Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[ALF]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

So you’re saying they targeted children?  So what are your thoughts about Dresden?  I assume you’re good with it because of the reasons for it. I’m torn about that one. 

 

Dresden , Hiroshima , Nagasaki , holocaust , Stalin , Mao,  WWl and ll ,  the point is don't start a war.

[Beast]

1 hour ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

OK ???

 

If you don't see the relevance that's on you. 

[BuffaninSarasota]

Just now, Beast said:

 

If you don't see the relevance that's on you. 

 

nothing's "on" me

[aristocrat]

10 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

So you’re saying they targeted children?  So what are your thoughts about Dresden?  I assume you’re good with it because of the reasons for it. I’m torn about that one. 

So are we just gonna talk all the time civilians were killed in war? Do you really care if some oligarch who stole money through force and is using it now to gain more power gets killed to end a war?

[BillStime]

17 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Where were they when he invaded Crimea in 2014?

Is/was Ukraine part of NATO?

[John Adams]

2 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

No joke, Marco Rubio's Twitter is a gold mine.  He's posting vetted information from his Senate intelligence briefings.

 

Anyway, he said Putin's plan was to win the war in 48 hours by seizing Kyiv and all Ukraine's leaders.  They'd be dealt with in a suitably Russian way, and replaced with a puppet government of Russian backed Ukrainian traitors.  Then the Russian army would leave because they've got more operations planned.

 

 

 

It's only been 2 days. He may have wanted to do in 2 days but 2 days or 2 weeks is still nothing to take a national capitol. And Russia is by many reports still moving forward reinforcements while Kyiv can't get access to more supplies. 

 

I do suspect Putin underestimated the lack of internal support for this and external unity against. The America First rally last night featured "Putin" chants and a speaker applauding Russia in his introductory remarks for MTG but most of the world is solidly against Russia right now. He has tanked his economy for a long time (or until at least an Operation Valykrie deals with him and someone more sane takes over). 

 

This move appears so far to have been a queen-losing blunder in the 4D chess many here at PPP claim that he plays. 

[BillStime]

17 hours ago, Doc said:

 

And as culpable as Joey is, I agree, let's figure out how to win.

 

 

 

Well what do you know?  It worked!  The US didn't pull out of NATO, the other members are paying more, and while a few feathers may have been ruffled, it will still work just like before.

Thank god Americans responded and voted the traitor in chief OUTin a landslide in 2020.

 

Otherwise - NATO would already be shot and Ukraine would have been handed to Putin on a gold toilet.

 

 

16 hours ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

what a logical, conciliatory statement

 

refreshing because this place can be downright uncivil via the keyboard warriors on this board 

Irony is dead 

[aristocrat]

42 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

So you’re saying they targeted children?  So what are your thoughts about Dresden?  I assume you’re good with it because of the reasons for it. I’m torn about that one. 

Are we not supposed to learn from the past? Don’t start wars that have endless death. Execute the #######s that start them and save the innocents. Lot less death 

[Big Blitz]

10 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Is/was Ukraine part of NATO?

 

 

No.  That's not the point. 

 

You said Trump weakened NATO - without evidence 

 

You keep blaming Trump for something NATO isn't responsible for defending.  So how did he weaken them? 

 

If you didn't blame Obama for anything regarding Crimea, Russia (and Obama telling you the 80s called and would like their foreign policy back*) then you really need to just stfu about what Mother Russia is doing.  Because you "people" and their policies have Emboldened Vlad....not Trump. 

 

 

 

*Obama flat out told you what they think of Russia.  Go back to that debate in 2012 and let that sink in for a minute.  

[John Adams]

11 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Thank god Americans responded and voted the traitor in chief OUTin a landslide in 2020.

 

Otherwise - NATO would already be shot and Ukraine would have been handed to Putin on a gold toilet.

 

 

Trump and Biden aren't responsible for this mess dumbass. 

3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

No.  That's not the point. 

 

You said Trump weakened NATO - without evidence 

 

You keep blaming Trump for something NATO isn't responsible for defending.  So how did he weaken them? 

 

If you didn't blame Obama for anything regarding Crimea, Russia (and Obama telling you the 80s called and would like their foreign policy back*) then you really need to just stfu about what Mother Russia is doing.  Because you "people" and their policies have Emboldened Vlad....not Trump. 

 

 

 

*Obama flat out told you what they think of Russia.  Go back to that debate in 2012 and let that sink in for a minute.  

