Mac Jones is this years Baker Mayfield. He came into the NFL at his ceiling?

[Thurman#1]

On 12/2/2021 at 12:15 PM, Paul Costa said:

Baker Mayfield or Mac Jones who had a better rookie season. Obviously Mac Jones has not completed his rookie season yet. But many in the media have already crowned him a franchise QB. My point is he reminds me of Baker Mayfield in his rookie year. Playing to his ceiling 

 

 

 I don't think the media has "already crowned him a franchise QB." Not at all.

 

More that they're comparing him to Brady in his first few years, when he needed to be schemed around and have the system help him.

 

The comparisons are more to Brady before he became a franchise QB.

 

IMO they're more talking about how well the Pats are playing as a team, how well they are putting Jones in places where he can be helped while still limiting what they expect him to do, and how his limitations are not yet holding him back much.

 

And I certainly disagree that he came in at his ceiling. He's been improving every week. They're expanding what they game plan for him as he gets better and learns. 

 

Is his ceiling lower than guys like Allen? Absolutely. But is he at his ceiling? No. Nor was Mayfield at his ceiling his first year. His INT percentage, for one thing, has consistently dropped. He's gotten better. Thank goodness the team is having some kind of drama every week. I haven't figured it out, maybe Mayfield is one of the main causes, but I'm not convinced of that yet.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Thurman#1

[RaoulDuke79]

Lol.....I for one am shocked @Jrb1979 has negative reactions to any posts that aren't complimentary to Macaroni Jones.

[Thurman#1]

On 12/2/2021 at 10:58 AM, Breakout Squad said:

I think you could see Brady’s greatness early in his career. I haven’t seen much of Jones but no matter how well he does, what are the chances he’s the next Tom Brady. How long can BB coach for? I think the more film seen by opponents will limit him. I think we’ve seen that to a certain extent with Allen and the deep cover 2

 

 

I don't think so. You could see he was a good system QB, a good game manager. You couldn't see greatness for four or five years.

[MacAttack]

Mac is the best QB from his class maybe besides Lawrence. I've said this way before construction workers pretending to be fake draft people. I pray Josh doesnt ruin him and gets a head coach job somewhere. 

 

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Edited December 5, 2021 by MacAttack

[Paul Costa]

Baker was the best QB in his draft class after his rookie season  . He is currently a distant 3rd. That is entirely my point. Mac Jones is what he is. A solid game manager that can be solid with some good coaching and some play makers . Nothing more. 

[bigduke6]

Brownies main problems this year have been injuries,  pure and simple.   Baker has been hurt the majority of the season and theyre trying to mask it by playing differently.    Chubb and Hunt have both been out limiting their run game which was what opened up the pass for them.   

 

Mac has a great situation he fell into.   a great defense to limit what he has to do,  a running game to allow him to do less.   as of this moment,  Mac is a game manager,  hes not actually winning the games for them.

does that mean he will or wont be more than that in the future,  we shall see.

 

the next man up thing in the NFL makes its sound like the next guy can fill the injured players shoes fully and allow the team to not miss a step.  thats rarely the case.   there are guys on every team that u take them away,  the team has to change the way they play significantly, and most of the time its a problem and doesnt work.   im worried about Tre going down.

 

when Mac starts being the reason the Pats are winning,  ill start to worry.

Edited December 6, 2021 by bigduke6

[PatsFanNH]

11 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:

Brownies main problems this year have been injuries,  pure and simple.   Baker has been hurt the majority of the season and theyre trying to mask it by playing differently.    Chubb and Hunt have both been out limiting their run game which was what opened up the pass for them.   

 

Mac has a great situation he fell into.   a great defense to limit what he has to do,  a running game to allow him to do less.   as of this moment,  Mac is a game manager,  hes not actually winning the games for them.

does that mean he will or wont be more than that in the future,  we shall see.

 

the next man up thing in the NFL makes its sound like the next guy can fill the injured players shoes fully and allow the team to not miss a step.  thats rarely the case.   there are guys on every team that u take them away,  the team has to change the way they play significantly, and most of the time its a problem and doesnt work.   im worried about Tre going down.

 

when Mac starts being the reason the Pats are winning,  ill start to worry.

Excellent take. Right now Jones is the best anyone who is a Pats fan could hope for right now. What he is in 3-4 years only time will tell. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Paul Costa said:

Baker was the best QB in his draft class after his rookie season  . He is currently a distant 3rd. That is entirely my point. Mac Jones is what he is. A solid game manager that can be solid with some good coaching and some play makers . Nothing more. 

 

That is what Jones is now.  But what he will become, is an open question.

 

Mayfield, by all reports, acted as though he’d arrived.  The Browns let him choose his HC and OC.  He supposedly wasn’t putting in the work in the film room or in the offseason.  

