SoCal Deek Posted July 20, 2022 Posted July 20, 2022 25 minutes ago, Tiberius said: What solution do you want Biden to propose? It's called 'brokering the peace'. What solution are you holding your breath over? Besides screaming PUTIN at everyone 24/7.
All_Pro_Bills Posted July 20, 2022 Posted July 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Who else? Putin is invading another country and you think Ukraine should what..? Stop defending themselves? I think clearly knowing your taking actions that will lead to a conflict is equivalent to staring a conflict. And I'm not talking about the Ukrainians.
Tiberius Posted July 20, 2022 Author Posted July 20, 2022 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: It's called 'brokering the peace'. What solution are you holding your breath over? Besides screaming PUTIN at everyone 24/7. Seriously, you complain but don't propose anything serious. Just nothing but crap from you
SoCal Deek Posted July 20, 2022 Posted July 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Seriously, you complain but don't propose anything serious. Just nothing but crap from you I just said the Biden Administration needs to broker the peace! Hello? Is this thing on? 1
Tiberius Posted July 20, 2022 Author Posted July 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I just said the Biden Administration needs to broker the peace! Hello? Is this thing on? How, what terms? More crap from you, just general puck
SoCal Deek Posted July 20, 2022 Posted July 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: How, what terms? More crap from you, just general puck Are you clueless? The broker doesn’t set the terms. They negotiate and facilitate them. Have you ever bought a house? Sheeesh!
Coffeesforclosers Posted July 20, 2022 Posted July 20, 2022 2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: You know who else but its obvious you're unable to objectively view this conflict and as a result are against any peaceful compromise. Russia chose to start a war of conquest. Why should anybody compromise with them, when all a compromise does is incentivize another war? Do you think Russia's invasion and its subsequent conduct are justified in some way? I'm interested in hearing your reasoning if you do. 1
Tiberius Posted July 20, 2022 Author Posted July 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Are you clueless? The broker doesn’t set the terms. They negotiate and facilitate them. Have you ever bought a house? Sheeesh! Negotiate what? What do you want the two sides to negotiate? Biden and Ukraine are pretty clear, Russia has to leave. Putin wants to take over people's territory. So what do you think would they can negotiate about? I'm giving you a chance to show you know something about this topic. Come on
SoCal Deek Posted July 20, 2022 Posted July 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Negotiate what? What do you want the two sides to negotiate? Biden and Ukraine are pretty clear, Russia has to leave. Putin wants to take over people's territory. So what do you think would they can negotiate about? I'm giving you a chance to show you know something about this topic. Come on It’s not up to me (or you) to decide what each side is willing to accept. You’ve clearly never negotiated for anything in your life or sat through a mediation or arbitration process in a civil suit. I have. And I can tell you that everyone walks into the room with your attitude. And some hours later everyone walks out with a solution. It happens THOUSANDS of times each and every day. 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted July 20, 2022 Posted July 20, 2022 Just now, Coffeesforclosers said: Russia chose to start a war of conquest. Why should anybody compromise with them, when all a compromise does is incentivize another war? Do you think Russia's invasion and its subsequent conduct are justified in some way? I'm interested in hearing your reasoning if you do. First, none of this has anything to do with what I want or what I don't want. We have family of Ukrainian descent (my sister-in-law) and we've pitched in to help at the church with time and money for aid shipments. So I'm hardly what others here suggest as some sort of Russian sympathizer or asset because I'm not buying into the propaganda about how well and great this war is going. And when somebody responds with some"Putin" reference I don't know whether to laugh or cry. There's a lot of needless death and suffering. That's my base case here. But this conflict started back in 2014. When the State department's neocon extraordinaire Victoria Nuland and the CIA engineered the coup in 2014. In 2016 Trump's in, she's out and a balance of power back-and-forth is in place. In 2020 Biden's in and she's back in the club. Under-secretary for Blinken assigned to finish the job. To fast-forward to today, in my view this war is already lost But Washington refuses to allow Zelensky to sit down and discuss peace terms. Europe is a disaster, It should be pointed out these are the same cast of characters that FUBAR'd every single one of these regime change operations over the past 25+ years and its almost a guarantee this one is also going to end in abject failure. If the US had clearly stated there are no plans to put missiles in Ukraine or to advance the NATO alliance towards their border none of this would have happened. But the US didn't say that because that's absolutely the objective. What you might