All-22 Grades for Bills/Saints (The Athletic)

[gordong]

its has to be covid related because Dawkins played really well last year. he didn't just forgot how to play

[FilthyBeast]

2 minutes ago, gordong said:

its has to be covid related because Dawkins played really well last year. he didn't just forgot how to play

 

I hope that's the case and agree he's been one of the better players for the bills, albeit not an elite NFL tackle.

 

This is why there has to be serious concern regarding the how effective Star and Spencer Brown will be the rest of the year assuming they are healthy enough to play in the first place.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, vincec said:

I guess, or maybe it just shows the futility of this kind of micro-analysis without knowing anyone's assignments or even the play design beyond the most basic level.

 

It's not quite that hopeless.

The protections have different names, but there are a lot of similarities in what they are from team to team.

 

There are some guys who do play-by-play breakdowns who dig deep into the protections and how the blocking assignments vary with what the defense shows.

Some of them are helped by having played OL (Fina, Wood) or RB (Erik Turner, our @Buffalo716) at some level, so they have an idea about the assignments.

 

Going back to early Nov after the Bills lost to the Jags, Erik Turner of Cover 1 has been doing a lot of deep-diving into the run game.

Start here where he actually puts up a diagram of one protection and how the rules for who to block vary with defensive fronts

 

 

Keep in mind this is one protection, and then if the defense is showing something that isn't part of this adjustments must be made.

 

Anyway, I don't always agree with him and he's obviously influenced by fan-dom at times one way or the other (too positive or too negative), as all of us are.

 

But he's been doing a LOT of focus on run blocking and run defense in his twitter feed, and if any of you have an  interest in this kind of thing, I would definitely recommend going back to the tweet above and then working through his feed.

 

For example:

 

You don't need a twitter account to do this, although sometimes if you want to click to embiggen you need to "open in a private window" (Twitter has been pushing hard to get casual viewers without accounts, like myself, to sign up)

 

I would especially like to recommend their "Film Room" session with Eric Wood after the Colts game

 

And their short piece on Breida:

 

 

[BuffaloRebound]

37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Are we still talking about the same game?

How did Dawkins "blow up" the first drive, which ended in a TD after 7 successful run plays and had no penalties?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202111250nor.htm

 

 

I don't how about "The Ford Report" but @Freddie's Dead openly acknowledges he's got no knowledge of the assignment and is going play-by-play what he sees.  Neither he nor Joe B have played organized football.

 

The thing is at least our Freddie goes through play by play and tells you what he's seeing and how he's grading, which is more than I can say for Joe B.

Drive 2, Drive 4, Drive 5. That’s 2 out of 4.  3 out of 5.  Not rocket science here.  

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Dawkins personally blew up 2 of our first 3 drives.  Bad left tackle play is tough to overcome.  

 

We've been hearing for weeks that the problems are on the Right side of that line...

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Our first 3 drives resulted in 2 scores.  So perhaps that was not the problem?

 

The 4th and 5th drives perhaps you'd have more point.  Dawkins had a bad holding penalty on the 4th drive (although the Bills overcame and converted), and let 94 get to Allen and hit his arm on the 5th drive leading to an INT

I read an interesting breakdown of sacks and pressure surrendered by Dawkins in 2020 vs. 2021 on Twitter the week before the NO game.

 

Surprisingly the numbers were pretty close.  The difference IMO is that he’s had more noticeable lows in 2020 than 2021.  This of course, was before the Thanksgiving game which was one of his worst.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Drive 2, Drive 4, Drive 5. That’s 2 out of 4.  3 out of 5.  Not rocket science here.  

 

How did Dawkins blow up Drive 2? 

 

Drive 4 is arguable, he did have the holding penalty but we did convert and gain another 11 yards (and the INT was not on him).  I can see the point that in general, holding penalties sink drives but I don't think it sunk that particular one, myself.

 

Drive 5, absolutely.

 

9 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I read an interesting breakdown of sacks and pressure surrendered by Dawkins in 2020 vs. 2021 on Twitter the week before the NO game.

