Starting December neck and neck with NE

[BillsFan619]

On 11/30/2021 at 9:45 PM, without a drought said:

**** New England.

 

I might hate this version more than the Brady led Pats.

Really. Even with all the domination the Brady led Pats had?

 

Would love to hear your thoughts on why.

[BillsFan619]

On 11/30/2021 at 9:45 PM, without a drought said:

**** New England.

 

I might hate this version more than the Brady led Pats.

@without a drought, brings up a very interesting thought and discussion.

 

Does anyone else feel the same way where they possibly don’t like this Pats team over the Brady lead Pats teams?
 

Would love to hear anyone’s thoughts.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 hours ago, BillsFan619 said:

@without a drought, brings up a very interesting thought and discussion.

 

Does anyone else feel the same way where they possibly don’t like this Pats team over the Brady lead Pats teams?
 

Would love to hear anyone’s thoughts.

I think some of us are just salty we didn’t get a long run of the pats being bad haha I hated the Brady led pats much more especially considering they were stealing our defensive signals for years 😂

[BillsFan619]

6 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I think some of us are just salty we didn’t get a long run of the pats being bad haha I hated the Brady led pats much more especially considering they were stealing our defensive signals for years 😂

Thanks for sharing, Generic.

 

I get it. It was nice to see them have such a down year last year. It was especially nice to destroy them in their house and see BB throw the phone. As I shared in the OP, that was an instant classic.

 

The cool thing is, everything is still right in front of us. We can take the division and be directly responsible for keeping it from them. Even though it would've been great for them to have another down year, we have a great opportunity on Monday night. Go get it, Buffalo!

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

14 hours ago, BillsFan619 said:

Thanks for sharing, Generic.

 

I get it. It was nice to see them have such a down year last year. It was especially nice to destroy them in their house and see BB throw the phone. As I shared in the OP, that was an instant classic.

 

The cool thing is, everything is still right in front of us. We can take the division and be directly responsible for keeping it from them. Even though it would've been great for them to have another down year, we have a great opportunity on Monday night. Go get it, Buffalo!

Not sure how many baseball fans are out there and what team y'all prefer but the few years where the yankees were good and the red sox were bad or vice versa were much less fun overall looking back on it...i think the same thing kind of applies here.  Yea its gonna be more tense during the regular season but thats the exciting part of being a sports fan.  Also if we cant at least split with a team like the pats i doubt were a serious playoff contender anyway regardless of if we make it there.  A split would be a win this year for us...unless we lose one to the jets somehow lol

[Success]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Not sure how many baseball fans are out there and what team y'all prefer but the few years where the yankees were good and the red sox were bad or vice versa were much less fun overall looking back on it...i think the same thing kind of applies here.  Yea its gonna be more tense during the regular season but thats the exciting part of being a sports fan.  Also if we cant at least split with a team like the pats i doubt were a serious playoff contender anyway regardless of if we make it there.  A split would be a win this year for us...unless we lose one to the jets somehow lol

 

2 big "agrees" with you in a row, Generic!  I love the Yankees, and it's better for my anxiety when they're good & the Red Sox aren't - but it's just more fun when both are good.  Those are the games & seasons that you really remember (hopefully well, but not always).

 

If I'm a Patriots fan, the one thing I probably lament is that it was so easy in the division for 20 years. I'm sure it was fun, but I'll take our division reign in the '90's where we had real battles w/ the other teams.

 

And also on the split. That's what I'm hoping for. In some ways, I think it would be better than sweeping if we were to meet them in the playoffs - I can't see BB losing to ANY team 3x in a row in a season, or 5x in a row in general.

