Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

26 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Some dude on CNN, a “war criminal ambassador” who investigated those types of things said 5he sanctions would not be removed on Russia until Russian forces are gone from Ukraine and Putin and the generals are handed over to justice to the international court. 

 

Hmmm...

 

Not that I wouldn’t love him to get justice, but might that not prolong the suffering of Ukraine? And the Russian people for that matter. 

 

 

Yeah, Putin won’t head for an off ramp if there is a certainty of his own demise. 
 

Besides one man’s war crimes is another man’s mission for freedom. Right Biden, Bush, Obama Etc(I’m actually failing to remember any trump misuse of the military, but it’s probably in there too) 

[sherpa]

31 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Some dude on CNN, a “war criminal ambassador” who investigated those types of things said 5he sanctions would not be removed on Russia until Russian forces are gone from Ukraine and Putin and the generals are handed over to justice to the international court. 

 

I'd be very reticent to throw the "war criminal" charge out.

Pandora's box.

[Demongyz]

7 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Yeah, Putin won’t head for an off ramp if there is a certainty of his own demise. 
 

Besides one man’s war crimes is another man’s mission for freedom. Right Biden, Bush, Obama Etc(I’m actually failing to remember any trump misuse of the military, but it’s probably in there too) 

He did bomb nothing in Syria with 0 casualties to prove a point.

 

I know Trump used the hell out of drones to kill people in countries we weren't at war with... Just like the rest, so that was kinda war criminalistic.  Still, didn't start a war which is super cool in my book.

[muppy]

5 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Hi Mup,

 

I can commit to rational analysis on this issue, but not much more.  What I don't know about Russia and Ukraine would fill the soon-to-be-built open-aired/non-dome stadium in OP.    I'll watch the video later today, though admittedly I likely will feel I'm being manipulated in the first 60 seconds.  My curse, and a gift of sorts to me, is I'm cynical about intent and being told only part of the story virtually every time I wade into something like this. 

 

Big picture, I'm near certain that the pre-war issues between Russia and Ukraine are/were exceptionally complicated.  I think it's hard for average Americans to wrap their heads around the strife/struggles facing people who live in that region given alliances and hostilities that have arisen over the past thousand years or so.  Over here, we flip some spit to a company like 23NME, find out some small part of us traces back to a geographic area where Kyiv is situated and holy crap, we're 1/53rd Ukrainian.  Or, maybe we look a bit harder and see our ancestors may have actually hailed from what is known today as Belarus, Russia or Poland.  Over there, they don't need any of that to tell them who they are, and who their people were, right, wrong or indifferent.  And, of course, to some folks over there it's deadly serious to them. 

 

Where that leaves me is that while I know nothing about who was who(m) before they are who(m) they are now, I do understand an awful lot about human suffering and man's inhumanity to man.  I'm reminded of an old expression about old men starting wars and young men being sent to die in the fight.  It's all just so &*&^ing tragic to me.  

 

As for a professor/teacher offering "balanced" analysis of the crisis, I get a bit squeamish when a deep dive is offered and that results in banishment from the kingdom of knowledge.  I think one can understand the relative appeal of early-Adolph given the relative ignorance of people at the time and the general mindset of the Cherman people in the 1930s, discuss it openly and not be labelled a supporter of Hitler and his atrocities.  I think a class entitled "How did we get here?" if taught fairly and openly, often leads to a debrief properly labelled "Crisis Averted" down the road.  

 

Peace friend.

 

 

 

 

I decided I needed to look up the definition of indoctrination:

Quote

the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.

what I want to say is giving students information is part and parcel of what a teacher Does  right? Its the job description So by definition a teacher would need to be able to critique the information they are teaching and trust it is valid. It's not the parceling out of information I have a problem with. It was the insinuation that said "Indoctrination" would be anti-Russia and Pro-Ukraine. In my view that is understandable in light of the actions taken by putin invading Ukraine. I am so not buying the Russian propaganda stating this was a war to fight nazism/poitical domination? seriously? Pot call kettle much vladimir? I personally am not in favor of banishing information. What is needed is truthful unbiased information. A Much harder ask clearly

 

We wholeheartedly agree that war sucks, war is in a word tragic and involves death and destruction. And innocents on both sides will be paying in some cases the ultimate price. And if not death then financial and a ruining of a persons sense of security and Home. Suffering and grieving on both sides. The fact that a person can be evil and have others rationalize and justify it is a given proven in history. And we now live in a nuclear charged world when one false move could well spell catastrophe on a scale as yet unseen in world wide history. Crisis averted AMEN (which means may it be so)

 

This entire situation is a MESS. Im tryin to be thoughtful and real about it in seeking answers and conclusions. I asked for your take because I trust your intellect.

