Tiberius Posted May 30, 2023 Author Posted May 30, 2023 18 minutes ago, Chris farley said: It is. but it's not him being blown up, shot, incinerated, living in bombed out cities with no services. Yup, but he has the power to stop this madness and death
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 30, 2023 Posted May 30, 2023 19 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Yup, but he has the power to stop this madness and death Sadly, this has past the point where any negotiation or withdrawal is going to happen. 1
Tiberius Posted May 30, 2023 Author Posted May 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Sadly, this has past the point where any negotiation or withdrawal is going to happen. He really just say, "Oops, my bad, we are withdrawing"
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 30, 2023 Posted May 30, 2023 52 minutes ago, Tiberius said: He really just say, "Oops, my bad, we are withdrawing" Realistically we all know that isn't going to happen if the expectation is Russia is going to announce a unilateral and unconditional withdrawal with zero concessions or conditions agreed to by Ukraine and its NATO allies. I'm at a loss to recall or cite any conflict where one side, especially where they perceive themselves to be "winning", did just that. 2
LeviF Posted May 30, 2023 Posted May 30, 2023 On 5/29/2023 at 12:09 PM, SCBills said: I would agree with that. Which is why I posted it with a disclaimer once I saw it going viral. The thing is, it corresponds with Lindsey Graham’s ultra-hawkish rhetoric re: Russia, so it’s believable… whether it’s real or edited, we shall see. It’s not unbelievable by any stretch especially considering several similar DC war pigs have said similar things. Might be a good time to remind those that gloat that Putin has been effectively stalled for 15 months against a professional military with significant arms support that they got their ***** handed to them by a bunch of mountain goat herders whose reading grade level is somewhere near zero. 1
B-Man Posted May 31, 2023 Posted May 31, 2023 Russia Says It Destroys Ukraine's 'Last Warship' US News ^ | May 31, 2023 Russia's defence ministry said on Wednesday that its forces had destroyed what it described as Ukraine's "last warship" two days ago in the port of Odesa in a missile strike, though there was no immediate comment from Kyiv on the fate of the vessel. "The last warship of the Ukrainian navy, the Yuriy Olefirenko, was destroyed at a warship mooring in the port of Odesa," Defence Ministry Spokesman Igor Konashenkov said in a daily briefing on the war. He said the vessel had been hit with "high-precision weapons" - a phrase he uses to mean missiles - on May 29, but gave no further details. Ukraine's armed forces did not immediately respond to a request for comment. (Excerpt) Read more at usnews.com ..https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-05-31/russia-says-it-destroys-ukraines-last-warship On the other hand. . . . . . . . . . . Russia may be devoured by its neighbours MSN ^ | 5-31 Japan was the first country to break its silence after the full-scale invasion of Ukraine last year. Tokyo said of the Kuril Islands that it was “completely unacceptable that the Northern Territories have yet to be returned since the Soviet Union’s illegal occupation of them 77 years ago”. That annexation saw the expulsion of Japanese people from the southern islands, and since then, the countries have failed to reach a compromise. Talks broke down when Putin showed he was not willing to share lands but only to gain new ones. Then China started drawing maps marking part of Siberia and the Russian Far East region as originally Chinese. Great areas of Chinese land were annexed by Russia in the 19th century. Unable to claim this territory back in a peaceful way, Beijing has pursued economic expansion around Baikal and has been actively purchasing and leasing lands near the border. In Poland, there are narratives suggesting that Russia occupied the Kaliningrad region in 1945, and that Warsaw has the right to claim it. Turkey, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and even Ukraine could also stake interests in vying for Russian lands. Russian fighters infiltrating the Belgorod region under the Ukrainian flag served as a reminder to Putin that others could also reclaim their “primordial territories”. Kyiv aims to restore its 1991 borders and end the war. Yet the prospect of exiled Russians on tanks turning Russian border regions into “national republics” is seen as a welcomed payback for Moscow’s deeds in the Donbas. As Moscow pursues the expansion of its European borders, national autonomies in Russia and their exiled leaders envision the decolonization of Russia, dreaming of dividing it into 34 independent states. For now, national liberation movements are absent due to oppression and persecution within Russia. (Excerpt) Read more at msn.com ...https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-may-be-devoured-by-its-neighbours/ar-AA1bVQcE?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=e13961ac755144d6b5b4daf0d32e1c67&ei=7 1
