Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Coffeesforclosers]

31 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

 

I'm behind on this part of the Ukraine war news.  So critically important bits of Russian industry have all started catching fire at the same time?

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, sherpa said:

Who in their right mind gives a rat's about John Bolton.

The single worst Trump appointee, and there were many.

 

Some people have a "to do" list.

Bolton has always had a "to invade" list and it is very long.

 

The guy has never met a country he didn't want to go to war with, and I for one, have no interest in any of his speculations.

 

Bolton is a moron.  So Putin was waiting for Trump to pull out of NATO (another lie)...to do what?  And when Trump lost the election, Putin still invaded Ukraine while the US was still in NATO.  Solid "thinking" there, Johnny!

[Niagara Bill]

3 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm sorry.  I expected that given your 1939 analogy I thought you'd be in alignment with the idea of attacking China.  Otherwise, I assume we wait until they attack Taiwan and you can start citing references to 1941 and the Japanese Empire's invasion of China, Korea, or other Asian nations. 

 

As for diplomacy, there was little to no diplomacy in addressing Russia and their security concerns which US official dismissed without even addressing.  Just do what we say was the negotiating position.  That worked out great for everyone.  Some inside the NATO alliance suggest many member nations want to prolong the war as long as possible as a way to weaken Russia regardless of the costs to the Ukrainian nation and citizens.  I tend to believe that.

 

My final assessment is that given the Russian military's piss poor performance against Ukraine's forces are we overstating or miscalculating the threat presented to Western Europe and the U.S. by Russian conventional forces?  I expect that in a head-to-head fight against our land, sea, and air services the American military would likely annihilate the Russia forces in a matter of weeks if not days.  So what are we really worried about?  

 

1. We should never attack first, but like Hitler, you must be ready to respond immediately. Putin knew we would nit.

2. This is not about security, it us about ethnic cleansing now. Allowing people Russians to take over Ukraine for the second time, and punishing if Ukraine fir the 3rd time in a century.

3. I think you are right about letting Russia weaken itself.

4. But Ryssia I am sure gas nit used its force. Both US and Russia could not contain issues in Afghanistan for 20 years of effort.

5. Russia has defeated Ukraine. It is the people they cannot defeat. Like the Palestinians or Taliban. Ukrainians people will not be communists again. Freedom ir death. We should be fully supporting this. Is this just not a giant Korea 1951. 

Good discussion All Pro😀

[Tiberius]

28 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

I'm behind on this part of the Ukraine war news.  So critically important bits of Russian industry have all started catching fire at the same time?

This is the first I’m hearing of it. Did you see the two oligarchs that killed their families and themselves? Something is up 

[Tiberius]

And this 

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

39 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

This is the first I’m hearing of it. Did you see the two oligarchs that killed their families and themselves? Something is up 

 

What the ***** is up with that country.

 

I might just watch Tucker Carlson tonight, so he can go on explaining why Russia's "interests" need to be respected or whatever he's on about 

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said:

1. We should never attack first, but like Hitler, you must be ready to respond immediately. Putin knew we would nit.

2. This is not about security, it us about ethnic cleansing now. Allowing people Russians to take over Ukraine for the second time, and punishing if Ukraine fir the 3rd time in a century.

3. I think you are right about letting Russia weaken itself.

4. But Ryssia I am sure gas nit used its force. Both US and Russia could not contain issues in Afghanistan for 20 years of effort.

5. Russia has defeated Ukraine. It is the people they cannot defeat. Like the Palestinians or Taliban. Ukrainians people will not be communists again. Freedom ir death. We should be fully supporting this. Is this just not a giant Korea 1951. 

Good discussion All Pro😀

 

Very strange post, and I hesitate to quote it.

Still, I have never seen a post of yours that talks about specifics regarding how to do what you want, and what the cost would be.

As background, I think comparing Putin to Hitler vis a vis territorial acquisition is absurd.  

[Tiberius]

Russia might be heading for turmoil 

 

 

[Niagara Bill]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

Very strange post, and I hesitate to quote it.

Still, I have never seen a post of yours that talks about specifics regarding how to do what you want, and what the cost would be.

As background, I think comparing Putin to Hitler vis a vis territorial acquisition is absurd.  

I will consider your comments.....nah 😆

Russians have been involved the ethnic cleansing before. Never with a nation like Ukraine. He is making same type of claims as Hitler.

IMHO he is a wannabe and copy cat, Russian style. The difference is his nation dies not back him, but he does not care, Communism vs Democratic Republic.

Lenin,Stalin, Putin, same mould. Trump may think Putin is brilliant, he is, but that does not make him less like Hitler, it makes him more like Hitler.

