EDIT Now: Whatever Pats or Bills topics you wanna discuss Was: Bills (-3.5) vs. Patriots on MNF

[Hapless Bills Fan]

29 minutes ago, Mango said:

The Pats put up points in 50% of drives. Their average drive time is something like 2:55 which is in the top 5. 

 

So what % of Bills drives end in points?  I make it 31%-ish but that's me doing math.

 

 

 

[Mango]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So what % of Bills drives end in points?  I make it 31%-ish but that's me doing math.

 

 

 

I am out of pocket. But I believe they are at 40 or 41%. They finished last season at 1 or 2 in the league with 44%. 50 is a really impressive number. But there is a lot of football left. 
 

Defense sets them up nicely. They win the field position battle. Average drive start is the 37 I think. Opponents is 25. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

If they know Jones can't pass, stack the box with Star back and it shouldn't be that difficult to stop them. If there is snow, it hurts both teams evenly. Josh has the advantage in the wind though.

I hear you. Just wondering where the " he can't pass" proproganda comes from. I've seen 3 of their games and he looks really good. He's was a first round pick (15th pick) so you can reasonable conclude he can pass. Sure he has limitations but he looks to be an excellent QB in the Patriots offensive system. It's an early sample size. 

56 minutes ago, Mango said:

The Pats put up points in 50% of drives. Their average drive time is something like 2:55 which is in the top 5. 
 

Sure the Pats have gotten lucky woth other teams injuries. The haven’t been explosive but they’re remarkably efficient. 
 

I don’t mean this as a TB12/MJ10 comparison at all, but the way these Pats play the game reminds me a lot of the early aughts before Brady was Brady. 
 

NE has a top 5 defense in nearly every metric. I think the key is getting out ahead by a couple of scores. But getting a 2 score lead is pretty difficult on that defense. 

Very well said Mango.

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

LOL

1) when Belichick praises a player, it typically means he feels he's spotted a flaw

2) I read this and it reminds me of the joke about how it's impossible it is to praise someone in Yiddish.  It comes across as implying that he started at a very low level and Belichick didn't think much of his chances to get better.

Yup.  Reminds me of his praise of Herbert.

 

Herbert in that game:  229 yards, 2 TD's, 2 INT's, 51.9% completion percentage, 66.7 passing rating.

 

If Josh somehow replicates or comes close to his performance last year @Pats on MNF against a depleted defense this game he should silence the few doubters still left out there.  

[atlbillsfan1975]

6 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Your personal attacks are unwelcome. Frankly, your post is borderline incomprehensible. I do criticize the Bills organization, coaches, and players. I realize it's not popular here. Thus, the personal attacks like yours aren't uncommon. I stand by my criticisms and they do have merit and validity. Obviously, it's my opinion and I'm not always right. However, this is a place to voice opinions and hopefully get solid feedback without personal attacks. 

 

How can you talk about the media but disregard the media's feedback this year? Really? Lol

 

Lastly, I do give credit and props to the Bills when it's deserved. For example, I've criticized and praised Allen many times. 

 

I'll be the bigger man and Bills fan and take the high road. Hopefully, I'm here to stay and give my feedback. Many on here have appropriately and professionally given me and others great feedback here. I look forward to reading and learning from such knowledgeable bills fans. 

Are you a Cam fan as well?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I actually think there might be some honesty in Belichick's comments here.  For one, Allen's improvement has been remarkable and I'm sure Belichick sees it.  And if you go back to last years draft there's a reason Belichick and the Pats used a 1st round pick to select a QB - and that reason is Josh Allen.

 

There's a reason the Pats used a 1st round pick to select a QB, and that reason is wearing a Tampa Bay uniform.  Cam Newton was not the answer, and neither was Jared Stidham.  Once Brady left, the need was there.

 

But, I just went looking for the interview, and I actually think he is sincere.  He has the tone of voice he gets when he's seriously talking football, and not the flat tone of voice he gets when he's condescending or saying one thing while thinking another.

 

Of course, The Evil One still could be seeing a dozen weaknesses he thinks he can exploit.  It's sort of like McDermott saying before the Chargers game that Justin Herbert wasn't your typical rookie and you couldn't make him "see ghosts" as you can some other QB - right before we sacked him 3 times, picked him, forced a fumble twice etc.

[stevewin]

6 hours ago, eball said:

I've got one thing to say to all of our "friends" visiting from Cheatersville this week.  Enjoy your stay, and don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya on Monday night around 11:30.

I go through threads this week and my eyes/mind are now trained on virtual ignore.  I see a cheater fan post, or response to one, and I just go right past.

[Bubba Gump]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I hear you. Just wondering where the " he can't pass" proproganda comes from. I've seen 3 of their games and he looks really good. He's was a first round pick (15th pick) so you can reasonable conclude he can pass. 

 

Of course he can pass, but his high completion % comes from short passes. He is very limited when it comes to arm strength and throwing the ball downfield. That is something you can't teach. I don't see him as a QB that could ever take a team to the SB. He is too limited. Can't move around and can't throw the ball downfield. Not a good combo for long term success. 

[newcam2012]

49 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

Of course he can pass, but his high completion % comes from short passes. He is very limited when it comes to arm strength and throwing the ball downfield. That is something you can't teach. I don't see him as a QB that could ever take a team to the SB. He is too limited. Can't move around and can't throw the ball downfield. Not a good combo for long term success. 

Probably true long term but it's still unknown. I have to ask why is he being successful now. There is enough film to know what the Pats are doing. Yet, he is making the right reads, not turning over the ball, and has enough arm strength to keep the defenses somewhat honest. Couple that with a good Oline and running game. That's a decent recipe to win. Do the Bills have such a recipe? Or did they just order a master chef and a sous? You can't underestimate the importance of the front line staff. 