L Ron Burgundy Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 20 hours ago, SCBills said: Lol… This is kind of why I laugh when people say Ukraine is corrupt. They don't realize we are too? Though I did just watch an expert do a show on how most of these are bs. That much of what we send is tracked, and pretty well actually. 1
ChiGoose Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, L Ron Burgundy said: This is kind of why I laugh when people say Ukraine is corrupt. They don't realize we are too? Though I did just watch an expert do a show on how most of these are bs. That much of what we send is tracked, and pretty well actually. Every country is corrupt. Ukraine had a big Russia-like history of corruption. But after 2014, they moved towards wanting to join the West and have started tamping down on it. It still exists, but at least it’s no longer sanctioned. When there’s a bust in Ukraine for corruption, it’s evidence of their history of corruption but also evidence of their recent goal to root it out. It’s very weird that the people shouting about Ukraine corruption keep parroting propaganda from Moscow, which we all know cannot possibly be corrupt… Edited June 2, 2023 by ChiGoose 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: Every country is corrupt. Ukraine had a big Russia-like history of corruption. But after 2014, they moved towards wanting to join the West and have started tamping down on it. It still exists, but at least it’s no longer sanctioned. When there’s a bust in Ukraine for corruption, it’s evidence of their history of corruption but also evidence of their recent goal to root it out. It’s very weird that the people shouting about Ukraine corruption keep parroting propaganda from Moscow, which we all know cannot possibly be corrupt… You say people parroting Russian propaganda but I say people looking at the conflict through a lens of objectivity. Versus the alternative of parroting US/Ukraine propaganda. And I might have missed them but I can't recall any poster claiming Moscow was devoid of corruption. Clearly its not. As for Ukraine I see no evidence of any metric showing less corruption. Just, well propaganda. And speaking of propaganda, you can't tell the truth to Americans shelling out $110 billion that their representatives in Washington are once again pissing away tax dollars on another foriegn adventure failure.
ChiGoose Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said: You say people parroting Russian propaganda but I say people looking at the conflict through a lens of objectivity. Versus the alternative of parroting US/Ukraine propaganda. And I might have missed them but I can't recall any poster claiming Moscow was devoid of corruption. Clearly its not. As for Ukraine I see no evidence of any metric showing less corruption. Just, well propaganda. And speaking of propaganda, you can't tell the truth to Americans shelling out $110 billion that their representatives in Washington are once again pissing away tax dollars on another foriegn adventure failure. Please provide the metrics that you state show there is not less corruption. 1
L Ron Burgundy Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 7 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: You say people parroting Russian propaganda but I say people looking at the conflict through a lens of objectivity. Versus the alternative of parroting US/Ukraine propaganda. And I might have missed them but I can't recall any poster claiming Moscow was devoid of corruption. Clearly its not. As for Ukraine I see no evidence of any metric showing less corruption. Just, well propaganda. And speaking of propaganda, you can't tell the truth to Americans shelling out $110 billion that their representatives in Washington are once again pissing away tax dollars on another foriegn adventure failure. It's easy to just state that anything that disagrees with your narrative is propaganda. Ukraine's corruption problem is because of Russia. A large amount of Ukrainians believe corruption is part of their social culture and that is 100% due to being under the USSR's communist thumb. Just distancing themselves from Russia will result in an improvement. Every former eastern European communist state has already seen this happen, get away from Russia and things normalize. There are many examples to choose from. You don't want to give money to Ukraine? Ok. But believing silly Kremlin propaganda to explain why is a bad look. 