 

Surprisingly the numbers were pretty close.  The difference IMO is that he’s had more noticeable lows in 2020 than 2021.  This of course, was before the Thanksgiving game which was one of his worst.  

 

How about providing a link to this interesting breakdown, or at least the name of a Twitter account, so that we can all benefit?

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How did Dawkins blow up Drive 2? 

 

Drive 4 is arguable, he did have the holding penalty but we did convert and gain another 11 yards (and the INT was not on him).  I can see the point that in general, holding penalties sink drives but I don't think it sunk that particular one, myself.

 

Drive 5, absolutely.

 

 

How about providing a link to this interesting breakdown, or at least the name of a Twitter account, so that we can all benefit?

Only for your Dr. Hap.  The stat I was referring to was pressure rate:

 

 

[Freddie's Dead]

3 hours ago, vincec said:

I see good grades from "The Ford Report" (with posters calling people who doubt Ford like Joe B biased) and bad grades from The Athletic. Did they watch different games? 😂

 

I don't understand Joe B's negative grades at all.  Ford had a decent game against the Saints.  Williams was a disaster, yet somehow escapes criticism.  I don't have access to The Athletic, so does Joe B mention specific plays, or is it just a general impression?

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

https://theathletic.com/2992484/2021/12/02/how-the-bills-overcame-offensive-line-troubles-to-get-back-on-track-all-22-film-review?source=user-shared-article

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top 5 grades:

1) Allen (A-)

2) Diggs (A-)

3) Davis (A-)

4) Edmunds (A-)

5) Milano (A-)

 

Bottom 5 grades (worst to 5th worst):

1) Boettger (C-)

2) Dawkins (C-)

3) Ford (C)

4) Jackson (C+)

5) Bryant (C+)

 

I also want to mention that Williams was the 6th worst graded player with a C+. The offemsive line is still a huge problem, Allen just covers it up.

 

The offensive line is going to be a problem all year.  People don't understand how good Allen is.  There aren't too many QBs that can mask this line as well as he has.  The only thing I don't know is if we just have some of the worst players in the league at like all the positions on the line or coaching is just that terrible.

 

Quote

1. Quick fix helped mitigated poor line play

 

Against the Colts, Allen held on to the ball for an average of 2.91 seconds — his second-highest single-game mark in 2021. With only three days to prepare and the same offensive line facing a highly talented Saints defensive line, the Bills made a clear choice in the name of offensive efficiency.

 

Once again, the offensive line struggled to keep the pocket clean. Four of their five offensive linemen carried a below-average grade, and three lowest-graded Bills players from the Saints film were right guard Cody Ford, left tackle Dion Dawkins and left guard Ike Boettger. Keeping the sanctity of the pocket was a problem that carried over, but the Bills smartly adjusted to prevent it from becoming a humongous issue for the second game in a row.

 

To counter the offensive line struggles, they had Allen get the ball out of his hand quickly all game. On average, Allen took 2.43 seconds to throw. It was his second-lowest single-game mark of the season, behind only the team’s Week 8 victory over Miami, in which Allen averaged 2.22 seconds. Against the Saints, Allen set a season-high mark by completing 82.1 percent of his passes and didn’t allow the Saints’ pressure to derail his day.

 

This part right here is why I don't think Allen "holds the ball too long."  I think its more Daboll's game plan than Allen.

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

https://theathletic.com/2992484/2021/12/02/how-the-bills-overcame-offensive-line-troubles-to-get-back-on-track-all-22-film-review?source=user-shared-article

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top 5 grades:

1) Allen (A-)

2) Diggs (A-)

3) Davis (A-)

4) Edmunds (A-)

5) Milano (A-)

 

Bottom 5 grades (worst to 5th worst):

1) Boettger (C-)

2) Dawkins (C-)

3) Ford (C)

4) Jackson (C+)

5) Bryant (C+)

 

I also want to mention that Williams was the 6th worst graded player with a C+. The offemsive line is still a huge problem, Allen just covers it up.

