Here we go again.... Bills beat a decimated shell of a team in NO and now comes the test

[BuffaninSarasota]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Because those are the facts.  The Bills were one of the 2-3 SB favourites starting the year.  They were still the favourites 2-3 weeks ago.  They have been okay health wise (Tre White notwithstanding) and to this point have been meh imo.  

 

They've already stumbled a few times and they should have learned from those.  

 

Yes a little hyperbole, but explain to me why they should not win Monday night and what it says about them if they do lose a game they absolutely must. 

 

why are you harping on the bolded? SB betting odds/favorites mean absolutely zero when it comes to performance on the field. They equate to potential, not reality or actual results....

Edited November 29, 2021 by BuffaninSarasota
add

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

 

why are you harping on the bolded? SB betting odds/favorites mean absolutely zero when it comes to performance on the field. They equate to potential, not reality or actual results....

Because they are still considered one the most talented & complete teams in the NFL.  If they lose it is not because they don't have those things going for them, so then what is it?

 

I love these ridiculous posts that now defend the team even when they lose and look for excuses. 

 

Yes they were not going to go 17-0, and even the 14-3, 15-2 predictions were absurd, however I unequivocally am stating that there is no excuse to lose Monday night at home to the team they are chasing, that they are better then with a rookie QB.

 

Could they lose to TB & NE on the road, sure, however for this week, if you you want to take out your pom poms and continue to defend the Bills win or lose, be my guest.   

 

I for one will say it is unacceptable for a team with SB asperations in a game they need to win.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Billsfan1972

[muppy]

6 hours ago, teef said:

i think it's nice that you tried so hard for me.  i'm making you a better poster.  you're welcome.

I will come clean and state I am a much better poster Now than I ever was at bbmb. I created chat chops at billievers and now I am at the top of my chat game just sayin teef.....we've known each other a long while Peace Man GO BILLS oui oui mon cherie LMAO

 

haha

 

m

Edited November 29, 2021 by Muppy

[BuffaninSarasota]

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Because they are still considered one the most talented & complete teams in the NFL.  If they lose it is not because they don't have those things going for them, so then what is it?

 

I love these ridiculous posts that now defend the team even when they lose and look for excuses. 

 

Yes they were not going to go 17-0, and even the 14-3, 15-2 predictions were absurd, however I unequivocally am stating that there is no excuse to lose Monday night at home to the team they are chasing, that they are better then with a rookie QB.

 

Could they lose to TB & NE on the road, sure, however for this week, if you you want to take out your pom poms and continue to defend the Bills win or lose, be my guest.   

 

I for one will say it is unacceptable for a team with SB asperations.

 I, for one, don't blindly defend the Bills  - this year for me has been largely unsatisfying for several reasons

 

I just happen to disagree with the line of reasoning that suggests the Bills SHOULD win due to SB odds, power rankings, or any other subjective gobbledygook... 

[billsfan89]

I feel much better about this game than I did the Colts game. The Bills were out Star the team's best run defending defensive linemen and Brown the team's best O-line players along with Mongo one of the teams top 2 guards (I know that says a lot about the team's guard situation but I do think Mongo is decent). It was a Buzzsaw that the Bills ran into. For the Pats game the Bills will most likely have both Star and Brown back along the lines and possibly get Mongo back too. I know Tre is out but that isn't as big of a factor with the Pats WR's not being all that. I feel much better about this game. It will be close but I am feeling a win.

[BuffaloMatt]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Because those are the facts.  The Bills were one of the 2-3 SB favourites starting the year.  They were still the favourites 2-3 weeks ago.  They have been okay health wise (Tre White notwithstanding) and to this point have been meh imo.  

 

They've already stumbled a few times and they should have learned from those.  

 

Yes a little hyperbole, but explain to me why they should not win Monday night and what it says about them if they do lose a game they absolutely must. 

Is Hyperbole the new Super Bowl? 

[billsfan1959]

59 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Because they are still considered one the most talented & complete teams in the NFL.  If they lose it is not because they don't have those things going for them, so then what is it?

 

I love these ridiculous posts that now defend the team even when they lose and look for excuses. 

