Here we go again.... Bills beat a decimated shell of a team in NO and now comes the test

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, jletha said:

I think a difference is that 1) they havent had a really ugly loss. Theyre losses are mostly close to good teams (besides week 1). 2) They are rolling without any hiccups. If they had won 4 of 5 with a head scratcher in the mix Id feel different. But they come out ready to play week after week. Mac Jones isnt really stellar but is playing well and the defense is just flat out good.

I personally don’t see any head scratching losses for us…we needed edmunds and star for that colts game and they weren’t available. AJ Klein had a historically bad performance so we probably decided it was better to roll with more dbs than two terrible linebackers and Milano.    We were missing two starting offensive linemen and Dawson Knox for the jags game. Neither result is very surprising to me. If we get all those guys back healthy after this mini bye week we are a completely different team. 

[PatsFanNH]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

With all respect, comparing us to "every talking head who states the Bills are a one trick pony" isn't a very credible argument here.

Even now, the national media doesn't pay a lot of attention to the details of Bills football, while we all do.

 

Here are our last 4 games:

Rush attempts: 14  Pass attempts: 47

Rush attempts: 28  Pass attempts: 28

Rush attempts: 13  Pass attempts: 40

Rush attempts: 32  Pass attempts: 28

 

I think it's simplistic to say "the Bills are a one trick pony".  We can run - when Daboll puts his mind to it in the game plan.  We could last season.  We have this season.  The problem is more that Daboll looks at certain teams and decides that the way to attack them is by passing, so it's clear when we take the field that our plan is to play from the shotgun and Let "er Rip.  And we'd become very predictable with running from under center 75% of the time, while passing from shotgun 75% of the time (probably more if situational down-and-distance tendencies were taken into account).

 

IF McDermott has succeeded in "coaching his coach" that a credible run threat is a must-have Every.  Game. Whether You Think You Can Beat Them Passing Or Not., we might get someplace.  But I'm currently unpersuaded.

 

I also said take Allen out of the equation for runs. Your team ran 

 

Jags -9 times

jets -21 times

Colts - 11 times

NO - 24 times

 

You noticing what I am Hapless? When your team runs you win, when you don’t you lose. Mind you Jets are awful and NO O was beyond inept but still you ran you won.. the team was balanced, when it wasn’t the team was not and lost.  
 

Again I was never saying you can’t run just that the Bills for whatever reason never stick with it and against good teams, especially in the playoffs, will come back to bite them hard especially against a well coached team like NE. 
 

I will say this now if you run less than 15 times (not counting Allen) on Monday night the Bills will lose. 

23 minutes ago, poblano said:

Who are the two 2nd rounders CBs?

I assume  you are referring to the two DE's, wich is not correct, at least one of them (Epenesa) is a regular and solid-non spectacular  player

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m a Pats fan, I was talking about Jo Juan Williams and another CB that I think was cut.. but yet we have Jones and Jackson as starters and both undrafted was weird how they found them but wigged badly on second rounders.. 

[vincec]

This game will be won in the trenches, like all big games. On paper, NE seems to have an edge there but that’s why they play the game.

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, vincec said:

This game will be won in the trenches, like all big games. On paper, NE seems to have an edge there but that’s why they play the game.

Again why is a team that went 7-9 last year, starting a rookie QB, now the equals or better than the team that was 13-3 in 2020 and even 2 weeks ago the SB betting favourite?

 

Oh yea and at home too?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

Dugger is a safety, I forget which one but his official position is that. Beasley will probably have Mills (Ugh) or the kid they promoted from practice squad when Jonathan Jones got hurt. 
 

hmm funny Pats have 3 Undrafted CB who are damn good but we drafted 2 CB in the second round who can’t get on the field.. lol makes no sense.. ( sorry thinking out loud lol)

 

They have used Dugger in some big nickel packages as opposed to a true slot. They even did that some yesterday against Tennessee. Mills did play in the slit some too that is true.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

I also said take Allen out of the equation for runs. Your team ran 

 

Jags -9 times

jets -21 times

Colts - 11 times

NO - 24 times

 

What's the justification for taking Allen "out of the equation"?   Running is part of Allen's game, including designed runs.  He runs consistently 6-7 times per game for 25-35 yds per game.

