BillStime Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 On 2/18/2023 at 10:52 AM, All_Pro_Bills said: The idea that Washington's support of Ukraine going to facilitate regime change in Moscow by replacing Putin with some compliant leader willing to do the bidding of the US and the West is a neocon fantasy at this point in the conflict. The biggest danger to the world from this point forward will come when it's obviously and unavoidably clear that one side or the other has a clear advantage and path to victory. At that point, the risk is what might the "losing" side do to avoid or delay defeat? In the case of Russia, a potential to deploy and use nuclear weapons and in the case of the US/NATO any decision to directly enter the conflict. Which would then eventually lead to the risk of the nuclear option. Either way I find it amazing how officials and media everywhere are whistling past the graveyard downplaying and dismissing these risks as the propose and commit to escalations. Where else do they think this is going to lead? Is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: So Putin is going to start WWIII by directly attacking a NATO country? And he’s going to do that so he can offload a few domestic criminals? Sure…sounds correct. I have a WSJ paywall so I don't know the details but why do u imagine they published a front page story on this? Prolly cuz they're concerned about the economic impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 “anti war” protest full of pro-Russia idiots what a surprise 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Roundybout said: “anti war” protest full of pro-Russia idiots what a surprise Wouldn’t be surprised if Jill Stein was there. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Hmmmmmmm. U.S. "concerned" China is "considering providing lethal support to Russia," Blinken says In an interview with “Face the Nation” moderator Margaret Brennan, Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the U.S. is concerned China may consider stepping up its support of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. https://www.cbsnews.com/video/u-s-concerned-china-is-considering-providing-lethal-support-to-russia-blinken-says/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 2 hours ago, redtail hawk said: I have a WSJ paywall so I don't know the details but why do u imagine they published a front page story on this? Prolly cuz they're concerned about the economic impact. I stopped trying to wonder why the media publishes stories a long time ago. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Roundybout said: “anti war” protest full of pro-Russia idiots what a surprise That's what people brainwashed by government war propaganda have said about others questioning the merits of every war. Unless you are 100 percent obedient then you're helping the enemy. In a word that's stupid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 I have no hope that every US dollar will be spent efficiently, and I hope that the current US Administration has the discipline to monitor these things, but again, I doubt it. Still, the Russian strategy was counting on two things: 1. A rapid takeover and occupation of Ukraine soil, and overthrow of the Ukraine regime. 2. A failure of NATO and the rest of the western world to be willing to hold the course in opposition. We are probably near the tipping point of the second hope, and I think we should commit to seeing it through. Russia is in a deep hurt. They can't do this forever. If we can hold on and continue to support them, in all reasonable military ways, we will end this. If not, we are bound to fight it again. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) “Putin has earned a failing grade to date,” said Petraeus, who commanded the US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. “Let’s recall that the first and most important task of a strategic leader is to ‘get the big ideas right’ — that is, to get the overall strategy and fundamental decisions right. Putin clearly has failed abysmally in that task, resulting in a war that has made him and his country a pariah, set back the Russian economy by a decade or more (losing many of Russia’s best and brightest, and prompting over 1,200 western companies to leave Russia or reduce operations there), done catastrophic damage to the Russian military and its reputation and put his legacy in serious jeopardy.” from CNN Now, if he'd just die but I fear he's RasPUTIN reincarnate. Edited February 20, 2023 by redtail hawk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 4 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: That's what people brainwashed by government war propaganda have said about others questioning the merits of every war. Unless you are 100 percent obedient then you're helping the enemy. In a word that's stupid. Putin loves the isolationists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 Nice!!! "Joseph Biden, welcome to Kyiv!" Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskky wrote on his official Telegram channel. "Your visit is an extremely important sign of support for all Ukrainians." Start the day smarter. Get all the news you need in your inbox each morning. The visit was kept secret because of security concerns. It was also symbolic because it comes as Ukraine has been intensely lobbying the U.S. for more weapons to help it fight back against Russia's aggressions as the war enters an uncertain new phase. There are few, if any, examples of U.S. presidents traveling to an active war zone where there is no U.S. troop presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 Biden was spotted walking with Zelenskky outside St. Michael’s, a gold-domed monastery in Kyiv. A short while later, air raid sirens blared across Ukraine's capital. The cathedral’s complex of sky-blue and golden buildings have long been a symbol of Ukrainian resistance. In 2013 its priests gave shelter to pro-Western protesters who had been beaten by police forces under the authority of a Kremlin-backed president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 9 hours ago, Tiberius said: Putin loves the isolationists That's something useful idiots say when they want to shut down free thinking citizens and avoid any reasoned discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: That's something useful idiots say when they want to shut down free thinking citizens and avoid any reasoned discussion. No, it’s just the truth. Putin would love it if Biden was a cowardly isolation Good thing he isn’t!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 How long was Vietnam? end goal? some DMZ? Korea? Now Ukraine. whats the end goal? a DMZ at the pre 2014 border? at the disputed region? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Chris farley said: How long was Vietnam? end goal? some DMZ? Korea? Now Ukraine. whats the end goal? a DMZ at the pre 2014 border? at the disputed region? How about we start by getting Trumps buddy Putin to stop terrrorizing the population of Ukraine with murderous attacks from the sky? That’s a good start, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: How about we start by getting Trumps buddy Putin to stop terrorizing the population of Ukraine with murderous attacks from the sky? That’s a good start, right? all good battle plans have an outcome or goal. without that, its just a military boondoggle. like Vietnam or Korea. another Afghanistan for us to just abandon in a decade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Chris farley said: all good battle plans have an outcome or goal. without that, its just a military boondoggle. like Vietnam or Korea. another Afghanistan for us to just abandon in a decade? Putin loses, that’s the plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, Chris farley said: How long was Vietnam? end goal? some DMZ? Korea? Now Ukraine. whats the end goal? a DMZ at the pre 2014 border? at the disputed region? Kick Russia in the nuts, get them out of disputed territory and return the Donbas to Ukraine. The world then sees they are not a threat for anything, Putin is overthrown and Russia gets a leader that helps them join the modern age. Well, a guy can dream anyways! 58 minutes ago, aristocrat said: So? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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