 

That’s not going to happen in Foxboro, but whether and how much Jones will improve, can’t tell you

[Dr.Sack]

Mac Jones will be successful as long as the Pats D is solid and because he can execute the NE offense. Mayfield could be doing the same if he were so fortunate. Allen would be the most hated QB in Buffalo if he had landed in NE. 

[Paul Costa]

Agree with you DR. Sack. Jones is a biproduct of great D & great coaching. He’s not going to win a game for you. Nor will he lose one. He’s meh 😑 

[Richard Noggin]

10 minutes ago, Paul Costa said:

Agree with you DR. Sack. Jones is a biproduct of great D & great coaching. He’s not going to win a game for you. Nor will he lose one. He’s meh 😑 

You're probably selling him short here.

 

His physical traits seem meh when compared to other freaks at the position. But he makes solid, fast decisions and delivers an accurate ball. If it was easy to do this, more NFL QBs would. I will concede that his coaches and o-line put him in excellent situations.

[Success]

It's been said a few times (I think by me) - the O-line he has is about 90% responsible for the hype.

 

If he was playing behind a middle-of-the-road line, his lack of mobility and arm strength would be much more glaring flaws.  

 

And I haven't checked the rankings, but NE's red zone stats are pretty woeful.  That's one of the things that really separates the game managers from the stars.  He's a rookie, so of course he gets some slack there - but the hype is overblown for what he's doing.

 

[Paul Costa]

Great point about New England’s Oline. There playing lights out over the last 6 games. Bills D Line gotta be disruptive if we can keep this game close 🤭

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That is what Jones is now.  But what he will become, is an open question.

 

Mayfield, by all reports, acted as though he’d arrived.  The Browns let him choose his HC and OC.  He supposedly wasn’t putting in the work in the film room or in the offseason.  

 

That’s not going to happen in Foxboro, but whether and how much Jones will improve, can’t tell you

Also let’s not forget Mayfield went to a team that hadn’t been even mediocre for a long time! They went 0-16 to get him I believe. So he walks in and wins 7 games he is seen as the savior.

 

Meanwhile Jones goes to NE where they were just mediocre for one year, and if we are honest he is filling perhaps the biggest shoes of any rookie QB with the Brady fresh in everyone’s mind. Slacking off here and demands here won’t work, there is only one sheriff in this town and he wears the hoodie.

 

like you said I don’t have a clue how good Jones will be but reports are he is a film room junkie and is always wanting to learn more. I hope he ends up being great, but no one truly knows and Baker and him are vastly different QBs and NO ONE thought Baker was close to his ceiling. I never understood how draft “experts” know how close any kid who is 22 or 23 is to their ceiling? 

[PatsFanNH]

46 minutes ago, Success said:

It's been said a few times (I think by me) - the O-line he has is about 90% responsible for the hype.

 

If he was playing behind a middle-of-the-road line, his lack of mobility and arm strength would be much more glaring flaws.  

 

And I haven't checked the rankings, but NE's red zone stats are pretty woeful.  That's one of the things that really separates the game managers from the stars.  He's a rookie, so of course he gets some slack there - but the hype is overblown for what he's doing.

 

You clearly missed the TB and Dallas game where he was hit like a rented mule but still put up damn good numbers for a rookie. Oh and he also gave the Pats the lead against Dallas with less than a minute to go. 
 

red zone word how you determine Star QBs. So the facts that play calling for 4 straight runs or lack of a WR get open is on the QB? Oh wait if he could run that make the difference.. Ugh 

 

The truth is they call Plays to LIKIT the chance of a TO so they at least walk away with 3, why? Because with their D they are more than likely going be fine especially if the offense scores on almost every possession (they are averaging less than 3 punts a game and less than 2 in this winning streak). 
 

Jones isn’t overhyped up here our talking heads saying crap just get people listen.. the truth is he is doing amazing for a rookie and better than a lot of the vets out there.

 

[Success]

33 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

You clearly missed the TB and Dallas game where he was hit like a rented mule but still put up damn good numbers for a rookie. Oh and he also gave the Pats the lead against Dallas with less than a minute to go. 
 

red zone word how you determine Star QBs. So the facts that play calling for 4 straight runs or lack of a WR get open is on the QB? Oh wait if he could run that make the difference.. Ugh 

 

The truth is they call Plays to LIKIT the chance of a TO so they at least walk away with 3, why? Because with their D they are more than likely going be fine especially if the offense scores on almost every possession (they are averaging less than 3 punts a game and less than 2 in this winning streak). 
 

Jones isn’t overhyped up here our talking heads saying crap just get people listen.. the truth is he is doing amazing for a rookie and better than a lot of the vets out there.