He's been covering it up for 2-3 years now. No doubt we're going to see a substantial overhaul of our OL/RB's this offseason. Long overdue. 

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not quite that hopeless.

The protections have different names, but there are a lot of similarities in what they are from team to team.

 

There are some guys who do play-by-play breakdowns who dig deep into the protections and how the blocking assignments vary with what the defense shows.

Some of them are helped by having played OL (Fina, Wood) or RB (Erik Turner, our @Buffalo716) at some level, so they have an idea about the assignments.

 

Going back to early Nov after the Bills lost to the Jags, Erik Turner of Cover 1 has been doing a lot of deep-diving into the run game.

Start here where he actually puts up a diagram of one protection and how the rules for who to block vary with defensive fronts

 

 

Keep in mind this is one protection, and then if the defense is showing something that isn't part of this adjustments must be made.

 

Anyway, I don't always agree with him and he's obviously influenced by fan-dom at times one way or the other (too positive or too negative), as all of us are.

 

But he's been doing a LOT of focus on run blocking and run defense in his twitter feed, and if any of you have an  interest in this kind of thing, I would definitely recommend going back to the tweet above and then working through his feed.

 

For example:

 

You don't need a twitter account to do this, although sometimes if you want to click to embiggen you need to "open in a private window" (Twitter has been pushing hard to get casual viewers without accounts, like myself, to sign up)

 

I would especially like to recommend their "Film Room" session with Eric Wood after the Colts game

 

And their short piece on Breida:

 

 

Yea offensive lineman has so much going on..  they really need to be super smart .. it's a thinking position

 

Contrast that with RB , where the playbook is vastly smaller and your roles are also limited ... The vast majority is just remembering formations and roles in the play 

 

Running back is basically all instincts.. get ball, see hole, hit hole hard.. make guy miss etc lol 

 

Offensive lines have numbers games to play , protections on the fly, post snap different than pre snap... Lots of variables for the big uglies upfront 

 

#1 wish list draft day... Top interior lineman available

[RoyBatty is alive]

5 hours ago, H2o said:

This year, much more so than last seemingly, rides on JA's shoulders. Especially with Tre White going down for the rest of the year, the Bills will go as far as JA's arm takes them. Go Bills, beat the Pats!!!

Yep.  His C + should be the most worrying for Bills Fans on Monday.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

4 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Drive 2, Drive 4, Drive 5. That’s 2 out of 4.  3 out of 5.  Not rocket science here.  

i am not sure which drive it was— but the reason we settled for that FG was solely because of Dawkins. I think that was the one when he thought the end was going into the flat, and just let him go unabated to Josh. It was as bad and dumb of a mental error that I have ever seen a LT make. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yea offensive lineman has so much going on..  they really need to be super smart .. it's a thinking position

 

Contrast that with RB , where the playbook is vastly smaller and your roles are also limited ... The vast majority is just remembering formations and roles in the play 

 

Running back is basically all instincts.. get ball, see hole, hit hole hard.. make guy miss etc lol 

 

Offensive lines have numbers games to play , protections on the fly, post snap different than pre snap... Lots of variables for the big uglies upfront 

 

#1 wish list draft day... Top interior lineman available

 

100% agree on the wish list....and add in a flyer on an IOL who falls for some reason if we like one

 

For the run game, I'm sure you're right but with the Bills, playing a lot of (1,1) and counting on the RB in pass protection...it seems to me that the RB's playbook must be about as complicated as the OL's playbook in that aspect of the game, as they have to understand all the variations of who they're supposed to block in each protection too?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

https://theathletic.com/2992484/2021/12/02/how-the-bills-overcame-offensive-line-troubles-to-get-back-on-track-all-22-film-review?source=user-shared-article

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top 5 grades:

1) Allen (A-)

2) Diggs (A-)

3) Davis (A-)

4) Edmunds (A-)

5) Milano (A-)

 

Bottom 5 grades (worst to 5th worst):

1) Boettger (C-)

2) Dawkins (C-)

3) Ford (C)

4) Jackson (C+)

5) Bryant (C+)

 

I also want to mention that Williams was the 6th worst graded player with a C+. The offemsive line is still a huge problem, Allen just covers it up.

