Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Can the Ukrainians make any use at all of historical parallels?
Reading this off Drudge earlier today about the now standard Russian artillery-centric frontal attack (throwback) tactics being employed https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/theyre-in-hell-hail-of-russian-artillery-tests-ukrainian-morale/ar-AAY3MQM, in turn made me think of German General Heinrici’s late WW2 defensive doctrine, that called for pulling all frontline troops in his sector out of the main battle lines being targeted by the Reds, shortly before the artillery barrages started. Then jump from ca. 10km back to re-occupy the main line at the end of the barrages but before the infantry charges that followed. He used this to no small effect in conserving the defensive punch of the relatively paltry numbers assigned to his command, up to the last days of the war. Just some food for thought from the lessons of military history…

(for some reason this link had issues embedding so you may need to copy/paste):
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2017/06/08/masterful-german-defense-battle-of-seelow-heights/

‘To ensure German frontline troops survived the artillery bombardment that typically preceded a major Soviet attack, Heinrici planned to withdraw the men from forward positions the night before the attack and have them wait out the bombardment nearly 10 kilometers behind the front line…Heinrici expected the attack to occur on April 16 based on interrogations of captured Russian soldiers and had taken the necessary steps to shield the Ninth Army from the full fury of the Russian artillery. For the most part, the German infantry stationed in forward positions had pulled back to the third line of the first position the night before and, therefore, survived the rain of Soviet shells. Afterward, Zhukov was roundly criticized by his fellow generals for sticking to the doctrine of using a lengthy preliminary artillery bombardment. “As usual, we stuck to the book and by now the Germans know our methods,” said Colonel General Vasili Kuznetsov, commander of the Third Shock Army. “They pulled back their troops a good eight kilometers. Our artillery hit everything but the enemy.” ‘

[Coffeesforclosers]

16 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Unfortunate (if true)

 

 

U.S. Officials Admit They Have Lied About Ukraine Success and Russian Failures

by Larry Johnson

 

The U.S. and NATO have been lying about what is actually taking place on the ground in Ukraine. For those not familiar with my early writings on the actual situation, go back a look at my previous articles written in March– Is Russia on the Ropes in Ukraine? and Update on the Military Situation in Ukraine. NBC News, not known as a pro-Putin media outlet, published this bombshell this week:

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/06/u-s-officials-admit-lied-ukraine-success-russian-failures/

 

Call me shocked. Liars lying. Who'd have thought it? Beware of "hitching your wagon" to Neocon/State Dept/Pentagon/Brandon propaganda.

 

What's the bombshell?  The Pentagon called Russian moves around Kyiv a repositioning, not a withdrawal, and said so back in March. They even said those forces were going to the Donbass.  AP, Reuters, Forbes, ABC, all were saying that the Russians were pulling back so they could head over to the Donbass.  Nobody was saying that the Russians were withdrawing because of Ukrainian pressure.   This guy is screaming out an answer to a question nobody asked.

 

But yeah, there is always propaganda in war.  Like the whole crowd who thought the attack on Kyiv was just a feint, that 40,000 Ukrainian troops were going to be cut off and annihilated within 48 hours of the war starting, that Ukraine had been "ground to dirt"...two months ago.  AKA Col. Douglas MacGregor, who the author of article references as an authority.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers

[Tenhigh]

6 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

What's the bombshell?  The Pentagon called Russian moves around Kyiv a repositioning, not a withdrawal, and said so back in March. They even said those forces were going to the Donbass.  AP, Reuters, Forbes, ABC, all were saying that the Russians were pulling back so they could head over to the Donbass.  Nobody was saying that the Russians were withdrawing because of Ukrainian pressure.   This guy is screaming out an answer to a question nobody asked.

 

But yeah, there is always propaganda in war.  Like the whole crowd who thought the attack on Kyiv was just a feint, that 40,000 Ukrainian troops were going to be cut off and annihilated within 48 hours of the war starting, that Ukraine had been "ground to dirt"...two months ago.  AKA Col. Douglas MacGregor, who the author of article references as an authority.

No bombshell in that article, the government is going to only tell people what they want them to hear, especially in a (proxy) war.  What is eye opening to me is how the press is treating it all as fact, especially in the early days. 

but what's weird to me is that the press is publishing that propaganda as fact, especially in the early days of the invasion. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Tenhigh

[Tiberius]

Not sure if just speculation or if he is in the know 

[Tiberius]

 

[Tiberius]

 

[Tiberius]

Earth calling Israel! You hear this? Attempted genocide taking place and you are silent. 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

31 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Earth calling Israel! You hear this? Attempted genocide taking place and you are silent. 