 

 

I get your excitement for him, completely. But what you're doing above is kind of what we did for years.  Taking bits & pieces and trying to draw larger conclusions from them.

 

Danny Jones had several games his rookie year that were along the lines of Mac's Dallas game.  Many rookies have.  Mayfield looked so much better his 1st year.  

 

Mac is definitely overhyped nationally, and by Patriots fans in general.  Not all, and you've been realistic - but I have heard very few Pats fans online and elsewhere who have taken that kind of approach.  The conventional wisdom among both the fanbase and their most prominent pundits is that Mac is Young to Brady's Montana, that he is already the best QB from that class, and that he'll continue to progress in a linear fashion and eventually win a bunch of Lombardi's.

 

True story.  

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

Meanwhile Jones goes to NE where they were just mediocre for one year, and if we are honest he is filling perhaps the biggest shoes of any rookie QB with the Brady fresh in everyone’s mind. Slacking off here and demands here won’t work, there is only one sheriff in this town and he wears the hoodie.

 

Exactly

 

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

like you said I don’t have a clue how good Jones will be but reports are he is a film room junkie and is always wanting to learn more. I hope he ends up being great, but no one truly knows and Baker and him are vastly different QBs and NO ONE thought Baker was close to his ceiling. I never understood how draft “experts” know how close any kid who is 22 or 23 is to their ceiling? 

 

On the one hand, as you note Mac went to a situation with a strong winning culture and a strong team around him, so kind of optimal situation for a rookie.

 

On the other hand, I'm puzzled at how Bills fans, who suffered (and still sometimes suffer) from people looking at our QB and pronouncing "accuracy can't be improved" "he'll always be like that" - are so certain about the limits to another QB's development.  Joe Namath and Tom Brady didn't come into the league as physical specimens.  I'm not saying Mac Jones is likely to develop into a QB like either one of them, it's just that I don't understand the certainty "he's near his ceiling" blah blah.

 

I just want to see his floor Monday night 😇  and in 2 weeks

 

And on the other hand, some of the stuff in the media about Mac Jones is just over-the-top, so that's kind of off-putting

On 12/4/2021 at 9:10 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 I don't think the media has "already crowned him a franchise QB." Not at all.

 

We haven't heard the same media.  I have most definitely heard some crowning.

[PatsFanNH]

6 hours ago, Success said:

 

I get your excitement for him, completely. But what you're doing above is kind of what we did for years.  Taking bits & pieces and trying to draw larger conclusions from them.

 

Danny Jones had several games his rookie year that were along the lines of Mac's Dallas game.  Many rookies have.  Mayfield looked so much better his 1st year.  

 

Mac is definitely overhyped nationally, and by Patriots fans in general.  Not all, and you've been realistic - but I have heard very few Pats fans online and elsewhere who have taken that kind of approach.  The conventional wisdom among both the fanbase and their most prominent pundits is that Mac is Young to Brady's Montana, that he is already the best QB from that class, and that he'll continue to progress in a linear fashion and eventually win a bunch of Lombardi's.

 

True story.  

 

The biggest comparison I have heard Jones to Brady has been to 2001. In that respect the teams are very similar.  That is to say it relies heavily on its D and Special Teams and the O is a run first and don’t make mistakes.  Mind you I watch VERY little of ESPN and haven’t watched them for years.  

[Paul Costa]

Tonight is a great opportunity for Jones. Maybe I’m wrong on him. We will see tonight. He just got moved up to the Varsity after running through the JV schedule. If Patriots win tonight or 2 of the next 3 games my opinion of him will change greatly 

[PatsFanNH]

7 hours ago, Success said:

 

I get your excitement for him, completely. But what you're doing above is kind of what we did for years.  Taking bits & pieces and trying to draw larger conclusions from them.

 

Danny Jones had several games his rookie year that were along the lines of Mac's Dallas game.  Many rookies have.  Mayfield looked so much better his 1st year.  

 

Mac is definitely overhyped nationally, and by Patriots fans in general.  Not all, and you've been realistic - but I have heard very few Pats fans online and elsewhere who have taken that kind of approach.  The conventional wisdom among both the fanbase and their most prominent pundits is that Mac is Young to Brady's Montana, that he is already the best QB from that class, and that he'll continue to progress in a linear fashion and eventually win a bunch of Lombardi's.

 

True story.  

 

I don’t watch much TV. (I only stream stuff now and watching MNF on my phone.) So nationally I really don’t know what the talking heads say unless It makes FB like the “rise of the empire” from NFL Network. 
 

only comparison I see to Brady is the style the team is doing. That is they are doing the same thing for Mac that they did with Brady in 01. Asking him to only not LOSE the game and let the D win it.  (Not saying he is Brady just that the style of play and the feel the team has to me feels like the old 2001 group.)