 

Thanks for the reply mate. God help us all.-m

Edited March 10, 2022 by muppy

[John Adams]

Sorry to get back to the details but today's Pentagon briefing on Ukraine continues to convey bad news. The Kyiv main convoy is now 15km out. Another is 40km away and moving closer. 

 

Several cities now isolated. 

 

Not much good news. 

 

 

[Tiberius]

 

[BillStime]

Has Tucker Trump confirmed these talking points yet?

 

 

[BillsFanNC]

 

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

Thank goodness....I've been saving up all of my 'calls for violence' for just such an occasion! 

[Tiberius]

22 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

 

Looks ok 

 

March 10 (Reuters) - Meta Platforms (FB.O) will allow Facebook and Instagram users in some countries to call for violence against Russians and Russian soldiers in the context of the Ukraine invasion, according to internal emails seen by Reuters on Thursday, in a temporary change to its hate speech policy.

The social media company is also temporarily allowing some posts that call for death to Russian President Vladimir Putin or Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko in countries including Russia, Ukraine and Poland, according to internal emails to its content moderators.

 

31 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Has Tucker Trump confirmed these talking points yet?

 

 

Russia probably will use those weapons. And ya, the usual crowd of fascists will blame Biden 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

To be fair, Trump plays whatever side of people he benefits the most from.  He was buddy buddy with Putin while President, and now he says he would stand strong against Putin.  It's all a crock. 

 

Putin was building up his military.  Just so happens that Biden was President once he felt strong enough to attack.  But it's looking like Putin misjudged Ukraine. But Trump being gone had nothing to do with it either way. 

Good Lord, you’re running a word marathon to avoid the simple fact that Putin chose the time and place of this invasion, and that time and place coincided with the presidency of a man with a 5 decade long resume that made his response extremely predictable. 
 

Biden being Biden had everything to do with the timing here.  

[Demongyz]

58 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

Disgusting pieces of trash.

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

 

 

 

Is this f....ing serious?   

 

Wow.

[cle23]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Good Lord, you’re running a word marathon to avoid the simple fact that Putin chose the time and place of this invasion, and that time and place coincided with the presidency of a man with a 5 decade long resume that made his response extremely predictable. 
 

Biden being Biden had everything to do with the timing here.  

 

Nothing to do with a "word marathon." You have your opinions about the timing.  I feel it's just as likely that Putin got away with a lot leading up to this because Trump was practically licking his boots his entire presidency and ignoring everything he was doing.  He ignored our own intelligence agencies reporting bounties on our soldiers and trusted Putin instead.

 

Either way, Putin has been preparing for this a lot longer than 15 months.  You don't have 200,000 troops and war vehicles at the ready just because. And its was ignored entirely but the US, and Europe.

[Big Blitz]

 

Incredible.  

 

Absolutely Incredible.

 

Hostile foreign nations.    

 

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

6 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

So why didn't he just gift Ukraine to Putin?

 

Even Johnny Bolton just said it was because Trump was trying to destroy NATO, which is what Vlad wanted, even though Ukraine wasn't part of NATO.  It's as if they believe everyone is as simple as their followers.

 

1 hour ago, cle23 said:

Nothing to do with a "word marathon." You have your opinions about the timing.  I feel it's just as likely that Putin got away with a lot leading up to this because Trump was practically licking his boots his entire presidency and ignoring everything he was doing.  He ignored our own intelligence agencies reporting bounties on our soldiers and trusted Putin instead.

 

Either way, Putin has been preparing for this a lot longer than 15 months.  You don't have 200,000 troops and war vehicles at the ready just because. And its was ignored entirely but the US, and Europe.

 

He's been steadily building-up since Joey took over.  As for the bounties, that was as false as Russian collusion and Joey's admin even admitted it (well, the bounties part anyway).