 

[BillsFan619]

5 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Not sure how many baseball fans are out there and what team y'all prefer but the few years where the yankees were good and the red sox were bad or vice versa were much less fun overall looking back on it...i think the same thing kind of applies here.  Yea its gonna be more tense during the regular season but thats the exciting part of being a sports fan.  Also if we cant at least split with a team like the pats i doubt were a serious playoff contender anyway regardless of if we make it there.  A split would be a win this year for us...unless we lose one to the jets somehow lol

Are you admitting that you're one of the salty ones or were you just sharing the general consensus that you observe? 🤣

 

Yeah, I agree. Last year spoiled some. It tainted their view of playoff push expectations. Like I said in my op, it's not typical to run away with the division every time, it's typically a dog fight until the final couple weeks or even the final week. Now that we're competitive, it's something fans need to get use to.

 

I think it also spoiled their expectations of JA as well. He's struggled some but he's still been great. I think this year could actually be more of an indicator of his long term success than last year. He's been figured out some, thus part of the struggle. But, he's pushing through it and still having a good year. That's how QBs become great and stick around.

 

PS- I'll also add that I believe the big contract has tainted some as well. People's expectations just get so high (I get why, the contract is high). Even McD said so in his presser.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

18 minutes ago, Success said:

 

2 big "agrees" with you in a row, Generic!  I love the Yankees, and it's better for my anxiety when they're good & the Red Sox aren't - but it's just more fun when both are good.  Those are the games & seasons that you really remember (hopefully well, but not always).

 

If I'm a Patriots fan, the one thing I probably lament is that it was so easy in the division for 20 years. I'm sure it was fun, but I'll take our division reign in the '90's where we had real battles w/ the other teams.

 

And also on the split. That's what I'm hoping for. In some ways, I think it would be better than sweeping if we were to meet them in the playoffs - I can't see BB losing to ANY team 3x in a row in a season, or 5x in a row in general.

 

yea i think weve got a bit of the hot hand fallacy going on right now regarding the patriots....each week youre playing a new team on a new day with different positional matchups so the fact theyre on a bit of a winning streak isnt as relevant as its being made out to be....we won like 9 or 10 in a row before getting spanked by the chiefs in the afc championship so we know that better than anyone lol  it comes down to the matchups on the field and we are in a completely different situation this week than we were against the colts.  and looking at it and a higher level...i think saying our defenses are about even is fair to say.  They have some exploitable weaknesses in the secondary and we like to pass...we have potentially exploitable weaknesses up front and they like to run.  and saying our offense is better is a bit of a no brainer.  and we are at home...this really is a game we should win more than half the time.  but weve got a bunch of analysts trying to make the sexy pick that could be outsmarting themselves lol  if we had the same lineup as the colts game we'd be behind on offense and defense it was really not a shock we lost that one.  That is not the game you want to be missing your run stuffing DT and starting mlb.

[PatsFanNH]

21 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I think some of us are just salty we didn’t get a long run of the pats being bad haha I hated the Brady led pats much more especially considering they were stealing our defensive signals for years 😂

😂 you know that was always going on? Teams were stealing signals for years it’s where they stole it that got them in trouble..  mind you why the NFL didn’t give the D a microphone to call plays in like the O years ago was just silly. 

[BillsFan619]

@Success

@Generic_Bills_Fan

 

In thinking about it more, here's another way I think it tainted expectations. Hopefully I can explain this right.

 

"Oh no, we're not running away with the division like we did last year. We must not be as good." Granted, we've struggled in a couple games we weren't expecting, but, we're still a really good team and "not running away with the division" doesn't necessarily mean we're slipping. It means there's competition.

 

"Oh no, there's a type of defense that JA struggles with. He must be regressing." First of all, Brady even has a type of defense he struggles with. Second, like I said above, he's pushing through it and that's a great indicator of his long term success.

 

As some say, success typically isn't linear. Hopefully my thoughts made sense. Go Bills!

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

15 minutes ago, BillsFan619 said:

Are you admitting that you're one of the salty ones or were you just sharing the general consensus that you observe? 🤣

 

Yeah, I agree. Last year spoiled some. It tainted their view of playoff push expectations. Like I said in my op, it's not typical to run away with the division every time, it's typically a dog fight until the final couple weeks or even the final week. Now that we're competitive, it's something fans need to get use to.

