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Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

Tiberius

By Tiberius
in Politics, Polls, and Pundits

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All_Pro_Bills All Pro

All_Pro_Bills

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6 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

What an embarrassment.

 

 

Tibs can take his kneepads off now

 

Should we assume as leader of one NATO member he has authority to dictate policy to all other NATO members.  Or has already consulted them with this brilliant idea?  Along with unilaterally granting territorial access to a Russian leader these other nations consider an adversary and threat?  And the Poles and Romanians have agree too?

 

If this is factual I can hear Peppermint Patty walking this back at the next WH PR.  Something like "We believe, and the President believes, blah, blah, blah". 

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Tiberius
Tiberius

Much better chance than under Trump. So yes, I do think Biden will show leadership. 

leh-nerd skin-erd
leh-nerd skin-erd

Kay, here’s the dealio.  Tribalism is a fancy world for people being people, and there’s not much more to it than that.    I visited Florida last week (the state, not hip hop singer extraordina

aristocrat
aristocrat

no matter how much you deflect Ukraine is being destroyed because Russia doesn’t respect America under Biden 

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Doc Hall of Famer

Doc

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Way to stand up to Putin, Joey! 

 

What more can Joey give him?  If Trump was a "Putin puppet," Joey makes him the worst one ever.

All_Pro_Bills All Pro

All_Pro_Bills

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22 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Honest question: Wouldn't it be better for everyone if the US just told the Ukraine that we don't think it's a good idea for them to join NATO?

That's too logical.  You need to stop.  If that would happen then the potential for peace to break out everywhere might usher in a new era of human cooperation.  And how would all those defense contractors supported by 800+ billion in annual US government spending along with 100's of billions more from elsewhere survive?  Where would former officials in the State and Defense departments and the Pentagon find work in the private sector. 

What's next?  Diverting all those funds to solving problems of poverty, hunger, and research and development into sources of unlimited energy?  No, it's way more productive to live though an era of constant warfare and conflict.  Suggesting peace and prosperity rather than death and war might lead others to accuse us of being Putin sympathizers.  It's much better for our country to pursue a policy of acting like a 50 ton truck with no road manners.    

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SoCal Deek Hall of Famer

SoCal Deek

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5 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

That's too logical.  You need to stop.  If that would happen then the potential for peace to break out everywhere might usher in a new era of human cooperation.  And how would all those defense contractors supported by 800+ billion in annual US government spending along with 100's of billions more from elsewhere survive?  Where would former officials in the State and Defense departments and the Pentagon find work in the private sector. 

What's next?  Diverting all those funds to solving problems of poverty, hunger, and research and development into sources of unlimited energy?  No, it's way more productive to live though an era of constant warfare and conflict.  Suggesting peace and prosperity rather than death and war might lead others to accuse us of being Putin sympathizers.  It's much better for our country to pursue a policy of acting like a 50 ton truck with no road manners.    

I've got an even better idea than spending my tax dollars on your list of 'diversions'....why not just give it back to me?  Just say "Hey, we didn't start a war with anyone this year, so we're sending you a refund!"  Now THAT would be nice.

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Tiberius Hall of Famer

Tiberius

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Go Joe! 🇺🇸 

Quote

 

President Biden vowed Monday that a major European energy pipeline would be abandoned if Russia sends forces into Ukraine, intensifying pressure on the Kremlin as Western leaders attempt to stave off a renewed assault on the continent’s eastern edge.

Biden issued the threat after talks with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, whose recently formed government has pledged to take part in Western retaliation should Russia seize more Ukrainian territory, as it did in the 2014 annexation of Crimea.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/07/ukraine-russia-scholz-biden-macron/

SectionC3 All Pro

SectionC3

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On 2/2/2022 at 5:12 PM, SoCal Deek said:

Honest question: Wouldn't it be better for everyone if the US just told the Ukraine that we don't think it's a good idea for them to join NATO?

 

If we let Russia run over Ukraine, then then Chinese get eyes on Taiwan.  Global geopolitics at work.  I'm not saying that we get involved in a ground war in Ukraine--I don't think that's a good idea--but I'm all for making this really, really painful for Russia should Russia move on Ukraine.  And, we should beef up our presence in Poland and the Baltics.  Don't want NATO in Ukraine?  Fine.  But invade Ukraine and you get an awful lot more NATO in other nearby places. 

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All_Pro_Bills All Pro

All_Pro_Bills

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47 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

If we let Russia run over Ukraine, then then Chinese get eyes on Taiwan.  Global geopolitics at work.  I'm not saying that we get involved in a ground war in Ukraine--I don't think that's a good idea--but I'm all for making this really, really painful for Russia should Russia move on Ukraine.  And, we should beef up our presence in Poland and the Baltics.  Don't want NATO in Ukraine?  Fine.  But invade Ukraine and you get an awful lot more NATO in other nearby places. 

Only under very specific circumstances would I expect Russia to invade Ukraine and right now I don't see those circumstances being present.  The only party sounding the alarm here is the Biden Administration.  Statements from officials in France, Germany, and even Ukraine express little concern for an eminent invasion.  Watching ABC World News Tonight you'd be led to believe its going to happen at any moment.

 

My read of Putin and an examination of Russian ambitions is he has two strategic objectives here.  1) Integrate Russia economically with Europe, specifically closer ties with Germany and 2) systemically eliminate U.S. influence in the Middle East.  Both of these goals, pushing the U.S. out of specific spheres of influence in place since the end of world war 2, are supported by efforts already in motion, for example NordStream2 and OPEC+.  Middle East relations with Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc.  Neither objective stands to benefit by moving aggressively to attack Ukraine.  In short, I think Ukraine is just a diversion.

 

This is nothing more complicated than a game of Empire.  Russia wants to extend their influence, the U.S. wants to contain them and maintain the current arrangements.  And while we tussle with Russia, China is quietly and discreetly extending their influence everywhere.  Essentially taking over and colonizing big swatches of Africa and extending their influence in other places like South America, the Middle East, and Greater Asia in search of procuring markets and securing resources.  While we focus on sideshows like Ukraine.  If we want to win this game there needs to be some focus on critical and key interests and not a reflex action to engage in every little dust-up around the planet.   

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