications of that loss of power and influence rather than people on the other side of the world.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

25 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

No.  Our "bi-partisan" government is incapable of negotiating and resorts  to armed conflicts (amazingly war is the only thing dems and reps agree on) which generally result in defeat and a consistent loss of global influence.  That's what we do. 

In case you haven't noticed this has all driven Russia and China along with several other "enemies" closer than they would be otherwise.  Look around.  The US empire is in decline.  Broke but still spending big. You should be more worried about the personal implications of that loss of power and influence rather than people on the other side of the world.

so what's the answer.  A madman is trying to acquire Eastern Europe and we are supposed to yawn?  If he were attacking Israel, would you feel differently?  cuz you know, that's really important to the christian nationalists...We would negotiate but Putin needs to save face even if it means destroying the world.  he needs dead.  given the complexity of the issue, I'm sure the MAGA's have a simple solution.  My bet is ignore or appease.  Tucker will fill you in.

Edited February 25, 2023 by redtail hawk

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, redtail hawk said:

so what's the answer.  A madman is trying to acquire Eastern Europe and we are supposed to yawn?  If he were attacking Israel, would you feel differently?  cuz you know, that's really important to the christian nationalists...We would negotiate but Putin needs to save face even if it means destroying the world.  he needs dead.  given the complexity of the issue, I'm sure the MAGA's have a simple solution.  My bet is ignore or appease.  Tucker will fill you in.

Hawk, I’ve mentioned this many times on here over the last year, but if you look at recent history (post WW2) which is pretty much all the history that anyone alive has lived through, these ‘wars’ have proven to be an utter waste of time, treasure, and lives. The civilized global community has moved almost nonstop from the foreign theater to foreign theater engaging in conflict after conflict and there’ve been no significant border changes to come out of any of them. There REALLY has to be a better way. On that at least, I hope we can agree. Yes? 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Hawk, I’ve mentioned this many times on here over the last year, but if you look at recent history (post WW2) which is pretty much all the history that anyone alive has lived through, these ‘wars’ have proven to be an utter waste of time, treasure, and lives. The civilized global community has moved almost nonstop from the foreign theater to foreign theater engaging in conflict after conflict and there’ve been no significant border changes to come out of any of them. There REALLY has to be a better way. On that at least, I hope we can agree. Yes? 

yes, but you shouldn't discount WW2