Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Coffeesforclosers]

Finland joined NATO yesterday.

 

Sweden's application is still hung up thanks to objections by Hungary and Turkey.  Sweden's had dealings with various Kurdish groups that Turkey doesn't like. Hungary has been consistently... sympathetic shall we say... to Russian interests while trying to preserve its NATO/EU ties. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Coffeesforclosers

[B-Man]

 

The Biden handlers won't like this.

 

Finally, a Way Forward for Peace in Ukraine?

BY STEPHEN GREEN 

 

 

There might be the first light coming through the door to peace in Ukraine that both sides slammed shut shortly before the war began.

 

Waging peace is never easy, but the Ukraine War might be particularly tricky. On the one side, you have a country that wants to annex or subjugate 100% of its neighbor. On the other, you have a country that wants the invaders 100% out. Then there are the parts of the invaded country — Crimea, Donbas — who’d rather be part of the invading country.

 

Complicating things further, while both peoples are generally decent, well-educated, and hard-working, both governments fairly well suck. Kyiv is generally corrupt and inept, and Putin’s Kremlin is corrupt and basically evil.

 

Then you have the complex history of Ukraine’s centuries-long subjugation under Russia’s boot (including the Holocaust-size Holodomor against Ukraine in the 1930s), that Ukrainians can’t afford to risk again. And you have Russia, with dreams of restored imperial glory, starting with subjugating Ukraine once more.

 

If all that didn’t make peace in Ukraine seem hopeless enough already, the current war (which really began in 2014) has seen such atrocities that attitudes have hardened and turned more bitter than ever.

 

Nevertheless, Kyiv has opened that door just a tiny crack, indicating that they might be willing to put Russian-held Crimea (illegally seized in 2014) on the negotiating table. “Kyiv is willing to discuss the future of Crimea with Moscow,” Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s deputy Andriy Sybiha told Financial Times, “if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula.”

 

This is the first time since 2014 that anyone in Kyiv has said that anything less than a complete Russian withdrawal to the internationally recognized borders of 1991 would be acceptable.

 

There are caveats. Three, in fact.

 

{SNIP}

 

The Biden Administration has shown zero interest in working the peace process, but Beijing has. As I’m writing this, there’s a “geopolitical coup” [VIP link] going on in the Middle East, where China has “orchestrated a meeting in Beijing between the two Muslim powerhouses” Saudi Arabia and Iran. The China-sponsored summit comes on the heels of Beijing getting the two countries to reestablish diplomatic relations.

 

If Washington sits this one out, as it seems likely to do, postwar Ukraine might very well end up in China’s orbit.

 

Winston Churchill noted that “jaw, jaw is better than war, war,” but now that Kyiv is indicating it might be ready to seriously talk, we’ll see if our own government is willing to listen.

 

https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/2023/04/06/finally-a-way-forward-for-peace-in-ukraine-n1684941

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or fake plans leaked on purpose? 

20 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

The Biden handlers won't like this.

 

Finally, a Way Forward for Peace in Ukraine?

BY STEPHEN GREEN 

 

 

There might be the first light coming through the door to peace in Ukraine that both sides slammed shut shortly before the war began.

 

Waging peace is never easy, but the Ukraine War might be particularly tricky. On the one side, you have a country that wants to annex or subjugate 100% of its neighbor. On the other, you have a country that wants the invaders 100% out. Then there are the parts of the invaded country — Crimea, Donbas — who’d rather be part of the invading country.

 

Complicating things further, while both peoples are generally decent, well-educated, and hard-working, both governments fairly well suck. Kyiv is generally corrupt and inept, and Putin’s Kremlin is corrupt and basically evil.

 

Then you have the complex history of Ukraine’s centuries-long subjugation under Russia’s boot (including the Holocaust-size Holodomor against Ukraine in the 1930s), that Ukrainians can’t afford to risk again. And you have Russia, with dreams of restored imperial glory, starting with subjugating Ukraine once more.

 

If all that didn’t make peace in Ukraine seem hopeless enough already, the current war (which really began in 2014) has seen such atrocities that attitudes have hardened and turned more bitter than ever.

 

Nevertheless, Kyiv has opened that door just a tiny crack, indicating that they might be willing to put Russian-held Crimea (illegally seized in 2014) on the negotiating table. “Kyiv is willing to discuss the future of Crimea with Moscow,” Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s deputy Andriy Sybiha told Financial Times, “if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula.”

 

This is the first time since 2014 that anyone in Kyiv has said that anything less than a complete Russian withdrawal to the internationally recognized borders of 1991 would be acceptable.

 

There are caveats. Three, in fact.

 

{SNIP}

 

The Biden Administration has shown zero interest in working the peace process, but Beijing has. As I’m writing this, there’s a “geopolitical coup” [VIP link] going on in the Middle East, where China has “orchestrated a meeting in Beijing between the two Muslim powerhouses” Saudi Arabia and Iran. The China-sponsored summit comes on the heels of Beijing getting the two countries to reestablish diplomatic relations.

