Mac Jones is this years Baker Mayfield. He came into the NFL at his ceiling?

[Max Fischer]

This post seems to have a heavy dose of wishful thinking.

 

For me, Jones is dangerous because he's not asked to do too much, and what he's asked to do, he does well.  The question is whether the Bills can force Jones to perform tasks he's yet to prove proficiency.

 

IMO, first down could be THE key indicator. The Pats have done a great job of making 2nd and 3rd down plays manageable. If the Bills can limit first down plays to three yards or less, it could put pressure on Jones to make plays on 2nd and 3rd, not just take what the defense give them. I'm curious if the Bills will try to jam the receivers to disrupt timing of the short passing game that force Jones to make tight throws. Would leave Edmunds and Milano to take away the short TE and RB safety valve passes. 

[GunnerBill]

59 minutes ago, mattynh said:

Where did he become successful as a WR?  That was my point, the Pats developed him.  I am aware he did not come into the league with the Patriots.

 

He was in his prime in New England. They definitely got his best play out of him. I don't consider that as being "home grown" not when you traded a 2nd rounder for him. 

42 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I went out for a beer with an old friend of mine last night who is from Boston and a fanatical Pats fan (his dad has had season tickets for over 40 years). His comp for Mac Jones was Phil Simms, and that made a ton of sense to me.

 

Before my time I'm afraid. I remember Phil Simms only as a bad color commentator. 

[dave mcbride]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He was in his prime in New England. They definitely got his best play out of him. I don't consider that as being "home grown" not when you traded a 2nd rounder for him. 

 

Before my time I'm afraid. I remember Phil Simms only as a bad color commentator. 

Simms is definitely an important player in NFL history. Not a big arm but a first round pick; won a lot of games; was pretty much always slightly above league average in terms of performance (as per PFR); and game managed a power running team that relied a lot on TEs. He didn't have a HOF career, but he definitely qualifies for the Hall of the Very Good.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Simms is definitely an important player in NFL history. Not a big arm but a first round pick; won a lot of games; was pretty much always slightly above league average in terms of performance (as per PFR); and game managed a power running team that relied a lot on TEs. He didn't have a HOF career, but he definitely qualifies for the Hall of the Very Good.

 

Oh I know who he is, for sure. I just can't make an accurate comparison on a guy I have only seen clips of. 

[Success]

I absolutely love the premature, cartoonishly over-the-top hype about Mac Jones.

 

It's awesome. Because he's not going to be as good as everyone thinks right now. He can't possibly be, because they already have him in the HOF.

 

If you watch Pats games, he benefits greatly from the protection he has.  This isn't to say that he hasn't been very good, but he can't move well, and has to wind up on any throw over 15 yards.  The weaknesses in his game will be much more exposed as time goes on, and his strengths - like accuracy - just won't improve that much more.

 

He's who scouts thought he was.  Most pro ready, least upside.

 

 

[FireChans]

6 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

No sane person expects Mac to be as good as Brady, who is the best quarterback in world history. He is better than anybody who ever tossed a football. It doesn't make me happy to say this but we are here talking about football and it is the truth.

 

Mac is similar in style to Brady in that he has little foot speed, and doesn't have a Josh Allen type cannon for an arm.  They are both accurate passers, and he also, like Brady, is VERY smart. This "smart" thing is something that his critics either don't know or look past, and I get it. Maybe it is hard to gauge his intellect unless you have watched him play quite a bit and/or listened to his interviews. 

 

Despite the above, it would be asinine to think that Mac will ever be as good as Brady, or even almost as good. Brady is 90 years old and he won another Super Bowl. I doubt that anyone else will be last as long as Brady and play at even almost his level. Of course, this is jmo.

 

As far as Mac, I think that it will take some people years (if it ever happens) to admit that other than Trevor Lawerence, Mac looks better than any of the QBs that were drafted this year. Who would you rather have, Fields? Really? The guys on the Jets or 49ers? Sure, OK.  

 

But again, Mac is not, nor ever will be Tom Brady. There may never be another one.   OH.....and we are about to defeat him and the Pats.

