Here we go again.... Bills beat a decimated shell of a team in NO and now comes the test

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How are the Bills a better team top to bottom?

If you go over to ItalianBills thread on position group to position group breakdown, the consensus appraisal seems to be very close talent wise.

 

 

The Bills should win why?  Because you think they have more talent?  Talent is as talent does - the Bills loss to the Jags showed that if nothing else.

 

No one can have a reasonable discussion with you if you dismiss any counterpoints anyone makes with "Quit making excuses The Bills should win".   You just make yourself sound like a Bot.

 

[teef]

17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Are these the lyrics to an Eagles song?  It's beautiful.

i can't play an instrument, and i'd still be the best artist in the eagles.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Part of this is the type of routes Daboll prefers...lots of hitches and sideline routes that afford little to no YAC opportunities.  Unsure why we almost never run any type of slants that would allow Allen to hit them in stride close to the LOS and let them run.

 

That's a fair take, but I think it's also fair to point out that whether by design or personal wiring, Allen often seems to read plays deep to shallow and hesitate to take an easy throw to the sidelines or the flat.  At times, it's pretty clear that an immediate throw would result in good YAC while a hesitation allows coverage to close up.

 

It's also a point that except for Knox and to some extent Gabe Davis, the Bills receivers are not large bruisers who can gain YAC against smaller corners.

[Billsfan1972]

21 minutes ago, teef said:

why?  so you can post the same thing over and over?  we've been here before with you.  just post last year's box scores, and let us know again that the bills were picked to go to the sb.  people will give you countless reasons why this doesn't mean anything, yet you'll blow it off, and repeat what you've already said.  we get it.

 

did you notice that the only time this thread would go off the rails a bit is when you were involved.  posters were having decent discussions until you chimed in...in your own thread.  don't blame poster's reactions on me.  look at how you handle posting, and deal with yourself.  

So last year's box scores and showing that when they weren't scared of BB, they crushed them, means nothing?  I stated it after last year's first game, that they played into BB's hands and thought they played scared and almost lost.  In NE they buried them?  

 

And yes the Bills are still the #2 betting choice for the SB.  But that mean nothing.....  Let's hear again Any Given Sunday or another cliche.....

 

Let me guess in school you were the rat in the corner trying to pick on others and having your jock pals defend you, because you can't obviously articulate an opinion????

[muppy]

2 hours ago, colin said:

with tre out the d will have some challenges, but star and 49 being in means we have who we need to be fast and physical up front.

 

on O we need to set the tone, and a healthy top 5 guys on the field OL is the key to that.  brown brings so much juice it makes the whole line better.  we need dabol to forget his own tendencies and mix it up and instead of the "hit the open man" O, we need to scheme ways to get bease and most of all diggs the ball.  if Diggs goes off NE is toast.

 

aaaaand of course we have to avoid the billsiest way to lose, which is our special teams getting kicks/punts blocked or just swimming in laundry all day.  as a matter of fact, the O and D need to have a good fear of the color yellow.

Solid top to bottom Concur. Yellow Flags BAD.....avoid Yellow.....tck. JUST DO IT BUFFALO. Its a terrible look and the fanbase is sick and tired of it. That goes double for you Dion. meh not just him....

 

/vent

 

m

[teef]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

So last year's box scores and showing that when they weren't scared of BB, they crushed them, means nothing?  I stated it after last year's first game, that they played into BB's hands and thought they played scared and almost lost.  In NE they buried them?  

 

And yes the Bills are still the #2 betting choice for the SB.  But that mean nothing.....  Let's hear again Any Given Sunday or another cliche.....

 

Let me guess in school you were the rat in the corner trying to pick on others and having your jock pals defend you, because you can't obviously articulate an opinion????

correct.  it means absolutely nothing.

 

you just don't want to hear another opinion.  if you want to blame me for how people are treating, go ahead.  it won't help you, but go ahead.  let me guess...you were the kid in school that instigated arguments, and once they didn't go your way, you ran and complained that you were being bullied?  this isn't about me.  this is about how you have no ability to reason or see other people's points.   figure yourself out, or continue to be treated this way.