 

I think it also spoiled their expectations of JA as well. He's struggled some but he's still been great. I think this year could actually be more of an indicator of his long term success than last year. He's been figured out some, thus part of the struggle. But, he's pushing through it and still having a good year. That's how QBs become great and stick around.

 

PS- I'll also add that I believe the big contract has tainted some as well. People's expectations just get so high (I get why, the contract is high). Even McD said so in his presser.

haha idk that is a great question...i think im more on the disliking brady train than the belichick train ive noticed this year.  Belichick had a bit of an underdog story going on this season as people falsely concluded he couldnt get it done without brady.  the pats being competitive now doesnt upset me a whole lot but thats easy for me to say before this season is over haha if they start winning the division every year im sure i will change my mind.  

 

totally on board with the josh allen analysis...he certainly has areas to improve but i think hes been the best hes ever been this year.  In similar games last season where our offensive line struggled against a 4 man rush he looked terrible...theres just been many more of these games and he has actually looked quite good MOST of the time.  He did sort of blow that jags game though trying to do too much...couple less turnovers and we pull that one out 12-9 probably.  the dude is making nearly impossible freak plays look absolutely routine...i dont know how you can defend this team if the offensive line plays decent.

[Success]

7 minutes ago, BillsFan619 said:

@Success

@Generic_Bills_Fan

 

In thinking about it more, here's another way I think it tainted expectations. Hopefully I can explain this right.

 

"Oh no, we're not running away with the division like we did last year. We must not be as good." Granted, we've struggled in a couple games we weren't expecting, but, we're still a really good team and "not running away with the division" doesn't necessarily mean we're slipping. It means there's competition.

 

"Oh no, there's a type of defense that JA struggles with. He must be regressing." First of all, Brady even has a type of defense he struggles with. Second, like I said above, he's pushing through it and that's a great indicator of his long term success.

 

As some say, success typically isn't linear. Hopefully my thoughts made sense. Go Bills!

 

That makes total sense, and to take that last point one step further, I've seen a TON of Pats fans and pundits take the linear approach w/ Mac Jones.  As in, "He's playing better than Brady was as a rookie. Therefore, his next step will be a Lombardi, followed by league MVP, followed by 5 more Lombardi's and the HOF."

 

Mac was projected by scouts to be the most pro ready, but to have the lowest ceiling.  So far, they were spot on w/ the 1st part.  There is no reason to believe that he'll take even the next potential step and have some sort of linear progression. This might be as good as he gets. Or, he might actually get worse.

 

[BillsFan619]

39 minutes ago, Success said:

 

That makes total sense, and to take that last point one step further, I've seen a TON of Pats fans and pundits take the linear approach w/ Mac Jones.  As in, "He's playing better than Brady was as a rookie. Therefore, his next step will be a Lombardi, followed by league MVP, followed by 5 more Lombardi's and the HOF."

 

Mac was projected by scouts to be the most pro ready, but to have the lowest ceiling.  So far, they were spot on w/ the 1st part.  There is no reason to believe that he'll take even the next potential step and have some sort of linear progression. This might be as good as he gets. Or, he might actually get worse.

 

You nailed it, bro!

 

Struggle doesn't always mean regression. And, success doesn't always mean ascension will happen. What matters is, will you push through? Will you push the struggle? Or, if you're having some success, will you push through to the next level?

 

What's your personal take on Mac Jones? Do you think he'll ascend or is this as good as it gets for him?

Edited December 3, 2021 by BillsFan619

[What a Tuel]

On 12/2/2021 at 11:00 AM, BillsFan619 said:

Really. Even with all the domination the Brady led Pats had?

 

Would love to hear your thoughts on why.

 

Belichick. And the national media's idea that they can just pick up another dynasty, just like that. Eff the cheaters.

[Success]

10 minutes ago, BillsFan619 said:

You nailed it, bro!

 

Struggle doesn't always mean regression. And, success doesn't always mean ascension will happen. What matters is, will you push through? Will you push the struggle? Or, if you're having some success, will you push through to the next level?

