SoCal Deek Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 On 4/20/2022 at 8:13 PM, Coffeesforclosers said: A fraud of a superpower based on petrodollars, mountains of rusting Soviet weapons and a few hi tech toys, and bluffing. Expand So I guess the question is why doesn’t the west seem to know that?
sherpa Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 On 4/20/2022 at 9:31 PM, SoCal Deek said: So I guess the question is why doesn’t the west seem to know that? Expand They still have lot of really lethal stuff. 1
SoCal Deek Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 On 4/20/2022 at 10:12 PM, sherpa said: They still have lot of really lethal stuff. Expand I assume you mean nuclear weapons? 1
Coffeesforclosers Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 On 4/20/2022 at 9:31 PM, SoCal Deek said: So I guess the question is why doesn’t the west seem to know that? Expand We only just learned. Instead of knocking over some tiny, 3rd world country, Russia thought it could roll over a real military supported by a determined, patriotic people and their government. Of the three things I mentioned, the bluff part was the most important. Nobody, not Bush, Obama, or Trump ever called it, and Biden only got to call it by accident. 1
SoCal Deek Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 On 4/20/2022 at 11:44 PM, Coffeesforclosers said: We only just learned. Instead of knocking over some tiny, 3rd world country, Russia thought it could roll over a real military supported by a determined, patriotic people and their government. Of the three things I mentioned, the bluff part was the most important. Nobody, not Bush, Obama, or Trump ever called it, and Biden only got to call it by accident. Expand So we’re paying millions and millions of my tax dollars for satellites and so called intelligence and we didn’t know their capabilities? Really? I’m guessing we actually did, and nobody wanted to say it. Far easier for the military industrial complex to sell arms if they can convince the legislature that Russia is a super power. 1
Warcodered Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 On 4/20/2022 at 11:48 PM, SoCal Deek said: So we’re paying millions and millions of my tax dollars for satellites and so called intelligence and we didn’t know their capabilities? Really? I’m guessing we actually did, and nobody wanted to say it. Far easier for the military industrial complex to sell arms if they can convince the legislature that Russia is a super power. Expand Only one part of their military actually has to work for them to stay an obnoxious boulder in the path of world progress.
SoCal Deek Posted April 21, 2022 Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/20/2022 at 11:56 PM, Warcodered said: Only one part of their military actually has to work for them to stay an obnoxious boulder in the path of world progress. Expand I completely disagree. We’re watching a pretty nice country be shelled to dust for NOTHING….and not a single nuclear weapon has left the launch pad. 1
Warcodered Posted April 21, 2022 Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 12:02 AM, SoCal Deek said: I completely disagree. We’re watching a pretty nice country be shelled to dust for NOTHING….and not a single nuclear weapon has left the launch pad. Expand Why would they use nuclear weapons in this war? Are you saying they would never use them, so we'd be free to intervene without Armageddon hanging over our heads?
SoCal Deek Posted April 21, 2022 Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 12:08 AM, Warcodered said: Why would they use nuclear weapons in this war? Are you saying they would never use them, so we'd be free to intervene without Armageddon hanging over our heads? Expand They wouldn’t use them ! Which is why our response to this unprovoked attack on a sovereign country has been nothing short of pathetic. 2
sherpa Posted April 21, 2022 Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/20/2022 at 11:48 PM, SoCal Deek said: So we’re paying millions and millions of my tax dollars for satellites and so called intelligence and we didn’t know their capabilities? Really? I’m guessing we actually did, and nobody wanted to say it. Far easier for the military industrial complex to sell arms if they can convince the legislature that Russia is a super power. Expand It isn't that simple. The Russians have a lot of very capable military equipment. Their weapons are first tier in almost every area. Intel only gets you so far. You have little information on their command and control and how they integrate forces until you see those in action, and that has been pathetic. The problem is that incompetence cannot be assumed. There have always been hints of it. For example, when the then Soviets shot down KAL 007 in 1983, we had the audio of the entire operation from monitoring assets. I remember listening to the translation within a few days and was shocked at how incompetent it sounded. Absolutely nothing like our integration. Of course they lied about the entire thing, but that's the way that country has always done things. Still, their "stuff," always stolen from our designs, is first rate in almost every area, carrier aviation being the one true exception. They have no professional enlisted group, unlike our NCO personnel. They clearly do not train for damage control. Because of money constraints, their pilots fly way less than ours do, to the point of really not being able to be mission effective. It seems they have very few precision guided munitions. No ground to air coordination. Nonetheless, you can't assume incapability. 1
Warcodered Posted April 21, 2022 Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 1:19 AM, SoCal Deek said: They wouldn’t use them ! Which is why our response to this unprovoked attack on a sovereign country has been nothing short of pathetic. Expand That's an awfully big gamble to take. 1
Trump_is_Mentally_fit Posted April 21, 2022 Author Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 1:19 AM, SoCal Deek said: They wouldn’t use them ! Which is why our response to this unprovoked attack on a sovereign country has been nothing short of pathetic. Expand Yes
All_Pro_Bills Posted April 21, 2022 Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 5:59 AM, Warcodered said: That's an awfully big gamble to take. Expand And taking the risk of a potential nuclear exchange to directly engage in a war for non-strategic interests isn't good policy.
BillStime Posted April 21, 2022 Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 12:44 PM, All_Pro_Bills said: And taking the risk of a potential nuclear exchange to directly engage in a war for non-strategic interests isn't good policy. Expand Non strategic? How much does Putin pay you?
All_Pro_Bills Posted April 21, 2022 Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) On 4/21/2022 at 1:07 PM, BillStime said: Non strategic? How much does Putin pay you? Expand Putin? Stop playing the village idiot here. But okay, articulate the U.S. strategic interest in Ukraine beyond the democracy myth. What is so strategic and important to put the lives of US service personnel at risk? Edited April 21, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills
BillStime Posted April 21, 2022 Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 1:12 PM, All_Pro_Bills said: Putin? Stop playing the village idiot here. But okay, articulate the U.S. strategic interest in Ukraine beyond the democracy myth. Expand It’s not a myth to our NATO allies PS: Putin sends his love
All_Pro_Bills Posted April 21, 2022 Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 1:15 PM, BillStime said: It’s not a myth to our NATO allies PS: Putin sends his love Expand I asked about American strategic interests. What is so important to risk a nuclear exchange and the lives of our military personnel to get involved in a direct confrontation? What strategic asset or support does Ukraine supply to America? What difference in the lives of American's would it make if Ukraine was independent, or aligned with the West, or aligned with Russia?
SoCal Deek Posted April 21, 2022 Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 12:44 PM, All_Pro_Bills said: And taking the risk of a potential nuclear exchange to directly engage in a war for non-strategic interests isn't good policy. Expand So you just stay out of it altogether. What we’re doing now is ridiculous. 1
BillStime Posted April 21, 2022 Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 1:22 PM, All_Pro_Bills said: I asked about American strategic interests. What is so important to risk a nuclear exchange and the lives of our military personnel to get involved in a direct confrontation? What strategic asset or support does Ukraine supply to America? What difference in the lives of American's would it make if Ukraine was independent, or aligned with the West, or aligned with Russia? Expand So the world should just sit idly by watching a dictator destroy a sovereign country that sits as a boundary between communism and democracy? I'm sorry the cult has conditioned you to think the only way to WIN is to implement a right wing authoritarian model for the United States. It's no secret that authoritarians is on the rise here (thank you Trump voters) and around the globe... We will stop you. 1 2 1
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