 

2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

You noticing what I am Hapless? When your team runs you win, when you don’t you lose. Mind you Jets are awful and NO O was beyond inept but still you ran you won.. the team was balanced, when it wasn’t the team was not and lost. 

 

I don't think you can entirely do the cause-and-effect thing there LOL.  There are other factors at play. 

 

But certainly with the Jags, Daboll came out and said "we think you have a suspect secondary, and we're going to throw it in your teeth" and had no plan for a credible run game, and that backfired - because he planned to have us function as a "spread offense" and if there's one sort of offense Meyer should be able to shut down, that would be a spread offense.

 

2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Again I was never saying you can’t run just that the Bills for whatever reason never stick with it and against good teams, especially in the playoffs, will come back to bite them hard especially against a well coached team like NE. 

 

There would be some element of truth that we can't run very successfully against teams with good DLs.  Part of that is our backs (Singletary and Moss) don't have the acceleration or the speed to run outside the tackles or from Shotgun.  And our OL doesn't open big gaping holes between the tackles, so they struggle with vision and choosing the right lane.

 

The reason we don't stick with the run is IMO very simple.  Daboll has openly stated a philosophy "everyone wants a balanced offense, until something isn't working then you better do more of the one thing and less of the other".  He legitimately doesn't see value in continuing to try to run when it isn't working effectively. 

 

As a former DC, of course, McDermott understands that when an opponent completely discards part of their game and you no longer have to defend it to keep it ineffective, the defense can just key-off on the remaining dimension.  I think McDermott's style as a HC has been "hands off" on the offense as long as it was working, but Jacksonville was a huge wake-up call for him, and then the Colts game was the second alarm.

 

2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

I will say this now if you run less than 15 times (not counting Allen) on Monday night the Bills will lose. 

 

I agree with this point.  Daboll may agree with this point - the first NE game last season was the one where after the game, someone on the Bills said we practiced 50 plays on Friday and 2 of them were pass plays.  We ran 38 times and passed 18 times that game. 

 

So we'll see.

 

 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I have 100% confidence in the Bills talent and skill positions, but again that nagging feeling whether NO was at all an indicator of where the Bills are.  

 

I said the same after the Dolphins & Jets games.

 

They should beat the Pats and by 10 imo, but I would take very little from the NO game that they still need to clean up things and particularly on defense be aggressive vs. NE.

 

So some things I want to see.

 

1. Pressure on Jones
2. Don't play a loose secondary
3. Don't allow underneath as Jones will take easy completions and yac
4. Allen takes what is given 
5. Careful not to force the ball as NE seems to deflect a lot and are opportunistic
6. Get outside the pocket 

 

Most of all be aggressive like they were game #2 last year vs. NE.  Don't give Belichek too much respect, which they did the first game in 2020 and almost lost it.  Take a look at the two box scores from last year.  Seems pretty obvious what the Bills need to do.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401220115

 

vs.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401220130

 

  Derrick Henry is a one man offense add to that no AJ Brown and that game is way different with Tennessee and NE.         Pats have been fortunate no major injuries while the Bills have had CoVid issues and major injuries.

  Buffalo needs about as much motivation to get up for this game as Michigan did for Ohio State it’s on them to finish the job like the Wolverines did.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again why is a team that went 7-9 last year, starting a rookie QB, now the equals or better than the team that was 13-3 in 2020 and even 2 weeks ago the SB betting favourite?

 

Oh yea and at home too?

 

Because that's how they're playing and how we're playing, was this a trick question?

 

Last year was then.  This is now.  Records don't carry over.

 

NE had a number of veterans who opted out last season but returned this season.  They spent big in FA, including adding a premier pass rusher in Judon, two of the top TE in FA in Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith, and a bunch of other re-signings or signings.  They improved at many positions since last season.