[FireChans]

On 11/29/2021 at 9:35 AM, No Place To Hyde said:

You make some very valid and reasonable points. The things that you hope to see are justified. However in all reality there is only 1 thing I need to see. 

 

1. Bills outscore Patriots.

 

Just win. Last night Lamar tossed 4 INTs. Baltimore still won. Last week the Ravens were down Lamar and Hollywood. Baltimore still won. They have had approx 317 running backs tear an ACL this year. Still winning. It always looks ugly. But they find ways. That's all that matters. 

 

Buffalo can play ugly, mistake filled football. Turn the ball over several times. As long as they win. No extra points for pretty in this league.

I don't think we are a team that can win ugly this season.

[BuffaninSarasota]

7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

So last year's box scores and showing that when they weren't scared of BB, they crushed them, means nothing?  I stated it after last year's first game, that they played into BB's hands and thought they played scared and almost lost.  In NE they buried them?  

 

And yes the Bills are still the #2 betting choice for the SB.  But that mean nothing.....  Let's hear again Any Given Sunday or another cliche.....

 

Let me guess in school you were the rat in the corner trying to pick on others and having your jock pals defend you, because you can't obviously articulate an opinion????

what's funny is that you are digging yourself a bigger hole & don't even realize it

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The formation tell is definitely something the Bills have been trying to address since the Jags game. Think they accept they were too predictable. Setting a tendency is not always a bad thing if it gives you a big moments counter punch but 75% is too high, for certain. Equally agree the point about the running backs. I have said this before that I am not sure the backs they have drafted really compliment the way they try and block and the way they want their offense to attack more generally. I don't think the backs suck or necessarily that the line totally sucks. But the line is the bigger problem of the two for me. This season it has been the critical flaw on this football team - and the injuries / covid / constant shuffling of positions has not helped. 

 

I think the RBs, the OL, and the blocking by receivers have worked together to create a mess.

Turner of Cover1 somewhat alludes to this in a recent piece he did called "Breida Szn?" 

 

 

He points out that while the Bills OL RB is not always strong and well-coordinated, there are yards to be had - but (he's singling out Moss, but true of Motor as well), our backs are too slow to read and react to what's going on with the OL.  I think Turner exculpates the OL a bit much in a couple of his examples where the lineman clearly allowed the defender to get off his block, but the overall point is sound - it's in part mental processing, and in part just lack of quickness in executing cuts, and the result is that more of our runs get stuffed or only gain 1-2 yds where a more decisive and faster back would be able to gain yards.

 

To me it's sort of a "perfect storm" - an OL that struggles to create displacement, making reads muddled; combined with young backs who struggle to decode reads that aren't clean and lack quickness/speed to get to the holes (and get to the edge) if they aren't decisive.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

To me it's sort of a "perfect storm" - an OL that struggles to create displacement, making reads muddled; combined with young backs who struggle to decode reads that aren't clean and lack quickness/speed to get to the holes (and get to the edge) if they aren't decisive.

 

It's exactly this. Was last year too. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

So last year's box scores and showing that when they weren't scared of BB, they crushed them, means nothing? 

 

Correct.  Last year's box scores mean nothing.

 

15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And yes the Bills are still the #2 betting choice for the SB.

 

Correct.  Betting choices mean that's how Joe Average is willing to risk his rent money on a bet, which has to do with perception and not reality.

 

15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Let me guess in school you were the rat in the corner trying to pick on others and having your jock pals defend you, because you can't obviously articulate an opinion????

 

If you've run out of actual counterpoints and people are not accepting the points you offer, it's time to agree to disagree and move on.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

It's exactly this. Was last year too. 

 

The thing is, we've been doing the same thing with the same players and expecting different results.

 

When we signed Breida, I think we were all "OK, Change of Pace back that will give us a wider run play vocabulary"....then we see him inactive week after week.

When we ran back basically the same OL except for drafting a couple of talented but raw OLmen, I was like "OK, they must have decided the run scheme was at fault so we're going to try to address this schematically (oh, and maybe Forrest Lamp will overcome his injuries with our S&C staff and be an upgrade)"

 

Then Lamp is IR'd/released and we make no changes

Then we seem to be running the same plays with the same run/pass imbalance from shotgun and under center.