 

Yes they were not going to go 17-0, and even the 14-3, 15-2 predictions were absurd, however I unequivocally am stating that there is no excuse to lose Monday night at home to the team they are chasing, that they are better then with a rookie QB.

 

Could they lose to TB & NE on the road, sure, however for this week, if you you want to take out your pom poms and continue to defend the Bills win or lose, be my guest.   

 

I for one will say it is unacceptable for a team with SB asperations.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

 I, for one, don't blindly defend the Bills  - this year for me has been largely unsatisfying for several reasons

 

I just happen to disagree with the line of reasoning that suggests the Bills SHOULD win due to SB odds, power rankings, or any other subjective gobbledygook... 

 

99% of the people on this board disagree with his line of reasoning with everything.

[hemma]

How many 3rd downs will Beasley need to convert before a vein in Belichek’s forehead explodes?

Now understand that I’m not an official Doctor, but I think it starts to swell at 5 and explode at 9.

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

99% of the people on this board disagree with his line of reasoning with everything.

No you disagree.  I'm not defeatist like some.  Stating what should be the opinion of 99%, that the Bills should win a game they absolutley need to/  If they don't there should be a lot of questions about them.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Because they are still considered one the most talented & complete teams in the NFL.

 

Seems like every time I catch the pre-game pundits these last few weeks, I learn that the Patriots and Bengals are the most complete teams in the NFL, and that the Bills are far too one-dimensional in their offense to have any chance of success, and can't stop the run.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Seems like every time I catch the pre-game pundits these last few weeks, I learn that the Patriots and Bengals are the most complete teams in the NFL, and that the Bills are far too one-dimensional in their offense to have any chance of success, and can't stop the run.

 

 I heard it on 3 different networks in one day.

 

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No you disagree.  I'm not defeatist like some.  Stating what should be the opinion of 99%, that the Bills should win a game they absolutley need to/  If they don't there should be a lot of questions about them.

 

Are you really saying I'm the only one who disagrees with you?  Go through every single thread you're in, multiple people disagree with you all the time.  I don't think there's a poster on this board who people disagree with more.

You just don't understand context and don't like differing opinions so you'll crusade.  

[Billsfan1972]

23 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

 I heard it on 3 different networks in one day.

 

 

Are you really saying I'm the only one who disagrees with you?  Go through every single thread you're in, multiple people disagree with you all the time.  I don't think there's a poster on this board who people disagree with more.

You just don't understand context and don't like differing opinions so you'll crusade.  

You said 99% disagree with me.  I stated that was wrong.

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Seems like every time I catch the pre-game pundits these last few weeks, I learn that the Patriots and Bengals are the most complete teams in the NFL, and that the Bills are far too one-dimensional in their offense to have any chance of success, and can't stop the run.

And 2 weeks ago they were still the favourites.  You really think the Bengals or Pats will make the SB?

 

Oh and prior to Indy the Bills according to most here were the best defense in the NFL.

 

So fickle.....

[Thriftygamer83]

Run it down their throats, stop the run, pressure Jones around, and seal the deal with mistake free football.  If we cannot do that we'll be a second-tier team.  

[Toyo321]

Until the Bills can round out their play calling to start being less predictable when they have the ball,  and taking what the opposing team is giving them, they will be in the same position they have been in all the games they lost this year.  They will get rattled, start getting stupid penalties and they will lose.  Josh for what ever reason is so amped up in these games he is missing throws that are not even close to having the receiver making an attempt on the ball.

 

He has lost his ability to get through his progressions, and he has even lost his ability to gauge when he needs to get rid of the ball.  His sacks this year are 50-50.  Bad O-line blocking and him not taking easier throw for shorter yardage instead of throwing the home run ball all the time, which results in him holding onto the ball too long and losing potential positive yards downfield,  with a sack or by him throwing a INT.

 

The Rams game last night was so similar to what Buffalo is doing wrong on offense lately.  Constantly trying to get the big play on pass attempts and forcing the ball when it should not be thrown to begin with, the pic 6.  Rams stopped running the ball and started looking for big passes down field and that cost them that game.  Also bad QB decision's.  