 

The Bills pretty much chose to "run it back" talent-wise.  We added a WR and an RB (who has mostly been on the bench) and in some ways, drafted for the future with high-ceiling guys regarded as raw, and doubling-down at the same positions (two DE, two OTs).  Our play has been inconsistent this season.  Our high powered offense just got skunked by lowly Jacksonville and we just got the ***** kicked out of us by the Colts.   We've been highly penalized, including stupid pre- and post- snap penalties.

 

We've also had highs, of course. 

 

In contrast, the Patriots have won 7 of their last 8 and the loss went to overtime. 

 

Now the fine print may paint a less dominant picture.  I'd like to have played the Titans without Henry, Brown, and Jones or the Browns without Chubb or Hunt and Mayfield going out injured. 

 

But the fact remains, they've won 6 in a row and 7 of their last 8, while we've split our last 6 games including an inexplicable loss to Jacksonville and very bad losses to the Titans and Colts. 

 

Its a "you are what your record says you are" thing.

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Buffalo needs about as much motivation to get up for this game as Michigan did for Ohio State it’s on them to finish the job like the Wolverines did.

 

I feel like this game is the biggest game of McDermott's tenure.

 

Not necessarily the biggest game for the Bills ... but for McDermott, this is a must-win against Bill Belichick when the Patriots* really have no business atop the AFC East and are only there because the Bills have lost a couple games they should have easily won.

 

[FilthyBeast]

2 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

The titans were also basically a shell of their team as well. Every team is banged up and guys all over are less than 100%, but they're missing WR1, WR2, RB1 as well as starters at LB and G.

Out - Julio Jones, Nate Davis, AJ Brown, Rashaan Evans, Jeremy McNichols, David Long, Derrick Henry is on IR too.  

 

That's just one game though, Pats thoroughly beat a lot of other solid teams that were mostly healthy including the Chargers and Browns.

[billsfan1959]

49 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

I also said take Allen out of the equation for runs. Your team ran 

 

Jags -9 times

jets -21 times

Colts - 11 times

NO - 24 times

 

You noticing what I am Hapless? When your team runs you win, when you don’t you lose. Mind you Jets are awful and NO O was beyond inept but still you ran you won.. the team was balanced, when it wasn’t the team was not and lost.  
 

Again I was never saying you can’t run just that the Bills for whatever reason never stick with it and against good teams, especially in the playoffs, will come back to bite them hard especially against a well coached team like NE. 
 

I will say this now if you run less than 15 times (not counting Allen) on Monday night the Bills will lose. 

 

I’m a Pats fan

 

First you can't take Allen out of the equation. Last I checked, his rushes still  count. I don't hear anyone saying if you take Lamar Jackson out of the equation, the Ravens would be last in the league in rushing at 70 YPG. Allen, like Jackson is a rushing weapon. It is part of the offensive identity and needs to be accounted for by a defense.

 

Second, the Bills this year and last year have not been a team concerned with how much they run, as opposed to being able to run when they need to. You want to say when the Bills have more than 15 rushes, without Allen, they win. The truth is, almost all of the Bills' wins have been double digit wins and included sizeable leads during the game.  While they may have more rushes in their wins, most of those rushes were after the Bills had a decent lead - not the reason for the lead.

 

The difference between last year and this year is this: Their best starting linemen in both pass and run blocking have played together a grand total of 4 out of 11 games this year. Without them, they have struggled to run the ball when they needed to - and they have also struggled in pass protection as well. When their best lineman have played together, they are averging almost 39 PPG, 470 YPG, 28 rushes PG, and 135 rushing YPG. I am hoping they will be playing together for the rest of the year, starting next Monday night. If they are, I don't have any concerns with them being able to run the ball when they need to.

 

You are a Pats fan. You don't understand the intracacies of our team better than we do.

