Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Tenhigh]

Tibs, so you are saying we should give Ukraine nukes to defend themselves?  Or at least enough money to buy some?

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Tenhigh said:

Tibs, so you are saying we should give Ukraine nukes to defend themselves?  Or at least enough money to buy some?

 

 

Tibs is saying we should have a policy of providing an unlimited amount of aid to Ukraine without regards for conditions or consequences or the impact on our national interests, budget, or other needs, and that anyone objecting to this policy or suggesting there should be clear objectives and goals tied to aid should be ostracized and labeled as an ally of Putin as no descent or debate about this can be tolerated by the establishment.  

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Tibs is saying we should have a policy of providing an unlimited amount of aid to Ukraine without regards for conditions or consequences or the impact on our national interests, budget, or other needs, and that anyone objecting to this policy or suggesting there should be clear objectives and goals tied to aid should be ostracized and labeled as an ally of Putin as no descent or debate about this can be tolerated by the establishment.  

Close….and what McCarthy is saying is that the aid better not be lining the pockets of traditionally corrupt Ukrainian officials with little to none of it seeing the battlefield. Seems pretty darn reasonable to me. I’ve grown accustomed to my tax dollars being burned in the fireplace of my own corrupt government. I’m much less inclined to have it be tossed in a fireplace halfway across the world. 

[Tiberius]

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Tibs is saying we should have a policy of providing an unlimited amount of aid to Ukraine without regards for conditions or consequences or the impact on our national interests, budget, or other needs, and that anyone objecting to this policy or suggesting there should be clear objectives and goals tied to aid should be ostracized and labeled as an ally of Putin as no descent or debate about this can be tolerated by the establishment.  

I'm not saying we should restrict or cut aid to Ukraine. The GOP is though. And you are happy about that. 

3 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

Tibs, so you are saying we should give Ukraine nukes to defend themselves?  Or at least enough money to buy some?

 

 

I never said that

 

McCarthy knows the base wants Ukraine to suffer the Russians with less support from us. I mean the Russians are just murdering people because Putin wants to murder people. GOP seems upset we are helping these people defend themselves from that monster

 

You think Putin is a mass murdering terrorists, right? 

[SoCal Deek]

23 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I'm not saying we should restrict or cut aid to Ukraine. The GOP is though. And you are happy about that. 

I never said that

 

McCarthy knows the base wants Ukraine to suffer the Russians with less support from us. I mean the Russians are just murdering people because Putin wants to murder people. GOP seems upset we are helping these people defend themselves from that monster

 

You think Putin is a mass murdering terrorists, right? 

Let me see if I have this correct: You don’t like Putin. Is that right? 

[Tenhigh]

56 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

I never said that

 

McCarthy knows the base wants Ukraine to suffer the Russians with less support from us. I mean the Russians are just murdering people because Putin wants to murder people. GOP seems upset we are helping these people defend themselves from that monster

 

You think Putin is a mass murdering terrorists, right? 

You want to give Ukraine unlimited aid, right?  Why not nukes? Or the wherewithal to get them?

[Tiberius]

28 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

You want to give Ukraine unlimited aid, right?  Why not nukes? Or the wherewithal to get them?

I never said that. 

 

The GOP wants to strangle their war effort, though. That's been stated in no certain terms. 

 

The Pro-Putin crowd loves that. 

 

BTW, is Putin a mass murdering terrorist? 

[Tenhigh]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I never said that. 

 

The GOP wants to strangle their war effort, though. That's been stated in no certain terms. 

 

The Pro-Putin crowd loves that. 

 

BTW, is Putin a mass murdering terrorist? 

Totally. Do you believe that Ukraine should have nukes to defend itself against that mass murdering terrorist?  Yes or no?

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

Totally. Do you believe that Ukraine should have nukes to defend itself against that mass murdering terrorist?  Yes or no?

I'd have to give that one some thought. Never thought about it before. 

 

What is your opinion, since you brought it up? 

[Tenhigh]

My opinion is we absolutely should not supply them with nukes. Are you seriously considering it?

