Big Blitz Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 21 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: I thought there might be some discussion of this little thing going on in Russia here but its still the same Biden vs. Trump mud wrestling as every other thread. And one guy freaking out about masks and covid. Yep they're always "little things" when Democrats break them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKayAdams Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 9:16 AM, Tiberius said: I disagree. Putin wants Ukraine back. That's why he took Crimea. Russian history is, in part, a story expansion that way. Peter the Great, Catherine the Great all pushed off in that direction and Putin wants it back. UGH. Full apologies, Tibsy. You were right and I was wrong. I completely underestimated Putin’s capacity for economic brinkmanship. Is it safe to assume that Russia and China arranged a sweet trade partnership beforehand?? The latest I heard was that China was prevaricating on Ukraine. 30 minutes ago, John Adams said: We will see. The Blue and Red folk here are not currently encouraging but they are also not, thankfully, an accurate cross section through society. For people to think this war is a Red or Blue issue is another Putin victory. Yeah, the political tribalism at PPP is super annoying and is also missing the mark. Normally this is the moment where I would insert a lengthy rant against all facets of the bipartisan post-1989 American imperialism (with particular emphasis on NATO aggression, Yanukovych ousting, etc.), but the brutal reality here is that the Ukrainian invasion is 100% Putin’s fault and 0% anyone else’s. At least Nord Stream 2 is dead now. GOOD. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Yep they're always "little things" when Democrats break them. Irony, thy name is Big Blitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 The "democracy" we're being asked to fight for: The 9th most corrupt in the world....... Ukraine’s choice: corruption or growth Since it regained independence in 1991, Ukraine has exhibited systematic economic under-performance. The main driver behind this thirty-year record of disappointing growth is bad governance and, more specifically, corruption. During his May 2021 visit to Kyiv, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken repeatedly called corruption the main enemy of the Ukrainian economy. It is hard to argue with this assessment. Corruption erodes the effectiveness of all government institutions and the state itself. According to former Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili, who currently heads Ukraine’s National Reform Council, the Ukrainian state budget loses over USD 37 billion every year due to corruption. This figure is close to a quarter of Ukraine’s annual GDP of USD 153.8 billion in 2019. Many sectors of the Ukrainian economy are dominated by monopolies. The best solution here is to introduce effective competition. There are very few natural monopolies, meaning industries in which high startup and other infrastructure costs, significant economies of scale relative to the size of the market, and other unavoidable barriers to entry make for a single provider of a good or service in an industry or location. Opening up fully to competition from the EU is in many instances the best solution here, including for the energy sector. Where appropriate, unnatural monopolies can be broken up or unbundled by the regulator. Too many Ukrainian enterprises are state-owned. State ownership should be restricted to firms that produce pure public goods or services. https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraines-choice-corruption-or-growth/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 33 minutes ago, Process said: That’s absurd… darkly hilarious also 9 minutes ago, ComradeKayAdams said: UGH. Full apologies, Tibsy. You were right and I was wrong. I completely underestimated Putin’s capacity for economic brinkmanship. Is it safe to assume that Russia and China arranged a sweet trade partnership beforehand?? The latest I heard was that China was prevaricating on Ukraine. Yeah, the political tribalism at PPP is super annoying and is also missing the mark. Normally this is the moment where I would insert a lengthy rant against all facets of the bipartisan post-1989 American imperialism (with particular emphasis on NATO aggression, Yanukovych ousting, etc.), but the brutal reality here is that the Ukrainian invasion is 100% Putin’s fault and 0% anyone else’s. At least Nord Stream 2 is dead now. GOOD. Are you Okay? The lack of lengthy rant is out of character… 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: There are some key facts here. Taking the bias or slant out of this, there is a real fundamental list of questions here. Why did Crimea happen when it did and what did it have to do with us foreign policy at the time? Sevastopol is Russia's only warm water Naval port and when the Yanukovych government fell they acted to protect that interest. Some inside the Kremlin felt their "lease" on the base might be threatened. During the Soviet era the "ownership" of Crimea was "transferred" from Russia to Ukraine by then Soviet premier and Ukrainian Kruschev. So many inside the county and in Crimea itself disagreed with the transfer and felt the territory always belonged to Russia. Why did the past administration get labeled as Putin lapdog or asset, while at the same time the Ukraine Russia tension did not fundamentally change? The Russian collaboration narrative was invented by the Clinton campaign, CIA assets, and other elements inside and outside the government to hamper the functioning of the incoming administration and raise concerns about its legitimacy. Trump's unexpected victory threatened the deep state agenda. Russia saw no immediate threat from Trump regarding NATO expansion and their intelligence assessments determined his behavior was too "erratic and unpredictable" to understand how his administration might react to their actions. So they couldn't produce very reliable risk assessments. The fact Trump heavily sanctioned NordStream2 seemed to conflict with the idea he was some sort of Russian asset. Why, weeks after the new regime entered did Russia start building military presence on the Ukraine border and why are they now doing this? I assume you mean by "new regime" the incoming Biden administration. An expectation the new US administration would pick up where the story left off in 2016 which the strategy of encircling and isolating Russia. And recently with the transfer of large amounts of military hardware the threat was clear. And resumption of talk of NATO inclusion and cooperation. It would be only a matter of time before the break away provinces were brought under control with all the new weaponry. So they acted knowing there would be consequences which I expect the West would complain about but learn to live with. I think the invasion today is a serious miscalculation on Putin's end. The response will likely produce hardships for the country and its people. More than they anticipate. I expect they'll be expelled from SWIFT if not today then very soon. But suffering and hardship are nothing new to them and the prevailing thinking might be they