 

What's your take on Mac Jones? Do you think he'll ascend or is this as good as it gets for him?

 

I go back & forth on that. The part of me that has PTSD about the Pats fears the worst - he HAS shown flashes of being excellent.

 

But, if I'm objective, he hasn't shown anything yet.  I kind of chuckle when people say he's already proven he's the best from that QB class.  They ask him to do so little, while most of the other guys in that class have to practically carry their teams, who are poorly constructed and generally not well-coached.

 

He screams game manager right now.  He's not impressive at all in the red zone, and he really winds up when he has to throw any distance.  I think there is zero chance he lives up to the hype - but w/ Belichick & McDaniels at the helm, I won't take him lightly. They just know how to use his strengths & avoid his weaknesses.

 

[BillsFan619]

13 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I go back & forth on that. The part of me that has PTSD about the Pats fears the worst - he HAS shown flashes of being excellent.

 

But, if I'm objective, he hasn't shown anything yet.  I kind of chuckle when people say he's already proven he's the best from that QB class.  They ask him to do so little, while most of the other guys in that class have to practically carry their teams, who are poorly constructed and generally not well-coached.

 

He screams game manager right now.  He's not impressive at all in the red zone, and he really winds up when he has to throw any distance.  I think there is zero chance he lives up to the hype - but w/ Belichick & McDaniels at the helm, I won't take him lightly. They just know how to use his strengths & avoid his weaknesses.

 

Good thoughts, Success.

 

Even though he's had a good first year, I'm not overly impressed like some. While we could lose on Monday, I'm not thinking it will be because of Mac Jones. He may not lose you games but he doesn't seem like a QB that can outright win you games. I guess that's one of the main characteristics of a game manager though (like you called him). Good enough not to be the reason to lose but not great enough to win you the game if needed.

 

I believe that could be the difference on Monday since our defenses are similar. The Pats don't have the QB that can win you games (at least not yet). We do.

[PatsFanNH]

5 hours ago, BillsFan619 said:

@Success

@Generic_Bills_Fan

 

In thinking about it more, here's another way I think it tainted expectations. Hopefully I can explain this right.

 

"Oh no, we're not running away with the division like we did last year. We must not be as good." Granted, we've struggled in a couple games we weren't expecting, but, we're still a really good team and "not running away with the division" doesn't necessarily mean we're slipping. It means there's competition.

 

"Oh no, there's a type of defense that JA struggles with. He must be regressing." First of all, Brady even has a type of defense he struggles with. Second, like I said above, he's pushing through it and that's a great indicator of his long term success.

 

As some say, success typically isn't linear. Hopefully my thoughts made sense. Go Bills!

The difference is unlike last year the talking heads have a team they want talk about in NE.  The Phins were boring and well self sabotaging by putting Tua in instead of riding Fitz.. this year they can have “return of the evil empire” or “The Dark Lord strikes back” so much more fun and brings viewers in… The Bills are still a damn good team and should win the division. They have it right there for them to take.

3 hours ago, BillsFan619 said:

Good thoughts, Success.

 

Even though he's had a good first year, I'm not overly impressed like some. While we could lose on Monday, I'm not thinking it will be because of Mac Jones. He may not lose you games but he doesn't seem like a QB that can outright win you games. I guess that's one of the main characteristics of a game manager though (like you called him). Good enough not to be the reason to lose but not great enough to win you the game if needed.

 

I believe that could be the difference on Monday since our defenses are similar. The Pats don't have the QB that can win you games (at least not yet). We do.

Jones is a rookie, playing as well as you can expect for a rookie. Is he a game manager? Maybe but isn’t that what you want your rookie QB to be?  I don’t know what Jones will be 3 or 4 years from now but right now he is better than I thought he be. 
 

The difference on Monday night will be who stops the run better IMO. Both teams looked AWFUL against the run. 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

The difference is unlike last year the talking heads have a team they want talk about in NE.  The Phins were boring and well self sabotaging by putting Tua in instead of riding Fitz.. this year they can have “return of the evil empire” or “The Dark Lord strikes back” so much more fun and brings viewers in… The Bills are still a damn good team and should win the division. They have it right there for them to take.