[sherpa]

10 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I'd have to give that one some thought. Never thought about it before. 

 

Absolutely, totally absurd.

[Tiberius]

46 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Absolutely, totally absurd.

Yes 

[Tenhigh]

58 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Yes 

Just to be clear, are you saying that the idea of giving Ukraine nukes to deter the Russians is absurd?

[Tiberius]

9 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

Just to be clear, are you saying that the idea of giving Ukraine nukes to deter the Russians is absurd?

Just to be clear, why are you asking? What's the point? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

14 hours ago, Tiberius said:

I'm not saying we should restrict or cut aid to Ukraine. The GOP is though. And you are happy about that.

The majority of Americans believe there should be limits on aid.  And the issue doesn't poll well as a major concern for prospective voters in the mid-terms.  Something like 5% of people polled think Ukraine is a major concern.  But you disagree and apparently so does the administration. 

The problem is this conflict has consequences to the US and the world beyond the desire to support Ukraine and weaken Russia.  Its has caused major issues in the energy and food markets.  It has consequences for alliances and arrangements between the US and other countries by asking many to put their national interests at risk for no benefit to themselves.  It has facilitated what might evolve into a global depression.  When these consequences are weighed against the pursuit of the administration agenda a basic cost vs. benefit evaluation makes it clear the trouble is more than its worth. 

While you might be "all in" on committing an infinite amount of funding and resources for the war an overwhelming majority of Americans are not.

[Tiberius]

15 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The majority of Americans believe there should be limits on aid.  And the issue doesn't poll well as a major concern for prospective voters in the mid-terms.  Something like 5% of people polled think Ukraine is a major concern.  But you disagree and apparently so does the administration. 

The problem is this conflict has consequences to the US and the world beyond the desire to support Ukraine and weaken Russia.  Its has caused major issues in the energy and food markets.  It has consequences for alliances and arrangements between the US and other countries by asking many to put their national interests at risk for no benefit to themselves.  It has facilitated what might evolve into a global depression.  When these consequences are weighed against the pursuit of the administration agenda a basic cost vs. benefit evaluation makes it clear the trouble is more than its worth. 

While you might be "all in" on committing an infinite amount of funding and resources for the war an overwhelming majority of Americans are not.

And appeasement has consequences too. Putin  very much hopes people don't remember that. Xi looking over at Taiwan also hopes people don't realize that  

[SoCal Deek]

48 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The majority of Americans believe there should be limits on aid.  And the issue doesn't poll well as a major concern for prospective voters in the mid-terms.  Something like 5% of people polled think Ukraine is a major concern.  But you disagree and apparently so does the administration. 

The problem is this conflict has consequences to the US and the world beyond the desire to support Ukraine and weaken Russia.  Its has caused major issues in the energy and food markets.  It has consequences for alliances and arrangements between the US and other countries by asking many to put their national interests at risk for no benefit to themselves.  It has facilitated what might evolve into a global depression.  When these consequences are weighed against the pursuit of the administration agenda a basic cost vs. benefit evaluation makes it clear the trouble is more than its worth. 

While you might be "all in" on committing an infinite amount of funding and resources for the war an overwhelming majority of Americans are not.

Great overview. So how about we just do what McCarthy said and put in some effort to make sure there’s a measure of accountability for the tax dollars we’re shoveling into this conflict? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

33 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

And appeasement has consequences too. Putin  very much hopes people don't remember that. Xi looking over at Taiwan also hopes people don't realize that  

The problem with that argument is that appeasement or warfare are not the only options.  The best option would be negotiating a mutually beneficial peace that addresses the needs and concerns of all parties.  

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The problem with that argument is that appeasement or warfare are not the only options.  The best option would be negotiating a mutually beneficial peace that addresses the needs and concerns of all parties.  

Putin, like Hitler before him, will not negotiate. You don't know that? 

[Tenhigh]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Just to be clear, why are you asking? What's the point? 

I want to know how far you are willing to go in your support of Ukraine. Do you support providing them with nukes? Its a simple question.