 

See above dumbass #2. 

[SCBills]

We are all rooting for Ukraine, but it is getting really difficult to not notice the manipulation on behalf of our media under the guise of “fog of war”.  
 

Why must every report, every story, be unconfirmed or patently false.  
 

3,500 Russians killed in 3 days?… I highly doubt it.   
 

Two transport planes shot down?  Where’s the footage?  We have more phones/videos than any war ever, yet no one has footage of this just outside Kyiv?

 

Did Snake Island happen or not?

 

Ghost of Kyiv never happened.  
 

“Putin is sick” with no evidence.  
 

“Russia is struggling” ok, maybe.. hopefully… but why have they only sent in 50% (by our estimations) of their assembled soldiers?

So much doesn’t add up.  

Good thread ⬇️⬇️⬇️
 

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by SCBills

[Coffeesforclosers]

The big question is I think is why Russia didn't hit Ukraine with everything they had, all at once.  They still tried to end the war in 48 hours, but using only a fifth to a quarter of their available forces.

 

Why commit so little of your available combat power to THE critical operation of the war?  And if you only think you need 30-40,000 troops, why mobilize almost 200,000? A professional military should be smarter than this. It's like if Manny Pacquiao wanted to fight me, trained for a year to fight me,  but Manny Pacquiao decided to tie one hand behind his back and hop on one leg just because.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers

[Chef Jim]

57 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Are we not supposed to learn from the past? Don’t start wars that have endless death. Execute the #######s that start them and save the innocents. Lot less death 

So reduce deaths with more deaths?  You have a lot to learn about human behavior. 

[SCBills]

I’m watching Fox, and they are talking about Russian misinformation and this the reporting..

 

RT is showing footage of unharmed Ukrainians (Snake Island) who are being fed and put on busses back to their families.  And that may be true, but is diametrically opposed to what we’re seeing elsewhere in Ukraine and what we’re hearing from Ukrainian media.  
 

Ok… so the footage/reporting may be true, but it’s also “misinformation”?   
 

I understand we’re pulling for Ukraine, but why do we explicitly believe them?  Zelenskyy said those on Snake Island were killed… but it seems they were not. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

26 minutes ago, SCBills said:

We are all rooting for Ukraine, but it is getting really difficult to not notice the manipulation on behalf of our media under the guise of “fog of war”.  
 

Why must every report, every story, be unconfirmed or patently false.  
 

3,500 Russians killed in 3 days?… I highly doubt it.   
 

Two transport planes shot down?  Where’s the footage?  We have more phones/videos than any war ever, yet no one has footage of this just outside Kyiv?

 

Did Snake Island happen or not?

 

Ghost of Kyiv never happened.  
 

“Putin is sick” with no evidence.  
 

“Russia is struggling” ok, maybe.. hopefully… but why have they only sent in 50% (by our estimations) of their assembled soldiers?

So much doesn’t add up.  

Good thread ⬇️⬇️⬇️
 

 

There's so many videos of Russian "soldiers" just standing around crying or being taken by a couple people with no resistance. One had a "soldier" call their parents back in Russia to say they've been captured and their parents didn't have a clue they were in Ukraine. 

 

It's all very weird. 

[SCBills]

Just now, Not at the table Karlos said:

There's so many videos of Russian "soldiers" just standing around crying or being taken by a couple people with no resistance. One had a "soldier" call their parents back in Russia to say they've been captured and their parents didn't have a clue they were in Ukraine. 

 

It's all very weird. 

Agreed.  We’re also seeing War on Terror vibes where if you question narrative, you’re a traitor/rooting for the enemy.  
 

Sorry, but this war does not make any sense.  So much reporting is false and it’s all coming across as a psyop. 
 

Russia is clearly no sympathetic figure, but wtf is really going on here?

[BillStime]

16 hours ago, Precision said:

I have to wonder if NATO members had kept their defense spending commitments would Russia have still invaded Ukraine? An extra 1-1.5 percent of GDP doesn't sound like much but over 20 years you're talking a lot of capability.

 

Even if Germany had kept its nuclear reactors so it was not so dependent on Russian gas this could be a different scenario.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 but it's hard to believe after Crimea no NATO members would have thought to react and make military or economic shifts.

Awe it’s our little KBG keyboard warrior aka wannabe @Frat Train spewing his Deranged right wing garbage.

 

Trump wanted to weaken NATO and did.

 

Trump wanted to divide us domestically and abroad and he did.

