Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[sherpa]

10 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Its got to be an equipment thing. We're not at war, and we train pilots for our allies all the time.

 

The Ukrainians dont have to qualify top gun, the just have to be better than the Russians flying against Ukraine. 

 

It is way more complicated than simply training pilots. They have no ability to maintain them or arm them.

We are already deeply involved in this, draining our own war stock with massive supply of arms.

The Harry S. Truman is reportedly flying 80 sorties a day in support of this.

That is a massive and unsustainable pace, as well as rapidly using up service life of these airplanes.

(That, by the way, was a major issue in enforcing the the Iraqi no fly zone and part of the calculus to inform the decision to invade, though not often mentioned).

 

For what I think is a reasonable explanation of these issues, and certainly describes my view,  here is a link to a very recent youtube discussing it.

The guys talking are a retired F-14 RIO, (back seater), who is extremely well informed on current military aviation issues and a Reservist Naval Intel Officer.

It is well worth listening to for those who do not know what is involved in something like this and just want to "do somethng."

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su34D4KnO6s&t=1227s

 

[Big Blitz]

 

Covid convinced them how easily manipulated the population is.

[Tiberius]

 

[BillsFanNC]

No way!

 

 

[ALF]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

 

 

That would cross the line and NATO would have the excuse to intervene so Putin is not that dumb.

[Coffeesforclosers]

2 hours ago, ALF said:

 

That would cross the line and NATO would have the excuse to intervene so Putin is not that dumb.

 

It wouldn't.  NATO's mutual defense clause only applies to an attack on a member in North America or Europe.   NATO has no obligation to back us up if China attacked Guam or Hawaii.  It's also the reason why the UK had to take on Argentina by itself over the Falklands.

 

However, if for whatever reason those North Koreans attacked say Poland or the Baltics, yeah, then the balloon goes up.

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

  It's also the reason why the UK had to take on Argentina by itself over the Falklands.

 

 

Technically, this is correct.

For the edification of the class though, the UK did not take on "Argentina by itself."

 

Ships passing in the night, things get "passed."

 

Intel on sub locations get passed by a slip of the tongue among friendly nations.

 

[meazza]

5 hours ago, DRsGhost said:

No way!

 

 

I haven’t had a chance to watch the full video but the topic seems centered on logistics rather than corruption…

[BillsFanNC]

16 minutes ago, meazza said:

I haven’t had a chance to watch the full video but the topic seems centered on logistics rather than corruption…

 

Logistics or corruption are one in the same when we were told this aid was an emergency and time was of the essence and now three months later we learn only 30% of supplies are reaching their destination.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/10/us/politics/congress-ukraine-aid-questions.html

 

On Tuesday, hours before the House was to vote, Oksana Markarova, the Ukrainian ambassador to the United States, met separately with Republicans and Democrats in the Senate, where the measure is now headed, to personally call for swift passage of the package.

“Her people are dying. They’re running out of supplies and ammunition. They need our help quickly,” said Senator Richard J. Durbin of Illinois, the No. 2 Democrat, describing Ms. Markarova’s message as: “Thank you for all our help, but please speed it up.”

 

“Time is of the essence — and we cannot afford to wait,” Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California wrote to lawmakers in a letter on Tuesday ahead of the vote. “With this aid package, America sends a resounding message to the world of our unwavering determination to stand with the courageous people of Ukraine until victory is won.”

[Coffeesforclosers]

1 hour ago, meazza said:

I haven’t had a chance to watch the full video but the topic seems centered on logistics rather than corruption…

 

DR sees the world entirely in Red vs. Blue glasses.  His "side" happens to be Red.

 

You can compare and contrast him to say, Sherpa, who supports Ukraine and wants them to win, but sees clear practical limits to the amount of support we can provide.  The limits are  based on our military readiness, possible enemies (read, China), and obligations around the globe.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers

[L Ron Burgundy]

8 hours ago, Tiberius said:

 

This is nuts if it happens on so many levels.  If it actually goes down I wonder what the response will be.

 

Will they send elite troops or cannon fodder that would just run away?  So many questions to this lunacy.

[BillsFanNC]

1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

DR sees the world entirely in Red vs. Blue glasses.  His "side" happens to be Red.

 

You can compare and contrast him to say, Sherpa, who supports Ukraine and wants them to win, but sees clear practical limits to the amount of support we can provide.  The limits are  based on our military readiness, possible enemies (read, China), and obligations around the globe.

 

Interesting take given this aid was passed with BIPARTISAN support.

 

Perhaps you missed the dozens of other times I've said that I'm neither D nor R.  I'm registered independent.  I think BOTH parties suck ass and they both take the blame here.

 

And ***** off.

[Coffeesforclosers]

11 minutes ago, DRsGhost said:

 

Interesting take given this aid was passed with BIPARTISAN support.

 

Perhaps you missed the dozens of other times I've said that I'm neither D nor R.  I'm registered independent.  I think BOTH parties suck ass and they both take the blame here.

 

And ***** off.

 

Oh come on.  Your posts in this subforum are 95% embeds from the Q twittersphere.  You spam out tweets from Jack Posobiec, as if he didn't have his security clearance yanked by the Air Force for cause.  Give me a break.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers

[BillStime]

10 minutes ago, DRsGhost said:

 

Interesting take given this aid was passed with BIPARTISAN support.

 

Perhaps you missed the dozens of other times I've said that I'm neither D nor R.  I'm registered independent.  I think BOTH parties suck ass and they both take the blame here.

 

And ***** off.

[BillsFanNC]

2 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Oh come on.  Your posts in this subforum are 95% embeds from the Q twittersphere.  You spam out tweets from Jack Posobiec, as if he didn't have his security clearance yanked by the Air Force for cause.  Give me a break.

 

How typical.  Because the left has gone off the deep end anyone who points out the fact that they've gone off the deep end is a Qanon / conspiracy theorist.

 

Weak as weak can get. And ***** off.  Again.

[meazza]

7 minutes ago, DRsGhost said:

 

How typical.  Because the left has gone off the deep end anyone who points out the fact that they've gone off the deep end is a Qanon / conspiracy theorist.

 

Weak as weak can get. And ***** off.  Again.

 Correction, the left and right have gone off the deep end.  

[BillsFanNC]

1 minute ago, meazza said:

 Correction, the left and right have gone off the deep end.  

 

True and it would be nice if 95% of legacy media, all of big tech and the DC swamp acknowledged this.  That's the crux of the matter.

 

Instead its the right has gone off the deep end and the left is  A-OK by us.

 

THAT is why I post from the sources that I do.  

 

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

14 minutes ago, meazza said:

 Correction, the left and right have gone off the deep end.  

 

My point exactly.

[BillsFanNC]

1 minute ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

My point exactly.

 

ok. Do you think that the right and left are held to account in equal proportion among media, big tech and federal institutions?

[All_Pro_Bills]

16 minutes ago, DRsGhost said:

 

ok. Do you think that the right and left are held to account in equal proportion among media, big tech and federal institutions?

The only problem with your argument is that the media is heavily skewed to the left and for all intents and purposes the political left and the mainstream media are a single integrated entity.