I feel bad for josh this year…he should be allowed to not buy the oline Christmas presents this year…dude is balling and we’re talking about how his huge contract may be a mistake regardless 😂 silver lining he’s almost forced to improve bumping some of the intermediate routes up in his progressions to avoid certain death lol he did a nice job with that against the saints outside of that one pick where he got the ball out late 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

100% agree on the wish list....and add in a flyer on an IOL who falls for some reason if we like one

 

For the run game, I'm sure you're right but with the Bills, playing a lot of (1,1) and counting on the RB in pass protection...it seems to me that the RB's playbook must be about as complicated as the OL's playbook in that aspect of the game, as they have to understand all the variations of who they're supposed to block in each protection too?

Yea basically the part I didn't talk about was blocking assignments 

 

Which is complicated for a running back.. and the hardest part about the position 

 

Basically all your roles when you're not getting the ball... But it's still a lot less complicated than all the stuff Offensive line has to know 

 

Once you get to the big time.. if you can't block to a solid degree, you're not getting on the field Much.. unless you can run like shady McCoy in his prime

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Yep.  His C + should be the most worrying for Bills Fans on Monday.

Several of those terrible offensive linemen will not be playing Monday which should help lots of peoples grades on the offense

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

The offensive line is going to be a problem all year.  People don't understand how good Allen is.  There aren't too many QBs that can mask this line as well as he has.  The only thing I don't know is if we just have some of the worst players in the league at like all the positions on the line or coaching is just that terrible.

 

 

This part right here is why I don't think Allen "holds the ball too long."  I think its more Daboll's game plan than Allen.

 

Eh.  "Never as good as it seems, never as bad as it seems" probably applies here.

 

The OL has its jailbreaks and breakdowns in pass protection, but overall their main problems are in run blocking, where they struggle to hold their blocks and move bodies enough to help the RB's vision.

 

Yes, absolutely Allen's pocket sense and ability to evade pressure help the OL look better than it is.  But, the plays that appear designed to be read deep-to-shallow as well as secondary route concepts/scramble drills also demand a lot more of the Bills OL than other teams are demanding of their OLs.

 

I can't tell you whether that's on how reads are set up/play design or on Allen.  I expect it's some of both.

 

And yes, I expect that if we had better coaching, we'd have a better line.

 

19 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yea basically the part I didn't talk about was blocking assignments 

Which is complicated for a running back.. and the hardest part about the position 

Basically all your roles when you're not getting the ball... But it's still a lot less complicated than all the stuff Offensive line has to know 

Once you get to the big time.. if you can't block to a solid degree, you're not getting on the field Much.. unless you can run like shady McCoy in his prime

 

Just my guess, but it's that last I believe has been keeping Breida off the field. 

 

But frankly, that may just be something Daboll has to work around.  Speed guys are hard to come by, and by their nature I think tend to be not as physically sturdy or high-mass (since blockers do get into that F=m*a thing).   If he's struggling with it, get him up to speed on 1 or 2 protections and give him extra coaching so that he isn't a total tell for a run, then otherwise play his ass for what he gives to the run and the quick pass game to the edges.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

The offensive line is going to be a problem all year.  People don't understand how good Allen is.  There aren't too many QBs that can mask this line as well as he has.  The only thing I don't know is if we just have some of the worst players in the league at like all the positions on the line or coaching is just that terrible.

 

 

This part right here is why I don't think Allen "holds the ball too long."  I think its more Daboll's game plan than Allen.

I have the unfortunate displeasure of getting giants games locally and I think their oline may even be better than ours but it’s pretty eye opening watching an average qb try to deal with that kind of instant pressure all game long. They can’t do much of anything on offense