Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 1 Posted March 1 9 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: As our allies, shouldn’t they have shared more of the burden all along? Why would our allies so willingly let America shoulder the load? All the while our allies have spent more on Russian oil than they have on defense of Ukraine. Another Biden failure. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/24/eu-spends-more-russian-oil-gas-than-financial-aid-ukraine-report In the calendar year 2024, the EU spent 39% more on Russian fossil fuel imports than it set aside for Ukraine. The aid figure does not include military or humanitarian contributions. Vaibhav Raghunandan, an analyst at Crea and coauthor of the report, said: “Purchasing Russian fossil fuels is, quite plainly, akin to sending financial aid to the Kremlin and enabling its invasion. this is a fair criticism. my answer is "they're working on it". they should have moved away from Russian fossil fuels earlier. Renewable energy sources are the long term answer but the money is in fossil fuels. This week BP announced largely dropping renewables because the profit was too low. Lots of hands are in the fossil fuel cookie jar and it gets geopolitically complicated very quickly. Interesting that until Jan 2025, Ukraine and Russia had an agreement to send NG via a Ukrainian pipeline to Europe as detailed here. https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/01/03/europe-russia-ukraine-war-energy-imports-oil-gas-pipeline/
dgrochester55 Posted March 1 Posted March 1 2 minutes ago, 4th&long said: First of all ***** you. Those are not the only options. Stand up to Putin you candy ass. Did you ever consider the possibility (which it's obvious you didn't because it's obvious you have zero thinking ability) that Ukraine won't give up no matter if they have USA support or not? Would you give up if China sends 500,000,000 men on US soil? No, you would fight to the death. The rest of your points ate just weak! Ukraine has already said that they will continue to fight to the end either way. Occupied countries always keep fighting and resisting. I actually agree with you when you say that Putin should be stood up to. I also think that peace talks were necessary to avoid a destructive stalemate for years. Russia's military is depleted and weakened while Ukraine has lost a high percentage of their male population, it is beneficial for both countries to stop the war and I think that both leaders realize this. Without the aid of the US and Europe, Ukraine would have been beaten by mid-2022. If they are able to stay as a nation after all of this, that is a huge loss for Russia who has up to this point had no resistance when going after old soviet and eastern bloc countries. I was on board with the process but yesterday was a disaster. Hopefully both of them can cool down and a deal can still be worked out. When it does, I am sure that Fox will call it the best deal ever while CNN calls it surrendering to Russia. I will look at it myself to see what I think when the time comes. 1
aristocrat Posted March 1 Posted March 1 4 minutes ago, 4th&long said: Totally missed the point. Right over your head. Never mind, now I see how people become trump supporters. So you want Ukraine to fight to the last man? Just millions dead? Such glory in war. Then Ukraine is just a footnote in the history books. 1
JDHillFan Posted March 1 Posted March 1 6 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: this is a fair criticism. my answer is "they're working on it". they should have moved away from Russian fossil fuels earlier. Renewable energy sources are the long term answer but the money is in fossil fuels. This week BP announced largely dropping renewables because the profit was too low. Lots of hands are in the fossil fuel cookie jar and it gets geopolitically complicated very quickly. Interesting that until Jan 2025, Ukraine and Russia had an agreement to send NG via a Ukrainian pipeline to Europe as detailed here. https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/01/03/europe-russia-ukraine-war-energy-imports-oil-gas-pipeline/ The war started three years ago and “they’re working on it” is an acceptable response? Why have our European allies been so willing to have us shoulder the load for three years? As allies, shouldn’t they have done more to help?