 

If Washington sits this one out, as it seems likely to do, postwar Ukraine might very well end up in China’s orbit.

 

Winston Churchill noted that “jaw, jaw is better than war, war,” but now that Kyiv is indicating it might be ready to seriously talk, we’ll see if our own government is willing to listen.

 

https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/2023/04/06/finally-a-way-forward-for-peace-in-ukraine-n1684941

PJ "media" phlegm 

[Doc]

22 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now which Joke garage were those kept in...

[All_Pro_Bills]

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Now which Joke garage were those kept in...

Whatever the Biden administration's plan is, given thier perfect record, its 100% guaranteed to fail.

 

[Tiberius]

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Whatever the Biden administration's plan is, given thier perfect record, its 100% guaranteed to fail.

 

That's what Putin is thinking, and he has that great track record, lol 

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

That's what Putin is thinking, and he has that great track record, lol 

 

 

It's clear nobody knows what Putin is thinking.  Certainly not anyone in Washington.

[ChiGoose]

Gee, I wonder why Ukraine might not want to negotiate for peace with Russia right now…
 

 

[Tiberius]

 

[Tommy Callahan]

the leaked documents about the ukraine/nato spring offensive is interesting. hard to tell if its just war propaganda, or something more.

 

either way it sure counterriots what we read in the news about Ukraine.

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

On 4/11/2023 at 7:47 AM, Chris farley said:

the leaked documents about the Ukraine/nato spring offensive is interesting. hard to tell if its just war propaganda, or something more.

 

either way it sure counteracts what we read in the news about Ukraine.

 

 

Ukraine war: Leak shows Western special forces on the ground

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65245065

 

 

.

[Roundybout]

 

[reddogblitz]

16 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

Ukraine war: Leak shows Western special forces on the ground

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65245065

 

 

.

 

 

[ALF]

Washington Post: Person behind leaked Pentagon documents worked on military base

The leaker, described in the Post story as a lonely young man and gun enthusiast, was part of a chatroom of about two dozen people on Discord – a social media platform popular with video gamers – that shared a love of guns and military gear, The Post reported, citing an interview with the leaker’s friend who was also part of the group.

 

The friend told the Post he would not reveal the identity of the alleged leaker or their location to authorities.

The leaker, going by the moniker “OG,” began posting messages to the Discord chatroom last year that referenced military jargon, The Post reported. In the months that followed, the leaker posted messages in which he appeared to transcribe classified information from US documents, according to the report.

 

“They were, he recalled, what appeared to be near-verbatim transcripts of classified intelligence documents that OG indicated he had brought home from his job on a ‘military base,’ which the member declined to identify,” the Post reported, referring to messages posted by the anonymous user.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/13/politics/pentagon-leaked-documents-military-base/index.html

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/leaker-classified-us-intelligence-works-military-base-posted-documents-discord-report

 

maybe or maybe not

Edited April 13, 2023 by ALF

[All_Pro_Bills]

3 hours ago, ALF said:

Washington Post: Person behind leaked Pentagon documents worked on military base

The leaker, described in the Post story as a lonely young man and gun enthusiast, was part of a chatroom of about two dozen people on Discord – a social media platform popular with video gamers – that shared a love of guns and military gear, The Post reported, citing an interview with the leaker’s friend who was also part of the group.

 

The friend told the Post he would not reveal the identity of the alleged leaker or their location to authorities.

The leaker, going by the moniker “OG,” began posting messages to the Discord chatroom last year that referenced military jargon, The Post reported. In the months that followed, the leaker posted messages in which he appeared to transcribe classified information from US documents, according to the report.

 

“They were, he recalled, what appeared to be near-verbatim transcripts of classified intelligence documents that OG indicated he had brought home from his job on a ‘military base,’ which the member declined to identify,” the Post reported, referring to messages posted by the anonymous user.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/13/politics/pentagon-leaked-documents-military-base/index.html

 

maybe or maybe not

To translate into a combination of Left-Speak and "never let a good crisis go to waste".  The story will play out as an impressionable gun totting loner that was radicalized into leaking sensitive government information through consuming hate speech expressed by the one and only Donald Trump.  Imaginative but also predicable.   

[B-Man]

 

 

 

That's all ???

 

That's a bargain.

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

6 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

That's all ???

 

That's a bargain.

 

 

Is there a list of loser political bloggers on some far right site?  where do you find these idiots
??  Kim Dotcom...looks like a great fella

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom

Edited April 13, 2023 by redtail hawk

[ChiGoose]

On 4/12/2023 at 9:13 AM, Roundybout said:

 

And yet many here are wondering why Ukraine won’t cede territory to these people to achieve “peace”

[Roundybout]

16 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

Is there a list of loser political bloggers on some far right site?  where do you find these idiots
??  Kim Dotcom...looks like a great fella

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom

Dude looks like a milk dud