No huddle offense: considerations

[loyal2dagame]

If we catch New England in a personnel  mismatch,  the Bills should immediately go no huddle from that play on until they stop us. 

[Italian Bills]

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

I have to disagree a bit to the people saying you need a good running back. I don't think you do, especially if you're a pass happy team. Part of running the no huddle is to keep the defense from making substitutions. It keeps the defense on their toes and theoretically wears them down. I'm all for the bills running the no huddle in their current state. I think part of the reason they don't run it is because it doesn't give Allen a chance to read the defense. I think daboll would rather Allen comes to the line and reads the defense, rather than going up tempo and risking mistakes/turnovers. I'm all for the no huddle though 

Great to see many of you loved the no huddle O and that think it could work for us. Let’s scary defenses with this super aggressive scheme letting them know that we always play for their throat! 

[Old Coot]

Bills might need to change their system in which Josh makes the Oline calls to go no huddle.  In the Kelly no-huddle Kent Hull the center made the Oline calls.  

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

To me, Breida can catch the ball. 

to you!

 

ok

[Beerball]

12 hours ago, stosh64 said:

I know I would love to see Allen call his own plays.

I have three words for you: hero ball

 

You do not want Allen calling plays out there.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

16 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

I began watching football in late 80ies, i remember when the Bills were feared for the no huddle offense. I’m wondering if this could be a way to give us a more dangerous offense.
 

Personally i would love to use it very much more, to speed up the rhythm could affect defenses sets and, avoid the pressure on Allen and give us a different option on offense. What you think ? And again, we have the right men to use the no huddle offense ? 

Thanks for picking up this banner OP, I too grew up on a heavy dose of No Huddle Bills that tore a new one through the AFC for many years. You have to have the right QB for it, and Josh can definitely do it. A great way to get into scoring drive rhythm—but the downsides include stretching your D times on the field and that’s especially true on 3 and outs. However, overall I feel like there would be more pluses than minuses. 

[loyal2dagame]

2 hours ago, Beerball said:

I have three words for you: hero ball

 

You do not want Allen calling plays out there.

He calls the audibles.  What's the difference? He can either read defenses or he can't

[LABILLBACKER]

15 hours ago, Utah John said:

If you watch the glory years Bills games, you'll see that for the no-huddle to work you need a RB like Thurman Thomas running behind a strong O line, plus an excellent QB and receivers.  We have the latter two components but not the former two.  Also I think the way plays are called is really different.  Daboll is cooking up route combinations and blocking schemes as the game is underway, and giving that info to Allen.  Kelly often called his own plays, which he could do well at that time but it's a lot more complicated now.

 

So, no.  I don't think it's a good idea.

Exactly,  we have the superstar qb and great wrs. Just zero threat from our OL and RB's. Running a no huddle more would help but we're nowhere equipped to do it.

[Since1981]

Main advantage of K gun was a limited offensive formation (ala Thurman) then forces D to stay in compromised formation and tire out. I’m not convinced today’s game could have an offense do this reliably to win. Our team form could not. 
 

btw, I’ve always felt it was why we lost the super bowls. Kelly was smart but the other top tier coaches smarter. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, Since1981 said:

Main advantage of K gun was a limited offensive formation (ala Thurman) then forces D to stay in compromised formation and tire out. I’m not convinced today’s game could have an offense do this reliably to win. Our team form could not. 
 

btw, I’ve always felt it was why we lost the super bowls. Kelly was smart but the other top tier coaches smarter. 

But it must be added that logically must mean Kelly still outsmarted all top tier coaches outside of the immediate SB opponents? But then, the Bills also defeated each and every SB opponent coach in the regular season either the year of or basically right after the same SB appearances—so just sayin, it’s complicated. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

I began watching football in late 80ies, i remember when the Bills were feared for the no huddle offense. I’m wondering if this could be a way to give us a more dangerous offense.
 

Personally i would love to use it very much more, to speed up the rhythm could affect defenses sets and, avoid the pressure on Allen and give us a different option on offense. What you think ? And again, we have the right men to use the no huddle offense ? 

 

The Bills run no-huddle at times.  About 12% of our snaps

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2021_splits.htm#snap_type_splits

 

This is about 2x as much as we ran no-huddle last season, but we ran it about 10% of the time in 2019.

 

It has plusses and minuses. 

 

A big drawback, which the players talked about in some interviews back in 2019, is that our playbook is fairly extensive and involves a lot of route and protection options.   To communicate in the no-huddle, those have to be summarized for each play in one or two words, along with a code for an audible play.  No big deal, just make the team memorize that list of words, right?  Well, except that if the defense can hear them, they have to be changed each week, which adds another layer of stress and work onto the players.  Otherwise the Defense hears "Dalmation!" and knows what play the Bills ran the last time that was the play call.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Since1981 said:

Main advantage of K gun was a limited offensive formation (ala Thurman) then forces D to stay in compromised formation and tire out. I’m not convinced today’s game could have an offense do this reliably to win. Our team form could not. 
 

btw, I’ve always felt it was why we lost the super bowls. Kelly was smart but the other top tier coaches smarter. 

 

We actually run the same formation a lot.  Last year was 71% in (1,1) set with 1 RB and 1 TE, Diggs Davis and Beasley as the WR.  This year that's down a bit, but it's still more than half our plays.

 

I think our playbook is a lot more complicated than the KGun playbook was, though.

[sven233]

So, here's the thing about the no huddle.......  I think the game has changed so much through the years that it wouldn't be quite as effective as it was a couple decades ago.  Defenses are in better shape and are much faster overall.  They are also prepared much more now as to how to handle it because of so many situational practices and study.  Also, coaches have figured out strategies on how to slow it down when it does begin to be effective.  They'll purposely have guys fake injuries and other types of in game gamesmanship to slow it down.  Coaches are also a lot more organized and better at getting substitutions in quicker than they used to be.  So, the days of running it as a full time system I think are gone.

 

Now, that is not to say I wouldn't run it more than what we do.  There have been several times this season alone where I thought this team could benefit from a change of pace to try and get in a rhythm.  We've done it a couple times, but I think we could use it more than we do, especially if things aren't going well on offense.  I think with a QB like Allen, it would be very effective in stretches if you let Josh be Josh.  What I mean is that you have to be OK with letting Josh run the ball.  The advantage of a no huddle in theory is that you keep the same defensive personnel on the field and limit they types of defensive looks they can show you.  So, in our case, I think you could get a big advantage at times by letting Josh make his own decisions.  Not necessarily call his own plays, but be able to call his own number on any play.  Get guys out in a pattern and if his first or second read isn't there and he sees a lane, encourage him to take off.  He's big, strong and fast.  Him throwing the ball around and taking off quickly if he doesn't see what he wants down the field could keep the defense off balance and wear on them over time and could turn into big chunks if the no huddle is used at the right times and in the right way. 

 

So, while I wouldn't want to use it as a base offense, there are definitely times I would go to it to keep teams off balance.

Edited December 6, 2021 by sven233

[Beerball]

15 hours ago, loyal2dagame said:

He calls the audibles.  

He does so poorly.

[LABILLBACKER]

11 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

But it must be added that logically must mean Kelly still outsmarted all top tier coaches outside of the immediate SB opponents? But then, the Bills also defeated each and every SB opponent coach in the regular season either the year of or basically right after the same SB appearances—so just sayin, it’s complicated. 

We had the misfortune and bad luck of facing 3 amazing offensive lines during the SB run. They were able to dominate our D and manipulate the TOP.  We should've toned down the K gun a little so we could wear out their defenses a little. We don't have the OL to run it, nor do I see us using it more than occassionally down the road.