Mac is playing very good football and has been very impressive as a rookie.

 

That being said, I’m just not that sold on him. He really doesn’t throw that many wow balls or have incredible plays that other QB’s demonstrate. That back shoulder fade in the EZ last week was an incredible ball, and an incredible decision, but there’s not a ton of that.

 

I think he will end up in the Carr/Cousins spectrum of a good NFL starter, can QB a good team to the playoffs, but can’t elevate. Which, honestly, is good enough. 
 

As an aside, I think he is lucky to be in NE. As a general rule, when “smart” QB’s get hit a bunch and are down 20 at half, they quickly go from “smart” to “scared.” Mac’s contemporary in Miami can tell you all about it.

[aristocrat]

Problem is they have much better coaching in New England than in the factory of sadness.  Dink and dunk offense with screens and misdirection to go along with top defense is a recipe for success. 

[corta765]

Mac is a better passer then Baker and his size helps him better. Baker talent wise and healthy probably is a bigger playmaker in terms of talent, but Jones decision making and passing abilities look much better. The Chad Pennington comparisons are dead on and idk why people see that is a criticism, Chad without injury had the talent to take a team pretty far. Jones with a coach like BB and the system they have works great. Long term IDK where he ends up honestly no QB should be compared to Brady, but I can absolutely see him as a guy who is around for 10 years and has success like Matt Ryan. Bills fans shouldn't be insecure about this Allen is yearly an MVP caliber QB now so have some faith with our guy he can get it done. If Mac does to so be it

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the comparison to Fields and Wilson in particular is very premature. I think Mac would likely be struggling in both of those situations too. Chicago appear to have 5 crash dummies masquerading as an offensive line and the Jets are a hot mess. He is a very specific fit in a very specific scheme. Going to New England was absolutely perfect for him. His skill set marries up exactly with what they want to do. I don't think Mac would look good in either of those other two situations right now. 

 

Not a knock on Mac at all. He is exactly who he is and he fits everything New England looks for in a Quarterback. I am not at all persuaded as some in this thread seem to be that there is a reckoning coming for him some time soon where he turns into a pumpkin. 

Just wait until week 4, or 5, or 6, or 7, or 8, or 9, or 10, or 11 when the tape finally comes out and you’ll see.

 

The tape catches up a lot faster than that. Look at Mike White who played 1.5 games until his career ended.

[SCBills]

Hopeful thinking, but part of me is expecting McDermott/Frazier to put a game plan on tape for future teams to use against NE.   

 

Think back to the first Lamar Jackson game, which we lost due to the Offense being a WIP, but the Defense started to show the league how to defend him (if you have the personnel to do what we did).  

 

I think Mac Jones is solid, and executes the throws they ask him to make.  The throw in his last game to the corner of the end zone for a TD was filthy.  That being said, I've never seen a QB throw to more WIDE OPEN receivers in my life..  They don't have elite playmakers... This is done by scheme, so I'm hoping that McD & Frazier will identify what is being done and show everyone how to defend it. 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by SCBills

[TheBrownBear]

20 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Simms is definitely an important player in NFL history. Not a big arm but a first round pick; won a lot of games; was pretty much always slightly above league average in terms of performance (as per PFR); and game managed a power running team that relied a lot on TEs. He didn't have a HOF career, but he definitely qualifies for the Hall of the Very Good.

Simms had a strong arm and it was basically the only reason he was selected in the first round.  He was insanely unpolished coming out of Morehead State.  He's more like the Josh Allen story than Mac Jones.  Simms eventually became a polished passer and legitimate star after years of injuries and struggles, and probably would have made the HOF if not for all his injuries.  I don't see the Mac Jones comparisons unless you're talking late career Simms.

[FilthyBeast]

If his ceiling is leading his team to first place in the division as a rookie, leading an offense that is scoring 35 points a game, running away with rookie of the year, being in the MVP discussion, etc than I would say the future is still very bright.