 

Trump reduced troops in Europe.

 

Trump met privately with Putin and destroyed his notes.

 

Trump delayed funding to Ukraine to see if he could get away with it and ask for favors.

 

All roads lead to Putin and it’s disingenuous and hackish not to admit it…

 

But of course we all know you’re here for JUSTICE.

[sherpa]

23 minutes ago, SCBills said:

We are all rooting for Ukraine, but it is getting really difficult to not notice the manipulation on behalf of our media under the guise of “fog of war”.  
 

Why must every report, every story, be unconfirmed or patently false.  
 

3,500 Russians killed in 3 days?… I highly doubt it.   
 

Two transport planes shot down?  Where’s the footage?  We have more phones/videos than any war ever, yet no one has footage of this just outside Kyiv?

 

Did Snake Island happen or not?

 

Ghost of Kyiv never happened.  
 

“Putin is sick” with no evidence.  
 

“Russia is struggling” ok, maybe.. hopefully… but why have they only sent in 50% (by our estimations) of their assembled soldiers?

So much doesn’t add up.  

Good thread ⬇️⬇️⬇️
 

 

 

I couldn't agree more.

I have been very suspicious of claims made because lack of evidence and the fact that what is claimed makes no military sense.

Either Putin/Russian are the stupidest strategists in history, or something else is up.

This "Ghost" thing seems to be a recreation of the Jude Law character in "Enemy at the Gates," and pops up the second day.

 

The "shootdown" of two transports, one which is claimed to have been carrying dozens of paratroopers makes no military sense.

If you are going to do a para drop, and those troops are being carried in a slow moving "grape," which is the term used by tacair guys in the US to indicate something more than an easy target, you escort it with at least four fighters.

Two would stay with it to defend against fighter interventions, and two to accelerated ahead and clear the target area, a tactic called a Mig sweep.

 

Either the Russians are fighting the most stupid war in history, or this stuff is pretty suspicious.

 

Regarding this thread, the suggestion that drones could handle the Russian ground forces is preposterous, but when posted from a guy who seems to be watching his first war, not surprising. The "game day thread" approach lacks nothing but a "push 'em back. Push 'em back way back" cheerleader thing.

 

On a good note, I think this is the end of Putin.

This is so one sided in the international public opinion perspective, that he is done.

Hopefully, he doesn't do anything really stupid in the endgame.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, sherpa said:

I couldn't agree more.

I have been very suspicious of claims made because lack of evidence and the fact that what is claimed makes no military sense.

Either Putin/Russian are the stupidest strategists in history, or something else is up.

This "Ghost" thing seems to be a recreation of the Jude Law character in "Enemy at the Gates," and pops up the second day.

 

The "shootdown" of two transports, one which is claimed to have been carrying dozens of paratroopers makes no military sense.

If you are going to do a para drop, and those troops are being carried in a slow moving "grape," which is the term used by tacair guys in the US to indicate something more than an easy target, you escort it with at least four fighters.

Two would stay with it to defend against fighter interventions, and two to accelerated ahead and clear the target area, a tactic called a Mig sweep.

 

Either the Russians are fighting the most stupid war in history, or this stuff is pretty suspicious.

 

Regarding this thread, the suggestion that drones could handle the Russian ground forces is preposterous, but when posted from a guy who seems to be watching his first war, not surprising. The "game day thread" approach lacks nothing but a "push 'em back. Push 'em back way back" cheerleader thing.

 

On a good note, I think this is the end of Putin.

This is so one sided in the international public opinion perspective, that he is done.

Hopefully, he doesn't do anything really stupid in the endgame.

 

Well is the reporting, even if false, can do anything, it's sway public opinion and give hope to those fighting.  The more losses Russia appears to take and the more Ukrainians appear to fight back, the harder Ukrainians will fight, maybe Russians will fight less, and the more support they are getting worldwide.

[GETTOTHE50]

21 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

The big question is I think is why Russia didn't hit Ukraine with everything they had, all at once.  They still tried to end the war in 48 hours, but using only a fifth to a quarter of their available forces.

 

Why commit so little of your available combat power to THE critical operation of the war?  And if you only think you need 30-40,000 troops, why mobilize almost 200,000? A professional military should be smarter than this. It's like if Manny Pacquiao wanted to fight me, trained for a year to fight me,  but Manny Pacquiao decided to tie one hand behind his back and hop on one leg just because.

Maybe they put out 200k troops in case nato joined in?