[Big Blitz]

Breaking — UN Security Council to hold emergency meeting Friday…

 

 

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The U.N. Security Council scheduled a meeting Friday at Russia’s request to discuss what Moscow claims are “the military biological activities of the U.S. on the territory of Ukraine,” allegations vehemently denied by the Biden administration.

 

“This is exactly the kind of false flag effort we have warned Russia might initiate to justify a biological or chemical weapons attack,” Olivia Dalton, spokesperson for the U.S. Mission to the United Nations said late Thursday. “We’re not going to let Russia gaslight the world or use the U.N. Security Council as a venue for promoting their disinformation.“

 

The Russian request, announced in a tweet Thursday afternoon from its first deputy U.N. ambassador, Dmitry Polyansky, follows the U.S. rejection of Russian accusations that Ukraine is running chemical and biological labs with U.S. support.

 

Pentagon press secretary John Kirby on Wednesday called the Russian claim “a bunch of malarkey.”

 

Dmitry Chumakov, another Russian deputy U.N. ambassador, repeated the accusation Wednesday, urging Western media to cover “the news about secret biological laboratories in Ukraine.”

 

The U.N. announced Thursday evening that the meeting will take place at 10am EST but then pushed it back to 11am EST. U.N. disarmament chief Izumi Nakamitsu and U.N. political chief Rosemary DiCarlo are scheduled to brief the council.

 

https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/breaking-un-security-council-to-hold-emergency-meeting-friday/

 

 

 

"Disinformation" is the Left's version of "Fake News."  

 

When discussing how to continue to dupe morons all over this country, that focused grouped really well plus they saw how much Fake News worked for Trump so they said Let's just shout Disinformation.  

 

Which of course the irony here is that is what continues to make them Fake News to Americans.  

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

Breaking — UN Security Council to hold emergency meeting Friday…

 

 

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The U.N. Security Council scheduled a meeting Friday at Russia’s request to discuss what Moscow claims are “the military biological activities of the U.S. on the territory of Ukraine,” allegations vehemently denied by the Biden administration.

 

“This is exactly the kind of false flag effort we have warned Russia might initiate to justify a biological or chemical weapons attack,” Olivia Dalton, spokesperson for the U.S. Mission to the United Nations said late Thursday. “We’re not going to let Russia gaslight the world or use the U.N. Security Council as a venue for promoting their disinformation.“

 

The Russian request, announced in a tweet Thursday afternoon from its first deputy U.N. ambassador, Dmitry Polyansky, follows the U.S. rejection of Russian accusations that Ukraine is running chemical and biological labs with U.S. support.

 

Pentagon press secretary John Kirby on Wednesday called the Russian claim “a bunch of malarkey.”

 

Dmitry Chumakov, another Russian deputy U.N. ambassador, repeated the accusation Wednesday, urging Western media to cover “the news about secret biological laboratories in Ukraine.”

 

The U.N. announced Thursday evening that the meeting will take place at 10am EST but then pushed it back to 11am EST. U.N. disarmament chief Izumi Nakamitsu and U.N. political chief Rosemary DiCarlo are scheduled to brief the council.

 

https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/breaking-un-security-council-to-hold-emergency-meeting-friday/

 

 

 

"Disinformation" is the Left's version of "Fake News."  

 

When discussing how to continue to dupe morons all over this country, that focused grouped really well plus they saw how much Fake News worked for Trump so they said Let's just shout Disinformation.  

 

Which of course the irony here is that is what continues to make them Fake News to Americans.  

Who is the Left in this example? The UN? The pentagon?  The rest of the known world outside of Russia?  

 

Do you think Lavrovs claims about US biowarfare in Ukraine are credible?

Edited March 11, 2022 by Jauronimo

[John Adams]

What Ukraine needs. 
 

 

[Magox]

There is so much propaganda and disinformation from both sides it’s hard to know what is true or not, specially so war time propaganda.

 

With that said, it’s pretty clear Russia miscalculated.  They thought this was going to be a Crimea Redux, where they would roll in and it would be a lay down within a few days.   Not only did they miscalculate their Military efforts but they underestimated the response by the rest of the world and now their economy is in tatters.   
 

It will take a decade for them to recover.