 

 

[RyanC883]

9 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

If that patriots defense wasn’t shutting everybody down he would be looking like *****

 

the Pat's had a great plan.  Stout D, two great TEs, and draft a RB who is actually good, unlike Bean.  This is the rookie QB success formula.  

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Simms had a strong arm and it was basically the only reason he was selected in the first round.  He was insanely unpolished coming out of Morehead State.  He's more like the Josh Allen story than Mac Jones.  Simms eventually became a polished passer and legitimate star after years of injuries and struggles, and probably would have made the HOF if not for all his injuries.  I don't see the Mac Jones comparisons unless you're talking late career Simms.

I don't recall him having a particularly strong arm, but it was a long time ago. You're right that he had a ton of injuries over the course of his career, and by the time he became a household name (mid-80s) he had missed a fair amount of time. That's what I remember, at least. I'm not saying he couldn't make the throws, but he was no Jeff George. 

12 minutes ago, corta765 said:

Mac is a better passer then Baker and his size helps him better. Baker talent wise and healthy probably is a bigger playmaker in terms of talent, but Jones decision making and passing abilities look much better. The Chad Pennington comparisons are dead on and idk why people see that is a criticism, Chad without injury had the talent to take a team pretty far. Jones with a coach like BB and the system they have works great. Long term IDK where he ends up honestly no QB should be compared to Brady, but I can absolutely see him as a guy who is around for 10 years and has success like Matt Ryan. Bills fans shouldn't be insecure about this Allen is yearly an MVP caliber QB now so have some faith with our guy he can get it done. If Mac does to so be it

Yeah, people forget that Pennington's arm was good enough before the torn rotator cuff injury (the worst injury a QB can have; it's what Newton had and he can barely throw now). 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I think Tua’s 4 game win streak is challenging Mac. 
 

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

If his ceiling is leading his team to first place in the division as a rookie, leading an offense that is scoring 35 points a game, running away with rookie of the year, being in the MVP discussion, etc than I would say the future is still very bright.

 

 

Mac jones is in the mvp discussion? Lol come on now…I don’t mean this to say he’s not playing well but if this guy isn’t the most overrated/overhyped player in recent memory idk who is. Let’s wait til Tuesday to potentially crown him he could be leading his team to second place in the division they have just played an extra game.  The pats are missing a big statement win from their resume this season imo and Monday night would qualify 

[FilthyBeast]

1 minute ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

I think Tua’s 4 game win streak is challenging Mac. 
 

 

 

 

Quietly the Dolphins are playing great football as well particularly on defense and given their upcoming schedule they will certainly be 'in the hunt' in the final weeks of the season.

 

Still not sure about Tua and his long term viability but if the Bills don't win the division again this year it might be some time before that happens again and you can argue they may be the 3rd best team in the division next year depending on what happens in the offseason.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

I think Tua’s 4 game win streak is challenging Mac. 
 

 

 

Miami is one of the most talented teams they’ve played all season somehow and they lost that game…chargers are decent and they just snuck by them. Something can definitely be said for winning all the layup games you’re supposed to win without blowing a game but it’s on them to prove they’re not the 2020 dolphins. I’m not gonna lose my mind over a team that beat Cleveland and Tennessee missing their entire offense much like I don’t think we’re world beaters for blowing out the banged up saints 

[FilthyBeast]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Mac jones is in the mvp discussion? Lol come on now…I don’t mean this to say he’s not playing well but if this guy isn’t the most overrated/overhyped player in recent memory idk who is. Let’s wait til Tuesday to potentially crown him he could be leading his team to second place in the division they have just played an extra game.  The pats are missing a big statement win from their resume this season imo and Monday night would qualify 

 

The metrics say he's already there when you compare his numbers to the top QB's in the league. And as much drooling there is over the Patriots and Jones right now by the national media just imagine how it's going to look if they come into Buffalo and win which many expect to happen.

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

If that patriots defense wasn’t shutting everybody down he would be looking like *****

 

Their Offense is 7th in the league in scoring.  28 ppg vs. 30 for the Bills.