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 2 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said: It's easy to just state that anything that disagrees with your narrative is propaganda. Ukraine's corruption problem is because of Russia. A large amount of Ukrainians believe corruption is part of their social culture and that is 100% due to being under the USSR's communist thumb. Just distancing themselves from Russia will result in an improvement. Every former eastern European communist state has already seen this happen, get away from Russia and things normalize. There are many examples to choose from. You don't want to give money to Ukraine? Ok. But believing silly Kremlin propaganda to explain why is a bad look. I'm not believing any propaganda. Anyone thinking this war is about bringing democracy to Ukraine is believing propaganda. The neocons and neoliberals in Washington don't care about democracy. To prove this point we can cite a number of countries the US supports where democracy is non-extent. Lots of happy dictators getting lots of aid and lots of weapons as long as they play ball. And if they don't like in Syria, they get leaned on. Or overthrow through engineered coups like in Kiev in 2014. US involvement is all about inflicting costs and consequences on Russia for opposing the U.S. system. Some officials in what was perhaps a moment of weakness have admitted to this fact. But its not working. Russia doesn't appear weakened. Look to the foreign exchange markets for confirmation. And the price of oil. Russia, and China, announce economic and cooperative deal after deal with other countries. The Biden administration sits idly while we become weaker. I believe Washington is wasting $110 billion on an adventure that's sure to fail like all of the other nation building exercises have failed before, while there are so many other domestic priorities that could use the funding being ignored. And cooperative arrangements around the world available without the need to blow things up being left on the table for Russia and China to take. Its going to be Afghanistan 2.0, wait and see. 1
ChiGoose Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm not believing any propaganda. Anyone thinking this war is about bringing democracy to Ukraine is believing propaganda. The neocons and neoliberals in Washington don't care about democracy. To prove this point we can cite a number of countries the US supports where democracy is non-extent. Lots of happy dictators getting lots of aid and lots of weapons as long as they play ball. And if they don't like in Syria, they get leaned on. Or overthrow through engineered coups like in Kiev in 2014. US involvement is all about inflicting costs and consequences on Russia for opposing the U.S. system. Some officials in what was perhaps a moment of weakness have admitted to this fact. But its not working. Russia doesn't appear weakened. Look to the foreign exchange markets for confirmation. And the price of oil. Russia, and China, announce economic and cooperative deal after deal with other countries. The Biden administration sits idly while we become weaker. I believe Washington is wasting $110 billion on an adventure that's sure to fail like all of the other nation building exercises have failed before, while there are so many other domestic priorities that could use the funding being ignored. And cooperative arrangements around the world available without the need to blow things up being left on the table for Russia and China to take. Its going to be Afghanistan 2.0, wait and see. The war is about Putin trying to restore the Russian Empire / USSR. It’s why he invaded Georgia. It’s why he invaded Ukraine in 2014. It’s why he invaded Ukraine this time. It’s why he probably would invade Transnistria if he is successful in Ukraine. That’s it. That’s why there is a war. The question is, what do we want to do about it? You seem to be fine with Putin steamrolling sovereign nations. I think it’s in our strategic interest to deter such actions. 1 1 2
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 46 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: The war is about Putin trying to restore the Russian Empire / USSR. It’s why he invaded Georgia. It’s why he invaded Ukraine in 2014. It’s why he invaded Ukraine this time. It’s why he probably would invade Transnistria if he is successful in Ukraine. That’s it. That’s why there is a war. The question is, what do we want to do about it? You seem to be fine with Putin steamrolling sovereign nations. I think it’s in our strategic interest to deter such actions. Restoring the Empire? Everyone knows that's never going to happen. What else you got? 1