Orlando Buffalo Posted March 1 Posted March 1 10 minutes ago, 4th&long said: ***** him. But honestly I do respect teachers. When I was doing a job for one I would always stop and talk to them, I would tell them if I was to do it all over again I would become a teacher mainly because I love kids so much. It's the only only job I could think to do without people thinking you are a pedo. I was always carful expressing my love for children and wanting to work with them because of that. Most reasonable people realize that Ukraine was going to fight to the death no matter what, not a hard concept to grasp. The "iffy" was auto correct changing my words as always. A country "fighting to the death" when a peace accord could be reached is not reasonable, in fact it is insane. 1
4th&long Posted March 1 Posted March 1 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said: A country "fighting to the death" when a peace accord could be reached is not reasonable, in fact it is insane. And you think a peace accord could be reached with a man like Putin lol. You're funny. 1 hour ago, aristocrat said: So you want Ukraine to fight to the last man? Just millions dead? Such glory in war. Then Ukraine is just a footnote in the history books. Did I say Thayer what I wanted them to do? No I don't believe I did. In fact I know I didn't. I told you what they will do, just like you would if you're country was invaded which also went over your head. Or are you a weak candy ass like Trump and just give up. Edited March 1 by 4th&long
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 1 Posted March 1 1 minute ago, 4th&long said: And you think a place accord could be reached with a man like Putin lol. You're funny. it could with the appropriate security guarantees. We know now that trump won't be aiding at all in that regard. without them a "deal" isn't worth the paper it's written on. So Europe will need to provide them. Time for the US to leave the negotiations all together. Just let Europe , Ukraine and russia work it out. Leave orange putin out of it. Take some more of his diminishing world power away.
Orlando Buffalo Posted March 1 Posted March 1 1 minute ago, 4th&long said: And you think a place accord could be reached with a man like Putin lol. You're funny. if no peace is reached Ukraine will continue be destroyed, Ukrainian men will die, and unless the US sends ground troops it will still end up as a Russian win. 1
SCBills Posted March 1 Posted March 1 (edited) This is the Europe that’s got Ukraine’s back if we pull out? Ok.. good luck. Edited March 1 by SCBills
Coffeesforclosers Posted March 1 Posted March 1 1 minute ago, SCBills said: This is the Europe that’s got Ukraine’s back if we pull out? Ok.. good luck. Hahahahahahah Tell me you believe what you're told without telling me. Here's the actual article. It has...nuance. 1
SCBills Posted March 1 Posted March 1 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said: Hahahahahahah Tell me you believe what you're told without telling me. Here's the actual article. It has...nuance. https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/germany-continues-import-russian-natural-gas-through-belgium-and-netherlands https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/germany-cant-shake-russian-gas-lng-purchases-arctic-yamal-project-skyrocket https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Germanys-Imports-of-Russian-LNG-From-Other-EU-Ports-Jump.amp.html https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/01/03/europe-russia-ukraine-war-energy-imports-oil-gas-pipeline/ “In 2024 the EU imported a record 16.5 million metric tons of Russian LNG from Russia…” The only nuance is whether or not they buy Russian energy direct from the source or continue to play games where they still buy it, in increasing amounts as we get further and further from the initial Russian invasion, but in a roundabout way. Edited March 1 by SCBills
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 1 Posted March 1 3 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said: Hahahahahahah Tell me you believe what you're told without telling me. Here's the actual article. It has...nuance. hilarious...but, but it was on Disclose TV! They would never take things out of context or oversimplify. This is a complex, multi faceted issue. Not really in MAGAs wheelhouse.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 1 Posted March 1 5 minutes ago, SCBills said: https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/germany-continues-import-russian-natural-gas-through-belgium-and-netherlands https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/germany-cant-shake-russian-gas-lng-purchases-arctic-yamal-project-skyrocket https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Germanys-Imports-of-Russian-LNG-From-Other-EU-Ports-Jump.amp.html Ah, ok.. “nuance” these links are no germaine to the disclose TV announcement that you posted.
SCBills Posted March 1 Posted March 1 1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: these links are no germaine to the disclose TV announcement that you posted. Germany was always going to go back to Russia. Those talks have already started as that link states. The fact of the matter is, as my next post indicates, Germany (and the EU) really never came off of Russian energy, they just started playing a shell game with it. And as their economies struggle, expect talk of eliminating the shell game and buying direct from the source to get louder and louder. They can talk all they want about standing unified with Ukraine.. without America, they don’t have the stomach or economy to wage that war.
