SoCal Deek Posted October 12, 2022 Posted October 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said: Given how wrong you are about the events running up to the war, I think the replies to you have been charitable. They certainly don't merit this whiny crap. Oh I see. So in your version what we’re witnessing is the GOOD outcome? Excellent
L Ron Burgundy Posted October 12, 2022 Posted October 12, 2022 4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: Oh I see. So in your version what we’re witnessing is the GOOD outcome? Excellent Better than Russia rolling Ukraine and having them under thumb. Yes the current situation is shiite. Yes it could be worse. 1
Motorin' Posted October 12, 2022 Posted October 12, 2022 6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: By doing the hard work of diplomacy and assembling a coalition of our allies to make it clear that ANY incursion would not be tolerated…before it starts. How about that? But what were we doing…watching figure skating and hoping not to embarrass China while they were throwing a party. Are you suggesting that we failed to preempt the war bc we didn't offer a credible threat to go to war with Russia if they invaded?
Motorin' Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 22 minutes ago, aristocrat said: These dudes are stupid cowards. According to them AOC started the war with Russia by voting to send arms to Ukraine to defend themselves from Russian invasion, and everyone will die in a nuclear Holocaust unless we make Ukraine lay down their weapons and be murdered by Russia. Cool story.
meazza Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 8 hours ago, Motorin' said: These dudes are stupid cowards. According to them AOC started the war with Russia by voting to send arms to Ukraine to defend themselves from Russian invasion, and everyone will die in a nuclear Holocaust unless we make Ukraine lay down their weapons and be murdered by Russia. Cool story. Ukraine has become the political litmus test for the right and left.
Coffeesforclosers Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 27 minutes ago, meazza said: Ukraine has become the political litmus test for the right and left. It really isn't. For some reason the hard right/alt right thinks we should appease Russia because reasons. The hard left/far left thinks Imperialism is only bad when America does it, so they support Russia. Reasonable people in both parties tend to support Ukraine, because its a really, really easy issue to be right about. 1
SoCal Deek Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 15 hours ago, Motorin' said: Are you suggesting that we failed to preempt the war bc we didn't offer a credible threat to go to war with Russia if they invaded? Yes I am. We've all become way way too comfortable with the inevitably of armed conflicts. We've seen the modern world embroiled in a state of constant ‘war’ for decades now. This is ridiculous! The war machine simply moves from one hot spot to another, hopscotching from region to region. There’s barely even time to take a breath before the next one breaks out. This has NOTHING to do with partisan politics. There’s clearly an appetite for it on both sides of the aisle. I find it to be a huge waste of time, talent, blood and treasure. This most recent conflict wasn’t unforeseen. Everyone saw the build up….everyone.
Coffeesforclosers Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, B-Man said: Ummmmm no. Yeahhhhhh. Fortunately for Ukraine, Joe Biden cultivated alliances across Europe and Asia to help foot the bill, and there's some heavy hitting economies in North America, Europe and Asia. Edited October 13, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers
Motorin' Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: We've all become way way too comfortable with the inevitably of armed conflicts. We've seen the modern world embroiled in a state of constant ‘war’ for decades now. This is ridiculous! The war machine simply moves from one hot spot to another, hopscotching from region to region. There’s barely even time to take a breath before the next one breaks out. This has NOTHING to do with partisan politics. There’s clearly an appetite for it on both sides of the aisle. I find it to be a huge waste of time, talent, blood and treasure. I don't disagree with the general sentiment... Although there's always been a ton of profit made from war... But I just don't see Putin not calling the bluff. He was denying he was going to invade until he did, and he's still refusing to say they are at war. So had we put a coalition together threatening to destroy Russia behind the scenes, and he invades, now we've trigged WWIII or look like total cowards for not following through. Maybe the threat does work, but given the fact that no countries seem willing to go to war with Russia in Ukraine after the invasion, I find it hard to believe a global coalition would have pledged to do so before the invasion. I think we're doing the best we can, giving Ukraine the means to fight the war itself. Isolating Russia from the rest of the world. The off ramp seems non-existent at this point. Putin has staked his regime and probably his life on victory. And Ukraine is as united in defending their country and are willing to go to any length to do so. For me, this war and China's actions towards Taiwan and its own people has wiped a lot of deluded idealism away. For all of the imperfections and wrongdoings I've been critical of our country for over the years, I'm grateful I don't live in a country where you go to jail if you say you're at war, or where entire cities are held hostage if one person has Covid. 1