Jones is a rookie, playing as well as you can expect for a rookie. Is he a game manager? Maybe but isn’t that what you want your rookie QB to be?  I don’t know what Jones will be 3 or 4 years from now but right now he is better than I thought he be. 
 

The difference on Monday night will be who stops the run better IMO. Both teams looked AWFUL against the run. 

 

The Bill's might struggle. Almost shut down Henry his big td run helped out big time in yards. The Bill's didn't have Edmunds (best tackler on Bills), star (run defender), Harrison Phillips played injuried Colts game, Vernon Butler is awful.  Could be part of scheme as well. But anyways it is too soon to say awful vs run. They'll likely get better.  

 

All teams find weakness. When team's find Jones can he overcome? Like teams did to Mahomes and Allen this year. Both are doing much better.  I like Mac think he is having a great rookie year. Would be good for him if he turns well for you guys.  Too early to say he is a (great) QB yet.

[BillsFan619]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

The difference is unlike last year the talking heads have a team they want talk about in NE.  The Phins were boring and well self sabotaging by putting Tua in instead of riding Fitz.. this year they can have “return of the evil empire” or “The Dark Lord strikes back” so much more fun and brings viewers in… The Bills are still a damn good team and should win the division. They have it right there for them to take.

Jones is a rookie, playing as well as you can expect for a rookie. Is he a game manager? Maybe but isn’t that what you want your rookie QB to be?  I don’t know what Jones will be 3 or 4 years from now but right now he is better than I thought he be. 
 

The difference on Monday night will be who stops the run better IMO. Both teams looked AWFUL against the run. 

Thanks for sharing. You have good and balanced thoughts.

 

Buffalo is a really good football team that has struggled in a couple games you wouldn’t have expected them to. That said, through all that struggle even with the patriots doing better than expected, the Bills still have it all in front of them.

 

And yes, I agree with you, all you could have expected out of a rookie Mac Jones this year was to be a game manager. Yes, nobody knows what he’ll be in 3 to 4 years, but to @Success’s point, he really does seem like he’s at his ceiling or close to it. Again, not making a prediction by any means, but that’s how it seems right now.

 

Mac Jones is playing better than JA did his first year but there was just something you saw in JA where you realized that if it clicked for him, he could be so much better. I just don’t necessarily sense that in Mac Jones right now.

Edited December 4, 2021 by BillsFan619

[PatsFanNH]

33 minutes ago, BillsFan619 said:

Thanks for sharing. You have good and balanced thoughts.

 

Buffalo is a really good football team that has struggled in a couple games you wouldn’t have expected them to. That said, through all that struggle even with the patriots doing better than expected, the Bills still have it all in front of them.

 

And yes, I agree with you, all you could have expected out of a rookie Mac Jones this year was to be a game manager. Yes, nobody knows what he’ll be in 3 to 4 years, but to @Success’s point, he really does seem like he’s at his ceiling or close to it. Again, not making a prediction by any means, but that’s how it seems right now.

 

Mac Jones is playing better than JA did his first year but there was just something you saw in JA where you realized that if it clicked for him, he could be so much better. I just don’t necessarily sense that in Mac Jones right now.

I doubt you watch many Pats games. What makes me THINK he has a much higher ceiling is simply how he looks after a mistake. He doesn’t dwell on it and he moves forward and continues to fight. The best example I have of this was when he threw the pick 6 against Dallas (Diggs) the very next play he threw right at Diggs again for a hugs TD pass to get the Pats the lead back.. that’s a trait you can’t teach being able move on from a mistake.. He also seems to be reading defenses better every week, heck he was better at it by week 3 than Cam was all last year. (He literally called out Cleveland when he saw them line up said “You got us this time”)
 

Now will he ever be a huge game breaker with his feet? No but I see his football smarts and the ability to read the D better and get the right play called at the line. But again only time will tell.