 

Buffalo is going to live or die these next 4 weeks on the play calling diversity.  If they can't get back to what they did last year and fix the obvious O-line related issues they will be hard pressed to win 1 out of their next 4 games.

 

I said this last year prior to the AFC CG that they needed to get the running backs involved more in the game planning.  Josh running the ball is a last resort.  He is going to get hit and he is going to get hurt, it is inevitable. 

 

Also the defense is going to have to dial it up bunch of notches on pass rushing, with stunts and or corner blitz's.  They have to, or TB and NE will walk away with wins.

 

I have been waiting all year for this offense to get back on track and after 11 games it still is not where it needs to be.

 

Daboll better truly realize he is going to have to get creative to out coach NE and Bill B. and the same thing with Tampa and Bruce Arians.

 

I think the coaching in the next three games against these two teams makes or breaks the rest of this season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Toyo321

[Billsfan1972]

9 hours ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

Run it down their throats, stop the run, pressure Jones around, and seal the deal with mistake free football.  If we cannot do that we'll be a second-tier team.  

I showed last years box scores.  The Bills were much better when not scared of NE's secondary & passing.  Sure run the ball and make sure NE respects it, but this team wins through the air.

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Because they are still considered one the most talented & complete teams in the NFL.  If they lose it is not because they don't have those things going for them, so then what is it?

 

I love these ridiculous posts that now defend the team even when they lose and look for excuses. 

 

Yes they were not going to go 17-0, and even the 14-3, 15-2 predictions were absurd, however I unequivocally am stating that there is no excuse to lose Monday night at home to the team they are chasing, that they are better then with a rookie QB.

 

Could they lose to TB & NE on the road, sure, however for this week, if you you want to take out your pom poms and continue to defend the Bills win or lose, be my guest.   

 

I for one will say it is unacceptable for a team with SB asperations in a game they need to win.

 

I think the answer, very simply, is that the talent on the offensive line was grossly overestimated. Feliciano has always been overrated IMO and is worse post weight loss (and has been hurt) and they have had serious regression from both tackles. I am not sure the Williams regression could have been reasonably foreseen, and the Dawkins situation is (at least in part) covid related. But the decision to run it back with an oline that was only average last year (above average pass blocking and below average run blocking) should absolutely be questioned. 

 

There have been other mistakes too, I was on record about not liking the punter situation which was a big part of the loss to Pittsburgh but in three of our losses this year the offensive line has undermined us. Indy was more about defensive failings against a hard nosed, run it down your throat, football team which we all knew was a potential vulnerability and is just an example of no team in the NFL being without its flaws. The other 3 losses that oline has been a major issue. It isn't the only reason for our under performance relative to expectations but it is by far the most significant one. 

47 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I showed last years box scores.  The Bills were much better when not scared of NE's secondary & passing.  Sure run the ball and make sure NE respects it, but this team wins through the air.

 

Agreed. 

[No_Matter_What]

38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the answer, very simply, is that the talent on the offensive line was grossly overestimated. Feliciano has always been overrated IMO and is worse post weight loss (and has been hurt) and they have had serious regression from both tackles. I am not sure the Williams regression could have been reasonably foreseen, and the Dawkins situation is (at least in part) covid related. But the decision to run it back with an oline that was only average last year (above average pass blocking and below average run blocking) should absolutely be questioned. 

I think that your last sentence sort of contradicts what you wrote before. I don't remember that resigning Williams was in any way questioned before the season, I'd say we were all pretty happy. Predicting Dawkins decline was also nearly impossible, and I still believe covid is the main reason. I think it is really hard to question FO when it comes to tackles. They kept both above average starters on OL which was working last year, and added 3rd pick in Brown (who seems to be very good) and another developmental depth in Doyle. They also tried to add depth in Hart.

 

As for guards, they resigned Feliciano, who was serviceable, and added Forrest Lamp who was experienced starter IIRC (I don't remember what went wrong with him). They had apparently some faith in Ford at guard and I struggle to blame them since he played a lot at tackle his rookie season and was injured a lot in the second season. They took a shot with Anderson in draft.