can tough it out but they're betting the impacts of hardships and sacrifice on West will eventually be too much for them to accept. some more unsettling points: - Putin is calling Ukraine govt a puppet us government As I stated before it was installed by the US State Dept and the CIA so this may be an accurate assessment. - China is officially ok with what’s going on. China is closely aligned with Russia, and has its eye on Taiwan and seeks to weaken or eliminate US influence in Asia so they are siding with Russia which has similar objectives for Europe and the Middle East. That's the ultimate game here. Drive the empire back to the Western Hemisphere. Here's my best shot in bold. And pre-emptively, for anyone that might jump on my back to suggest I'm lining up with the enemy I'm not expressing my personal view of the situation. I am simply looking to provide my opinion and insights into what I believe and conclude is their thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 38 minutes ago, Process said: Amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 The reality is that US foreign policy has been largely dog**** for decades. There hasn't been an executive administration that has helped itself substantially in this regard since JFK. With regard to Russia, blunders all the way back to before the fall of the USSR. This ***** doesn't happen in a vacuum. Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Obama, Trump, Biden - it runs through all seven of these administrations one way or another. Russia could have been a great ally. It's far too late for that now. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: The "democracy" we're being asked to fight for: The 9th most corrupt in the world....... Ukraine’s choice: corruption or growth Since it regained independence in 1991, Ukraine has exhibited systematic economic under-performance. The main driver behind this thirty-year record of disappointing growth is bad governance and, more specifically, corruption. During his May 2021 visit to Kyiv, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken repeatedly called corruption the main enemy of the Ukrainian economy. It is hard to argue with this assessment. Corruption erodes the effectiveness of all government institutions and the state itself. According to former Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili, who currently heads Ukraine’s National Reform Council, the Ukrainian state budget loses over USD 37 billion every year due to corruption. This figure is close to a quarter of Ukraine’s annual GDP of USD 153.8 billion in 2019. Many sectors of the Ukrainian economy are dominated by monopolies. The best solution here is to introduce effective competition. There are very few natural monopolies, meaning industries in which high startup and other infrastructure costs, significant economies of scale relative to the size of the market, and other unavoidable barriers to entry make for a single provider of a good or service in an industry or location. Opening up fully to competition from the EU is in many instances the best solution here, including for the energy sector. Where appropriate, unnatural monopolies can be broken up or unbundled by the regulator. Too many Ukrainian enterprises are state-owned. State ownership should be restricted to firms that produce pure public goods or services. https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraines-choice-corruption-or-growth/ we all know it’s corrupt. All that Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, Trump impeachment quid pro quo phone call investigation corruption was about Ukrainian corruption… But Putins corruption is of a completely higher magnitude. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Why Poland? Putin has been pretty open about re establishment of the USSR. Poland, at least part, was part of Soviet Union. They are strategic location and NATO supported. Ukraine is easy, no NATO, Georgia may be next, Gorbachev old home, then Poland. Putin has constant interaction with Poland, and like Hitler used, they are Russian people we must save. But like I said, where is the line, likely not much time. China and Taiwan will come forward soon, then Putin is embolden. A strategy will be hard. I really think trump hurt relationships, Obama's people were way to naive. Who is the next Nixon, or Reagan? Certainly the dems have no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: Poland, at least part, was part of Soviet Union. They are strategic location and NATO supported. Ukraine is easy, no NATO, Georgia may be next, Gorbachev old home, then Poland. Putin has constant interaction with Poland, and like Hitler used, they are Russian people we must save. I think you greatly overstate Putin's capability. I don't think there's a chance he invades a NATO country like Poland. The line will be drawn, and it would be Russian suicide to redo the Hitler thing. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 Perhaps some good news, if it is true and not just propaganda. Russia tanks and helicopters destroyed with pics https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10547573/Ukraine-strikes-Kievs-troops-shoot-five-helicopters-Putins-forces-losses.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 22 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: Poland, at least part, was part of Soviet Union. They are strategic location and NATO supported. Ukraine is easy, no NATO, Georgia may be next, Gorbachev old home, then Poland. Putin has constant interaction with Poland, and like Hitler used, they are Russian people we must save. But like I said, where is the line, likely not much time. China and Taiwan will come forward soon, then Putin is embolden. A strategy will be hard. I really think trump hurt relationships, Obama's people were way to naive. Who is the next Nixon, or Reagan? Certainly the dems have no one. Poles are not Russian people. Never were. 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 55 minutes ago, Westside said: You sound a lot like the KGB. Turning on citizens who disagree with you. Am I the one praising Putin? That didn't bother you at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, B-Man said: Well, that's not good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 If this is real, it's wild. Sitting there taking very careful aim and BOOM! KIll 'em all!! Oh boy! Too good to be true??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demongyz Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, Tiberius said: If this is real, it's wild. Sitting there taking very careful aim and BOOM! KIll 'em all!! Oh boy! Too good to be true??? Great vids Tibs thanks for the post. Turn those tanks into the highway of death part 2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 I have no idea where that video came from, but from a guy who has dropped a lot of ordnance, it looks like friendly foces would have been morted by the hit. You generally don't blow up a vehicle at the same time your forces surround it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/02/08/ukraines-got-20-tb-2-drones-it-might-not-matter-in-a-wider-war-with-russia/?sh=4176fb3c353f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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