 

And I don't pretend to know everything about your team. Quite honestly, I don't care enough to look beyond the fact they are 8-4 and playing good football. When they play, we'll know which team is better on that day. That is typically how it works. 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by billsfan1959

[78thealltimegreat]

11 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I feel like this game is the biggest game of McDermott's tenure.

 

Not necessarily the biggest game for the Bills ... but for McDermott, this is a must-win against Bill Belichick when the Patriots* really have no business atop the AFC East and are only there because the Bills have lost a couple games they should have easily won.

 

Everyone is going to pick New England in this game and the Bills know it. People expect the patriots to march into Buffalo and just take the Bills apart.  This shouldn’t have happened total eggs against the Jags and Colts who Buffalo is way better talent wise caused this.

 You’re right this isn’t just on McDermott this is on his coaching staff 

Edited November 29, 2021 by 78thealltimegreat

[george c]

If Brown and if Star are just recovering from Covid, they will both be useless. 

Been there, done that. 

[Billsfan1972]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Because that's how they're playing and how we're playing, was this a trick question?

 

Last year was then.  This is now.  Records don't carry over.

 

NE had a number of veterans who opted out last season but returned this season.  They spent big in FA, including adding a premier pass rusher in Judon, two of the top TE in FA in Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith, and a bunch of other re-signings or signings.  They improved at many positions since last season.

 

The Bills pretty much chose to "run it back" talent-wise.  We added a WR and an RB (who has mostly been on the bench) and in some ways, drafted for the future with high-ceiling guys regarded as raw, and doubling-down at the same positions (two DE, two OTs).  Our play has been inconsistent this season.  Our high powered offense just got skunked by lowly Jacksonville and we just got the ***** kicked out of us by the Colts.   We've been highly penalized, including stupid pre- and post- snap penalties.

 

We've also had highs, of course. 

 

In contrast, the Patriots have won 7 of their last 8 and the loss went to overtime. 

 

Now the fine print may paint a less dominant picture.  I'd like to have played the Titans without Henry, Brown, and Jones or the Browns without Chubb or Hunt and Mayfield going out injured. 

 

But the fact remains, they've won 6 in a row and 7 of their last 8, while we've split our last 6 games including an inexplicable loss to Jacksonville and very bad losses to the Titans and Colts. 

 

Its a "you are what your record says you are" thing.

Sorry the Bills on paper are a much better team.  They lose & it then brings to question coaching and players motivation.  The Bills should win by 10+.

[vincec]

41 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again why is a team that went 7-9 last year, starting a rookie QB, now the equals or better than the team that was 13-3 in 2020 and even 2 weeks ago the SB betting favourite?

 

Oh yea and at home too?

I’m not sure I understand your question. The Patriots are being taken seriously because they have a better record and are on a 6 game winning streak. Seems pretty straight forward.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Sorry the Bills on paper are a much better team.  They lose & it then brings to question coaching and players motivation.  The Bills should win by 10+.

 

I completely agree with you that the Bills on paper are a better team.

 

But the old saw about "Football is not played on paper, it's played on grass or turf on Sunday" comes into play.  The fact is, the Pats have been playing very consistently while we've been up-and-down.

 

11 minutes ago, george c said:

If Brown and if Star are just recovering from Covid, they will both be useless. 

Been there, done that. 

 

Maybe, maybe not - it just depends upon how serious their illness was.  You're for sure correct that we can't just assume they'll walk in the facility and pick up where they left off. 

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I completely agree with you that the Bills on paper are a better team.

 

But the old saw about "Football is not played on paper, it's played on grass or turf on Sunday" comes into play.  The fact is, the Pats have been playing very consistently while we've been up-and-down.

And thus if the Bills lose, the teams character should be questioned and heads should roll.

[PatsFanNH]

29 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

First you can't take Allen out of the equation. Last I checked, his rushes still  count. I don't hear anyone saying if you take Lamar Jackson out of the equation, the Ravens would be last in the league in rushing at 70 YPG. Allen, like Jackson is a rushing weapon. It is part of the offensive identity and needs to be accounted for by a defense.