 

 

Are there any people other than Ukrainians that you don’t hate? 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Everything I say is really stupid 

Yes 

[SoCal Deek]

46 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Yes 

Nice Tibs …keep stoking the hate.

[All_Pro_Bills]

20 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Earth calling Israel! You hear this? Attempted genocide taking place and you are silent. 

 

 

Its not much of a choice given no third option, is it?  Either support Putin or support a government employing Nazi militias.  

[Tiberius]

33 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Its not much of a choice given no third option, is it?  Either support Putin or support a government employing Nazi militias.  

That's how you describe Ukraine? Right out of Putin's propaganda book

[All_Pro_Bills]

14 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

That's how you describe Ukraine? Right out of Putin's propaganda book

Well in what version of reality are Azov fighters and members of other militias covered head-to-toe in tattoos of swastikas and Nazi SS symbols and Third Reich images not Nazi's or Nazi sympathizers?  I mean, you've got to be freakin' kidding yourself here.

Edited June 8, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Well in what version of reality are Azov fighters and members of other militias covered head-to-toe in tattoos of swastikas and Nazi SS symbols and Third Reich images not Nazi's or Nazi sympathizers?  I mean, you've got to be freakin' kidding yourself here.

That's how you define a country? 

 

So American is the land of racists then? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

That's how you define a country? 

 

So American is the land of racists then? 

I'm saying there are Nazi militias in Ukraine.  Why are you so afraid to admit to the truth?  Heck, even they admit they're Nazi's.  Why can't you? 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm saying there are Nazi militias in Ukraine.  Why are you so afraid to admit to the truth?  Heck, even they admit they're Nazi's.  Why can't you? 

 

Because they're the victim and you can't say anything bad about a victim...

[Warcodered]

4 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Its not much of a choice given no third option, is it?  Either support Putin or support a government employing Nazi militias.  

So let me get this straight if the United States was invaded by a foreign power and some of the White Nationalist/Neo Nazi/ KKK militias which do exist here helped fight against that invader the U.S. would be the bad guys?

 

Hell go with this "hypothetical" example, would the United States be in the wrong for fighting in a war allied with a mass murdering Communist dictatorship against Nazis?

Edited June 8, 2022 by Warcodered

[All_Pro_Bills]

32 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

So let me get this straight if the United States was invaded by a foreign power and some of the White Nationalist/Neo Nazi/ KKK militias which do exist here helped fight against that invader the U.S. would be the bad guys?

 

Hell go with this "hypothetical" example, would the United States be in the wrong for fighting in a war allied with a mass murdering Communist dictator ship against Nazis?

In those situations there's a clear acknowledgement of the arrangement among the parties involved.  But in my back and forth with my friend Tibs there seems to be a refusal to acknowledge the truth.  All I asked for is an acknowledgment that Nazi militias exist in Ukraine.  And I curiously ask based on the original tweet posted why would Jewish Rabbi's side with Nazi's?  These militias have been engaged in fighting against Russian separatists in Donbas for 8 years running.  And this is hardly the absolute good vs. evil fight for a pure as the driven snow democracy story we're being fed 24/7.  I mean you won't find many references to Nazi or white nationalist elements in the US press in regards to Ukraine even though those militias are likely the difference between winning or losing the fight here.    

[L Ron Burgundy]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

In those situations there's a clear acknowledgement of the arrangement among the parties involved.  But in my back and forth with my friend Tibs there seems to be a refusal to acknowledge the truth.  All I asked for is an acknowledgment that Nazi militias exist in Ukraine.  And I curiously ask based on the original tweet posted why would Jewish Rabbi's side with Nazi's?  These militias have been engaged in fighting against Russian separatists in Donbas for 8 years running.  And this is hardly the absolute good vs. evil fight for a pure as the driven snow democracy story we're being fed 24/7.  I mean you won't find many references to Nazi or white nationalist elements in the US press in regards to Ukraine even though those militias are likely the difference between winning or losing the fight here.    

They're mostly Ukrainian nationalists using Nazi symbolism.   Of course they gained popularity because some shiite-hole neighbor has been trying to take over part of their country.  But yeah there are Nazis there.  I know some Nigerians who were there for schooling and got stuck were not treated very well because they were black.

 

Ukraine may come out of this stronger and with more equality.  After seeing women, LGBT, and some black volunteers from overseas one would hope some of the racist sentiments would subside.

Who knows though?

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by L Ron Burgundy

[T&C]

Nice work lol

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-radio-hacked-broadcast-ukraine-national-anthem-anti-war-songs-2022-6?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sf-insider-main&fbclid=IwAR0ziI8HRAnniRUru7QaOkNiFNtw4ePrC3qMITVQJkGQTkJr7bfxSiG1STY