L Ron Burgundy Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm not believing any propaganda. Anyone thinking this war is about bringing democracy to Ukraine is believing propaganda. The neocons and neoliberals in Washington don't care about democracy. To prove this point we can cite a number of countries the US supports where democracy is non-extent. Lots of happy dictators getting lots of aid and lots of weapons as long as they play ball. And if they don't like in Syria, they get leaned on. Or overthrow through engineered coups like in Kiev in 2014. US involvement is all about inflicting costs and consequences on Russia for opposing the U.S. system. Some officials in what was perhaps a moment of weakness have admitted to this fact. But its not working. Russia doesn't appear weakened. Look to the foreign exchange markets for confirmation. And the price of oil. Russia, and China, announce economic and cooperative deal after deal with other countries. The Biden administration sits idly while we become weaker. I believe Washington is wasting $110 billion on an adventure that's sure to fail like all of the other nation building exercises have failed before, while there are so many other domestic priorities that could use the funding being ignored. And cooperative arrangements around the world available without the need to blow things up being left on the table for Russia and China to take. Its going to be Afghanistan 2.0, wait and see. "I dont believe any propaganda" followed by a response with propaganda. You have zero proof the coup was engineered. Just pure conjecture. I don't doubt we helped (in small ways not leading the charge) but it was most definitely not engineered. Inflicting costs and consequences, yeah makes sense. Just now, All_Pro_Bills said: Restoring the Empire? Everyone knows that's never going to happen. What else you got? Putin doesn't know that. He thought they were going to be welcomed in Ukraine. As smart as he was, his yes men are afraid to say no so their intelligence is completely f'd. It's more than restoring Ussr but that's a big part. 1 1 1
ChiGoose Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Restoring the Empire? Everyone knows that's never going to happen. What else you got? Does Putin know that? The guy has surrounded himself with yes-men for the last couple of decades. He thought Ukraine would be a cakewalk. He has publicly lamented the fall of the USSR and “historical Russia.” Putin grew up in the KGB and after the fall of the USSR he apparently had to moonlight as a taxi cab driver to make ends meet. Now he’s old, there are rumors about his health and Russia is no longer the player it once was. He came to power through the war in Chechnya. He invaded Georgia. He invaded Ukraine twice. He clearly has eyes on Transnistria. This is what he does to consolidate power. That it seems to have backfired this time is both a sign of a man who has isolated himself from any criticism and the problems of running a kleptocracy. 1 1
L Ron Burgundy Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 6 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Does Putin know that? The guy has surrounded himself with yes-men for the last couple of decades. He thought Ukraine would be a cakewalk. He has publicly lamented the fall of the USSR and “historical Russia.” Putin grew up in the KGB and after the fall of the USSR he apparently had to moonlight as a taxi cab driver to make ends meet. Now he’s old, there are rumors about his health and Russia is no longer the player it once was. He came to power through the war in Chechnya. He invaded Georgia. He invaded Ukraine twice. He clearly has eyes on Transnistria. This is what he does to consolidate power. That it seems to have backfired this time is both a sign of a man who has isolated himself from any criticism and the problems of running a kleptocracy. No no no. Putin's a good guy though all that is true. It's all just a deep state plot, ours and theirs. You can tell some of these people that post here have brains but they fall for absurd propaganda and conspiracy. It's beyond abnormal. Why do they not just leave it at I don't want yo give money or weapons away? 1
Tommy Callahan Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said: No no no. Putin's a good guy though all that is true. It's all just a deep state plot, ours and theirs. You can tell some of these people that post here have brains but they fall for absurd propaganda and conspiracy. It's beyond abnormal. Why do they not just leave it at I don't want yo give money or weapons away? yeah. cause us supporting/funding/starting wars all over the world for the last half a century is some grand conspiracy. The MIC and its funding of our politicians is pure conspiracy. like crazy. no way does that happen.
ChiGoose Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 1 minute ago, Chris farley said: yeah. cause us supporting/funding/starting wars all over the world for the last half a century is some grand conspiracy. The MIC and its funding of our politicians is pure conspiracy. like crazy. no way does that happen. This war was started by Russia, not the US.
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