 

It makes me want to thump my head against the wall

 

The best explanation I've come up with is that Daboll honestly doesn't believe we need a run game.  He may pay lip service when forced, but he really believes that there is no offensive downside to coming out of the tunnel with a game plan to sling the ball 50 times and run 5, when the opponent knows that's what you're going to do and has schemed up exotic pressures to take advantage of that tendency.

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, teef said:

i can't play an instrument, and i'd still be the best artist in the eagles.

I bet you wouldn’t say that to Don Henley’s face!

[GunnerBill]

47 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The thing is, we've been doing the same thing with the same players and expecting different results.

 

When we signed Breida, I think we were all "OK, Change of Pace back that will give us a wider run play vocabulary"....then we see him inactive week after week.

When we ran back basically the same OL except for drafting a couple of talented but raw OLmen, I was like "OK, they must have decided the run scheme was at fault so we're going to try to address this schematically (oh, and maybe Forrest Lamp will overcome his injuries with our S&C staff and be an upgrade)"

 

Then Lamp is IR'd/released and we make no changes

Then we seem to be running the same plays with the same run/pass imbalance from shotgun and under center.

 

It makes me want to thump my head against the wall

 

The best explanation I've come up with is that Daboll honestly doesn't believe we need a run game.  He may pay lip service when forced, but he really believes that there is no offensive downside to coming out of the tunnel with a game plan to sling the ball 50 times and run 5, when the opponent knows that's what you're going to do and has schemed up exotic pressures to take advantage of that tendency.

 

 

 

See I am with you largely but I think I come to the view that Beane and McDermott took the view that what they have is good enough and that their little money was better spent on a receiver that, largely, keeps Gabe Davis off the field. My apportionment of blame starts there before it comes back to gameplan. I think Daboll has showed he is willing to run in it games where the running is having some effect. He does, I agree, abandon it quickly when it stalls. To an extent I understand that. I want the game in Josh Allen's hands not in Zack Moss's. 

[BuffaninSarasota]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Correct.  Last year's box scores mean nothing.

 

 

Correct.  Betting choices mean that's how Joe Average is willing to risk his rent money on a bet, which has to do with perception and not reality.

 

 

If you've run out of actual counterpoints and people are not accepting the points you offer, it's time to agree to disagree and move on.

FTW

[Jrb1979]

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/nfl-odds-picks-predictions-experts-bet-patriots-cover-spread-bills-week-13-2021

 

If you want a good opinion about the game this week read what bettors at Action Network are saying. 

 

From the article,

While most people will see this as a step up in class for the Patriots, the Bills are just 3-4 when facing teams other than the Dolphins, Jets and Texans. The Bills’ last win came against Trevor Siemian, who never really gave the Saints a chance, going 17-of-29 for just 163 yards with one touchdown and one interception.

[John from Riverside]

Hmmmmm

 

The pats just beat a shell of a team and now comes THEIR real test

[Billsfan1972]

45 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/nfl-odds-picks-predictions-experts-bet-patriots-cover-spread-bills-week-13-2021

 

If you want a good opinion about the game this week read what bettors at Action Network are saying. 

 

From the article,

While most people will see this as a step up in class for the Patriots, the Bills are just 3-4 when facing teams other than the Dolphins, Jets and Texans. The Bills’ last win came against Trevor Siemian, who never really gave the Saints a chance, going 17-of-29 for just 163 yards with one touchdown and one interception.

Yep the Bills should be underdogs.  How the mighty have fallen......😜

[Patrick Duffy]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep the Bills should be underdogs.  How the mighty have fallen......😜

Actually Bills probably would be underdogs if game was in N.E.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 11/29/2021 at 9:40 AM, Billsfan1972 said:

Does anyone remember last year......  

 

Played scared game 1 vs. NE & almost lost (great weather)

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401220115

 

Game 2 - Played 2020 Bills football

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401220130

 

Forget the run (sarcasm) and punch them in the nose.

 

 

It was not great weather.  You state that but the links you show don't demonstrate.

 

IMO the shoulder injury was probably the more relevant

 

The point is, the data show a different game plan, but it's your (probably faulty) inference as to the reason for the game plan.