Russia is a very violent society. The country is run by ex KGB. If you know anyone from there you would know.

Have a good day, 

[sherpa]

12 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

I will consider your comments.....nah 😆

Russians have been involved the ethnic cleansing before. Never with a nation like Ukraine. He is making same type of claims as Hitler.

IMHO he is a wannabe and copy cat, Russian style. The difference is his nation dies not back him, but he does not care, Communism vs Democratic Republic.

Lenin,Stalin, Putin, same mould. Trump may think Putin is brilliant, he is, but that does not make him less like Hitler, it makes him more like Hitler.

Russia is a very violent society. The country is run by ex KGB. If you know anyone from there you would know.

Have a good day, 

 

Nothing in this post addresses my challenge to you, which was how and where do we do what you seemingly want to do.

Expressing disdain to Putin and the culture is not a strategy for efficacy. It is merely an opinion shared by all.

I don't "know" Russians, but I have been to Moscow a few times and have a view. That's why I've only been there a few times.

Hate the place, but that doesn't provide a realistic strategy on how to handle it without triggering WWIII.

And I'm having a great day.

 

[Niagara Bill]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

Nothing in this post addresses my challenge to you, which was how and where do we do what you seemingly want to do.

Expressing disdain to Putin and the culture is not a strategy for efficacy. It is merely an opinion shared by all.

I don't "know" Russians, but I have been to Moscow a few times and have a view. That's why I've only been there a few times.

Hate the place, but that doesn't provide a realistic strategy on how to handle it without triggering WWIII.

And I'm having a great day.

 

I don't do challenges.

Glad your day is great...mine too

[sherpa]

21 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

I don't do challenges.

Glad your day is great...mine too

 

Then perhaps you might consider ceasing challenges if you're not going to offer solutions.

You've got tons of "do this" without any "how."

Just a thought.

[Niagara Bill]

47 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Then perhaps you might consider ceasing challenges if you're not going to offer solutions.

You've got tons of "do this" without any "how."

Just a thought.

Bad thought. I do not pretend to know more than experts like military folks and intelligence community. I see issues, directions to consider and obvious situations that need to be addressed. 

 

I know one thing. Putin needs to be controlled, now, thru finance, thru power, thru force or thru a bullet from a comrade. How that happens is over my head. 

Ukraine deserves help. They are one of the few nations that stand tall for their freedom and country. Not like many others. They are spiritual, family, Christian people who want freedom. 

Putin will not stop here.

We can talk in 4 months. The world will be different. The US will be consumed in internal elections, the rest of the world will not be important. Putin will have his way.

 

[BillStime]

4 minutes ago, DRsGhost said:

Hey @BillStime...

 

***** off

 

 

So the Trump campaign didn’t meet with the Russians 140+ times? Coordinate campaign data and Wikileaks drops?

 

Simple yes or no will suffice.

[Tiberius]

All these howitzers going in to Ukraine can have a big effect on the battlefield once they are in place, the rain stops and Ukraine begins to counterattack in earnest. Just hope they can be protected from air attack 

 

 

[Tiberius]

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

17 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Russia might be heading for turmoil 

 

 

 

Man, it's like Russia is going through all the stages of the Vietnam experience in fast forward.

 

There's growing chatter that May 9th will be Russia's formal declaration of war against Ukraine instead of the big victory celebration.  The much vaunted offensive in the Donbass is doing what everyone though it would so far, which is gain ground here and there and achieve very, very little.

 

Now if Russia is going to declare war on May 9th, expect some kind of insane gesture to try and "reset" the situation.  Like Russia also declaring war on Finland or Sweden, or the Baltics.  Quite possibly on us, so they can have a life-or-death "struggle for survival" that's entirely of their own making, due to their own stupidity.

[Tiberius]

21 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Man, it's like Russia is going through all the stages of the Vietnam experience in fast forward.

 

There's growing chatter that May 9th will be Russia's formal declaration of war against Ukraine instead of the big victory celebration.  The much vaunted offensive in the Donbass is doing what everyone though it would so far, which is gain ground here and there and achieve very, very little.

 

Now if Russia is going to declare war on May 9th, expect some kind of insane gesture to try and "reset" the situation.  Like Russia also declaring war on Finland or Sweden, or the Baltics.  Quite possibly on us, so they can have a life-or-death "struggle for survival" that's entirely of their own making, due to their own stupidity.

It's like the black knight scene in Monty Python's Holy Grail 

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

It's like the black knight scene in Monty Python's Holy Grail 

 

 

Sad.  And why not?  His pet patriarch will bless anything he does.  

[Doc]

It's more like the scenes in The Godfather, where they're baptizing Michael's son while the mobsters are getting whacked.