 

Second, the Bills this year and last year have not been a team concerned with how much they run, as opposed to being able to run when they need to. You want to say when the Bills have more than 15 rushes, without Allen, they win. The truth is, almost all of the Bills' wins have been double digit wins and included sizeable leads during the game.  While they may have more rushes in their wins, most of those rushes were after the Bills had a decent lead - not the reason for the lead.

 

The difference between last year and this year is this: Their best starting linemen in both pass and run blocking have played together a grand total of 4 out of 11 games this year. Without them, they have struggled to run the ball when they needed to - and they have also struggled in pass protection as well. When their best lineman have played together, they are averging almost 39 PPG, 470 YPG, 28 rushes PG, and 135 rushing YPG. I am hoping they will be playing together for the rest of the year, starting next Monday night. If they are, I don't have any concerns with them being able to run the ball when they need to.

 

You are a Pats fan. You don't understand the intracacies of our team better than we do.

 

And I don't pretend to know everything about your team. Quite honestly, I don't care enough to look beyond the fact they are 8-4 and playing good football. When they play, we'll know which team is better on that day. That is typically how it works. 

 

My point was simple. When your RB actually touch the ball 20 times a game your team appears to win, when they don’t based off the last 4 games your team does not win.  
 

I hate QB designed runs, unless you have Jackson who isn’t really a good throwing QB.. running should always be the last resort because it opens them up to injury and harder hits. Yes that MY OPINION.. 

 

 

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

45 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Because that's how they're playing and how we're playing, was this a trick question?

 

Last year was then.  This is now.  Records don't carry over.

 

NE had a number of veterans who opted out last season but returned this season.  They spent big in FA, including adding a premier pass rusher in Judon, two of the top TE in FA in Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith, and a bunch of other re-signings or signings.  They improved at many positions since last season.

 

The Bills pretty much chose to "run it back" talent-wise.  We added a WR and an RB (who has mostly been on the bench) and in some ways, drafted for the future with high-ceiling guys regarded as raw, and doubling-down at the same positions (two DE, two OTs).  Our play has been inconsistent this season.  Our high powered offense just got skunked by lowly Jacksonville and we just got the ***** kicked out of us by the Colts.   We've been highly penalized, including stupid pre- and post- snap penalties.

 

We've also had highs, of course. 

 

In contrast, the Patriots have won 7 of their last 8 and the loss went to overtime. 

 

Now the fine print may paint a less dominant picture.  I'd like to have played the Titans without Henry, Brown, and Jones or the Browns without Chubb or Hunt and Mayfield going out injured. 

 

But the fact remains, they've won 6 in a row and 7 of their last 8, while we've split our last 6 games including an inexplicable loss to Jacksonville and very bad losses to the Titans and Colts. 

 

Its a "you are what your record says you are" thing.

Very well said. Add in 2 of the losses the Pats have came against SB Favorites and they both came down to the very last minute or OT and the Pats to the talking heads look amazing. 
 

Oh and we wish we had faced NO as toothless as you guys just faced them.. I say NO = Cleveland. (Except you didn’t even get their starting Qb lol) 

 

question for you if you guys had faced TN back then as weak as we did, do you think there is a chance the Bills don’t show up like they did in that game. In other words play as if they should just win because they shows up? (That’s not an insult I’ve seen a lot good teams do it threw the years) 

[Scott7975]

9 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

My point was simple. When your RB actually touch the ball 20 times a game your team appears to win, when they don’t based off the last 4 games your team does not win.  
 

I hate QB designed runs, unless you have Jackson who isn’t really a good throwing QB.. running should always be the last resort because it opens them up to injury and harder hits. Yes that MY OPINION.. 

 

 

 

 

 

Allen running is part of his game.  He isn't Lamar, no one is at running but he is dynamic at it and it has not only gotten the Bills a lot of yards and TDs... it has won the Bills some games too.  It has to be accounted for.