 

I think people overestimate any GM's ability to upgrade IOL through FA. How many free agents were in fact available who would for sure upgrade our OL? How many of them were affordable? Would you overpay for any of them? I am not saying that it was impossible to do anything, I am just saying that options were extremely limited and you are competing with 31 other teams and have salary cap.

 

Most glaring (only?) mistake seems to be taking Basham over Humphrey or maybe someone else in draft. I remember that I wanted IOL in the secound round after we took Rousseau and Humphrey seemed like a very obvious choice. But they probably felt that Basham was too big of a value not to take him, and I love this approach in general. Right now it seems that they misjudged their talent, and it also seems that even if they felt that Basham was BPA this was a place to deflect slightly from BPA and fill (very important) position of need. I guess/hope that they will learn from that.

 

But yeah in general I am a huge fan of building an OL, even at expense of being worse elsewhere. So I hope next season Beane will be more active in this respect (and I am pretty sure he will).

 

EDIT: Maybe they did not take Humphrey because they saw him as center only. I think he plays center for Chiefs, right? Was there anybody else worth taking in the second? Next OG taken was Wyatt Davis at 86 to Vikings.

Edited November 30, 2021 by No_Matter_What

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, No_Matter_What said:

I think that your last sentence sort of contradicts what you wrote before. I don't remember that resigning Williams was in any way questioned before the season, I'd say we were all pretty happy. Predicting Dawkins decline was also nearly impossible, and I still believe covid is the main reason. I think it is really hard to question FO when it comes to tackles. They kept both above average starters on OL which was working last year, and added 3rd pick in Brown (who seems to be very good) and another developmental depth in Doyle. They also tried to add depth in Hart.

 

As for guards, they resigned Feliciano, who was serviceable, and added Forrest Lamp who was experienced starter IIRC (I don't remember what went wrong with him). They had apparently some faith in Ford at guard and I struggle to blame them since he played a lot at tackle his rookie season and was injured a lot in the second season. They took a shot with Anderson in draft.

 

I think people overestimate any GM's ability to upgrade IOL through FA. How many free agents were in fact available who would for sure upgrade our OL? How many of them were affordable? Would you overpay for any of them? I am not saying that it was impossible to do anything, I am just saying that options were extremely limited and you are competing with 31 other teams and have salary cap.

 

Most glaring (only?) mistake seems to be taking Basham over Humphrey or maybe someone else in draft. I remember that I wanted IOL in the secound round after we took Rousseau and Humphrey seemed like a very obvious choice. But they probably felt that Basham was too big of a value not to take him, and I love this approach in general. Right now it seems that they misjudged their talent, and it also seems that even if they felt that Basham was BPA this was a place to deflect slightly from BPA and fill (very important) position of need. I guess/hope that they will learn from that.

 

But yeah in general I am a huge fan of building an OL, even at expense of being worse elsewhere. So I hope next season Beane will be more active in this respect (and I am pretty sure he will).

 

I don't think it does. The point is they decided to run it back with a line that was average last year. The tackle situations were not obviously foreseeable but I think most people knew it wasn't the tackles that were the issue last year. There were cheaper options on the market if they didn't want to go and do a Joe Thuney type deal - Kevin Zeitler and Trai Turner off a down year with the Chargers were two that could have been attractive. 

 

I agree they have been unlucky. I was with them in expecting the line to be about the same as it was last year - serviceable. But we are now asking why has the season so far been a little below expectations and the answer to that is in large part - they just haven't protected well enough on offense to have our unit be as consistent as it was last year. You better believe Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott are second guessing the decisions they made on that front in the spring right now. Even when you think a decision is justified at the time you make it if that decision fails you have to question it. The decisions they took on the oline will be questioned inside the building, let alone outside!

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

Oh and prior to Indy the Bills according to most here were the best defense in the NFL.

 

 

I mean they are still the #1 ranked defense in the NFL because the official NFL way of ranking defenses is yards. They are all the way down at #2 in points. 

 

Do I think the schedule plays into those rankings somewhat? Yes. But so does it every single year for every single defense. The Bills defense was ranked 14th (and 16th in points) last year. I think they were probably objectively better than that but they played a lot of good offenses last year. Welcome to the NFL. You play the schedule in front of you and they are not even team to team or year to year.