aristocrat Posted March 1 Posted March 1 36 minutes ago, 4th&long said: And you think a peace accord could be reached with a man like Putin lol. You're funny. Did I say Thayer what I wanted them to do? No I don't believe I did. In fact I know I didn't. I told you what they will do, just like you would if you're country was invaded which also went over your head. Or are you a weak candy ass like Trump and just give up. So what exactly do you want to happen with Ukraine? Be very clear 1
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted March 1 Posted March 1 2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: They will. I suppose they thought the US was an actual ally. Now they know better and are looking for a new "leader of the free world". And trump, magazine and Putin are integral to any conversation on Ukraine you idiot. Even more central than zelensky given that Putin invaded Ukraine and every decent, honorable country has condemned Putin for this. Perhaps most disturbing is that the Europeans have nuclear weapons too. WW3 will most likely be started by Putin and not Zelensky as trump dishonestly stated https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-donald-trump-jd-vance-oval-office-white-house-us-ukraine-war-russia/ “There is an aggressor, which is Russia and a people who have suffered aggression, which is Ukraine,” said French President Emmanuel Macron, hitting back at Trump’s attempts to treat the two sides evenly. “You have to respect those who have been fighting since the beginning because they are fighting for their dignity, their independence, for their children, and for the security of Europe.” Macron also noted that the U.S. had not been the only country to support Kyiv, stressing that it was also backed by European countries, Canada and Japan. In the Oval Office, Trump told Zelenskyy his refusal to concede to Russia at the negotiating table was “gambling with World War III.” Later, Macron told Portuguese television: “If someone is playing World War III, his name is Vladimir Putin.” my point there is that I don't think they know what they believe. In fact, like trump, ideology is not really important. Issues are most importantly transactional. what is best for me, right now and their answers are often incorrect, especially long term. right and wrong are unimportant. They will? You and roundy get your talking points from the same mouth piece. Europe should have shouldered the burden from the beginning, not the US. This is not our problem.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 1 Posted March 1 4 minutes ago, SCBills said: Germany was always going to go back to Russia. Those talks have already started as that link states. The fact of the matter is, as my next post indicates, Germany (and the EU) really never came off of Russian energy, they just started playing a shell game with it. And as their economies struggle, expect talk of eliminating the shell game and buying direct from the source to get louder and louder. They can talk all they want about standing unified with Ukraine.. without America, they don’t have the stomach or economy to wage that war. from your last link "The EU hasn't banned imports of Russian LNG or pipeline gas, unlike oil and coal, but it has set a goal to ditch all Russian gas by 2027, to deprive Putin of revenues, and not be dependent on Russia for the fossil fuel ever again." The EU has cut reliance on Russian energy overall, significantly. Yes, people get rich finding loopholes. But they can be closed by ethical governments. Lots of investors see Europe as a better bet than the US right now. I think the odds of "struggling" are about equal especially with impending tariffs and potentially $3 trillion added to the deficit by the recently advanced budget. And again, none of this has anything to do with some former east german companies wanting more Russian energy as disclose sensationalized. I plainly disagree with Europe's economic ability to support Ukraine. It will be a matter of will. I think they have that given the threat of murderous, imperialistic putin...
SCBills Posted March 1 Posted March 1 2 minutes ago, aristocrat said: So what exactly do you want to happen with Ukraine? Be very clear They won’t answer. They never do. They think they have the moral high ground by playing Call of Duty in their head with other peoples lives. They can’t stand to be bothered by the reality of American tax dollars being set on fire so Ukraine and Russia can go town to town, pulling fathers, sons and brothers from their homes to be quickly trained and sent to the front lines where they face the likely horrific dystopian proposition of death by drone. No amount of body bags is too high for them, because they decided during Trump 45 that Russia/Putin is our biggest geopolitical threat. They still think he’s the reason Trump won, therefore they’ll convince themselves Russia wants to take Europe and unless American tax dollars and disposable Ukrainian lives stop them, Russia will be rolling through Paris next year. After all, this is about “protecting democracy” and the zero tolerance for invasions of sovereign nations… I’ll now check this board to find mention of Rwanda/Congo.
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted March 1 Posted March 1 Just now, Trump_is_Mentally_fit said: Good. Let Europe do something for once.
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