SoCal Deek Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Motorin' said: I don't disagree with the general sentiment... Although there's always been a ton of profit made from war... But I just don't see Putin not calling the bluff. He was denying he was going to invade until he did, and he's still refusing to say they are at war. So had we put a coalition together threatening to destroy Russia behind the scenes, and he invades, now we've trigged WWIII or look like total cowards for not following through. Maybe the threat does work, but given the fact that no countries seem willing to go to war with Russia in Ukraine after the invasion, I find it hard to believe a global coalition would have pledged to do so before the invasion. I think we're doing the best we can, giving Ukraine the means to fight the war itself. Isolating Russia from the rest of the world. The off ramp seems non-existent at this point. Putin has staked his regime and probably his life on victory. And Ukraine is as united in defending their country and are willing to go to any length to do so. For me, this war and China's actions towards Taiwan and its own people has wiped a lot of deluded idealism away. For all of the imperfections and wrongdoings I've been critical of our country for over the years, I'm grateful I don't live in a country where you go to jail if you say you're at war, or where entire cities are held hostage if one person has Covid. Thanks for the well thought out response. I find it sad how within the course of a century we’ve gone from ‘The War to end all Wars’ to being instead in a state of perpetual war. It’s happened so gradually that nobody even notices or tries to stop it anymore. And again…this has zero to do with partisan politics. We are better than this! 1
Motorin' Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: Thanks for the well thought out response. I find it sad how within the course of a century we’ve gone from ‘The War to end all Wars’ to being instead in a state of perpetual war. It’s happened so gradually that nobody even notices or tries to stop it anymore. And again…this has zero to do with partisan politics. We are better than this! I also don't disagree with your sentiment. Though the "war to end all wars" occured in the context of 400 previous years (or more) of perpetual war. I think it's in human nature to want to get our way, and to fight for it when we don't. I don't really have any solutions to offer, and I've mostly tried to avoid the back and forth arguing that happens here, and in real life for the last few months. I'm tired of all the BS. I just want to do my job, spend time with the Misses and watch the Bills on Sunday... I've guess I've officially turned into my parents... 1
SoCal Deek Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Motorin' said: I also don't disagree with your sentiment. Though the "war to end all wars" occured in the context of 400 previous years (or more) of perpetual war. I think it's in human nature to want to get our way, and to fight for it when we don't. I don't really have any solutions to offer, and I've mostly tried to avoid the back and forth arguing that happens here, and in real life for the last few months. I'm tired of all the BS. I just want to do my job, spend time with the Misses and watch the Bills on Sunday... I've guess I've officially turned into my parents... I’m hoping you meant Mrs…..not misses. 😂😂😂😂
yall Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 30 minutes ago, B-Man said: So is the "B" for "bot" or "bought"? 1 1 1
Tiberius Posted October 13, 2022 Author Posted October 13, 2022 38 minutes ago, B-Man said: Ukraine is much better at getting their message out. Being murdered, raped, bombed, tortured and invaded will tend to make for a more sympathetic narrative. 1
L Ron Burgundy Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 16 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Ukraine is much better at getting their message out. Being murdered, raped, bombed, tortured and invaded will tend to make for a more sympathetic narrative. Some of the stuff online I've seen is downright horrific. And I usually don't mind crazy stuff. I'm hooked on watching videos of intercepted calls. Gives insight into the f'd up mentality of the Russians and their soldiers. 1
yall Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 2 hours ago, yall said: So is the "B" for "bot" or "bought"? Since someone liked this who clearly didn't get the reference, I'm going with "bot"...
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