be distracted from here is the big picture of changing alliances and transfer of power among the global players. Do you really believe the US is playing from a position of strength? Look at Biden's recent trip for clues. The body language and how he came off as weak and begging for the Saudi's to increase oil output. And he came away with nothing. They did everything short of just laughing in his face. This week Putin follows up with his visit. Don't be surprised if Putin along with Xi eventually broker an armistice or peace deal between long time adversaries Iran and Saudi Arabia. That will be a real kick in the toolbox for the US State Department. The balance of power is shifting away from the US and these weak and ineffective leaders and constant threats of violence and military intervention and sanctions are accelerating the process as the world is looking for the exit ramp. 1
Coffeesforclosers Posted July 20, 2022 Posted July 20, 2022 58 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: First, none of this has anything to do with what I want or what I don't want. We have family of Ukrainian descent (my sister-in-law) and we've pitched in to help at the church with time and money for aid shipments. So I'm hardly what others here suggest as some sort of Russian sympathizer or asset because I'm not buying into the propaganda about how well and great this war is going. And when somebody responds with some"Putin" reference I don't know whether to laugh or cry. There's a lot of needless death and suffering. That's my base case here. But this conflict started back in 2014. When the State department's neocon extraordinaire Victoria Nuland and the CIA engineered the coup in 2014. In 2016 Trump's in, she's out and a balance of power back-and-forth is in place. In 2020 Biden's in and she's back in the club. Under-secretary for Blinken assigned to finish the job. To fast-forward to today, in my view this war is already lost But Washington refuses to allow Zelensky to sit down and discuss peace terms. Europe is a disaster, It should be pointed out these are the same cast of characters that FUBAR'd every single one of these regime change operations over the past 25+ years and its almost a guarantee this one is also going to end in abject failure. If the US had clearly stated there are no plans to put missiles in Ukraine or to advance the NATO alliance towards their border none of this would have happened. But the US didn't say that because that's absolutely the objective. What you might be distracted from here is the big picture of changing alliances and transfer of power among the global players. Do you really believe the US is playing from a position of strength? Look at Biden's recent trip for clues. The body language and how he came off as weak and begging for the Saudi's to increase oil output. And he came away with nothing. They did everything short of just laughing in his face. This week Putin follows up with his visit. Don't be surprised if Putin along with Xi eventually broker an armistice or peace deal between long time adversaries Iran and Saudi Arabia. That will be a real kick in the toolbox for the US State Department. The balance of power is shifting away from the US and these weak and ineffective leaders and constant threats of violence and military intervention and sanctions are accelerating the process as the world is looking for the exit ramp. Thank ***** god for a nuanced opinion rather than a raft of tweets! Ill reply to you at length later, and I asked for your take because I know you have a personal connection to what's going on.
SoCal Deek Posted July 21, 2022 Posted July 21, 2022 49 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Well there you have it. Twitter has spoken.
Tiberius Posted July 21, 2022 Author Posted July 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, B-Man said: As Questions Mount About Corruption In Ukraine, The Neocon Narrative Is Unraveling BY: JOHN DANIEL DAVIDSON JULY 20, 2022 The Washington establishment would rather cast aspersions on those asking questions about corruption in Ukraine than recognize the problem. https://thefederalist.com/2022/07/20/as-questions-mount-about-corruption-in-ukraine-the-neocon-narrative-is-unraveling/ Neocons? They are the ones that pushed the Iraq War. @B-Man Remember that? Now all these Conservatives say they were with with Obama against the war, lol Go Ukraine!!! Hopefully next month sees a major shift in the war there
Orlando Buffalo Posted July 22, 2022 Posted July 22, 2022 I just got back from a vacation with some extended family, one who works for the govt and has knowledge of what our intelligence believes, and it was mainly very encouraging. Our govt has sent more than they have truly publicized, but refused American troops at all points, which made me happy. The Ukrainians have actually done more damage to the Russian army than is being discussed on mainstream media. The problem is there is little in a way Putin can bow out and look like the "winner" so some are concerned about that. I will add the caveat that the info I was given was very general and my family member is rarely even in the room where the decisions are made but he is sometimes and what he shared is big picture nothing specific. 2 3
B-Man Posted July 22, 2022 Posted July 22, 2022 WELL, GOOD: Ukraine is winning. https://hotair.com/headlines/2022/07/21/ukraine-is-winning-n484219
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