2 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Are you a Cam fan as well?

As is Cam Newton? I never really was a huge fan of his. He was always too wildly inconsistent throwing the ball. Also, I felt like he was a cry baby when he lost. He never felt like a leader to me. (Allen on the other is a bonifide leader of the Bills.) His ability to run was always his best asset. Imho, you pay QBs to primarily pass. The game has changed and the mobility of Qbs is definitely important as well. 

[Bubba Gump]

14 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Probably true long term but it's still unknown. I have to ask why is he being successful now. There is enough film to know what the Pats are doing. Yet, he is making the right reads, not turning over the ball, and has enough arm strength to keep the defenses somewhat honest. Couple that with a good Oline and running game. That's a decent recipe to win. Do the Bills have such a recipe? Or did they just order a master chef and a sous? You can't underestimate the importance of the front line staff. 

 

I just see Jones as a one trick pony. He can't run, he can't throw deep. He can dink and dunk and hand the ball off. So maybe a two trick pony, lol. Josh Allen was coachable with his accuracy and has proven it. Mac Jones isn't coachable to all of a sudden throw the ball deep, his arm is too weak. He's also a rookie so teams aren't sure what to expect. He will be figured out real quick and will be the next Trent Edwards. His floor is a lot bigger than his ceiling. In fact, he may have been drafted at his ceiling. That's just my opinion, but we've seen it before. Weak armed QBs don't last long.

[newcam2012]

16 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

I just see Jones as a one trick pony. He can't run, he can't throw deep. He can dink and dunk and hand the ball off. So maybe a two trick pony, lol. Josh Allen was coachable with his accuracy and has proven it. Mac Jones isn't coachable to all of a sudden throw the ball deep, his arm is too weak. He's also a rookie so teams aren't sure what to expect. He will be figured out real quick and will be the next Trent Edwards. His floor is a lot bigger than his ceiling. In fact, he may have been drafted at his ceiling. That's just my opinion, but we've seen it before. Weak armed QBs don't last long.

True but that's what they said about Breeze. I believe the most important tool for a QB accuracy. Of course arm strength is very important as well. I guess the real questiob is his arm strong enough to be an NFL QB. Thus far the answer is a resounding yes. The game is Monday so im just focused on this game. He appears to be a QB who knows how to win, doesn't try to do too much, protects the ball, intelligent, accurate, good vision, and poised. Hope that changes on Monday. I'm not selling the kid short. I feel like I know what I'm gonna get come game day. Nothing flashy but effective and steady. With Allen it's more questionable. More like feast or famine. No doubt he has more talent but the other Bills issues severely hamper Allen's greatness. I just hope Josh has his cape on...

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

True but that's what they said about Breeze. I believe the most important tool for a QB accuracy. Of course arm strength is very important as well. I guess the real questiob is his arm strong enough to be an NFL QB. Thus far the answer is a resounding yes. The game is Monday so im just focused on this game. He appears to be a QB who knows how to win, doesn't try to do too much, protects the ball, intelligent, accurate, good vision, and poised. Hope that changes on Monday. I'm not selling the kid short. I feel like I know what I'm gonna get come game day. Nothing flashy but effective and steady. With Allen it's more questionable. More like feast or famine. No doubt he has more talent but the other Bills issues severely hamper Allen's greatness. I just hope Josh has his cape on...

Reading a defense is the number 1 tool for a qb…that’s how a 400 year old Phil rivers almost beat us in that playoff game lol that’s why guys like Trent edwards can have a good start to their career and then get completely shut down. Mac having a couple good games early in his career really isn’t proof of anything yet.   You say he doesn’t try to do too much but a team will force him to have to do what you call too much…whether it’s us on Monday night or someone in the playoffs. We don’t really know how that will go but we’ve seen guys like baker mayfield and tannehill struggle mightily when they don’t have the running game to lean on.

 I would also argue this is the first game that josh probably won’t need his cape with Spencer brown and Feliciano returning. it’s not like we haven’t seen a tough front 7 this season and we’ve seen quite a few formidable ones with multiple offensive line injuries.  Pats aren’t exactly strong in the secondary either so there’s quite a few exploitable matchups in the passing game.  The doom around here is kind of fascinating…maybe we lose to the patriots who knows but we are objectively fielding a much more competitive team on Monday than we’ve had most of the season even without tre.  I think the pats on the other hand have been playing very close to their ceiling and they look good because they’re blowing out bad teams.  They really don’t have a statement win to me they’ve just been smart with the football and avoided any unexpected losses. Titans minus Henry, Julio jones, and aj brown and the browns missing hunt,Chubb, some olinemen, and baker playing with a torn labrum are nowhere remotely  close to good teams I’d say… those are kind of in the same ballpark as our win over New Orleans.  Maybe if we didn’t go down to kc and spank the chiefs the last time we were this healthy I’d be a little more nervous but I think the pressure is on the pats/Mac jones playing a huge game in primetime here 

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, the Bills had indeed scored an average of >40 points per game the previous 3 games (43,40,38); 35 points the week before that.  So....

 

And no, teams don't score TDs on every drive.  But the best teams have red-zone TD % of 70% or up.  The Bills are currently tied for 11th at 62%.  The worst team in the league is currently 43%.

 

So when the Bills came away with 2 TDs on 5 red-zone trips, they were below the league worst and below their own average performance (40% vs 60%).

 

I'd call that being slowed, You do You though.

 

 

LOL

1) when Belichick praises a player, it typically means he feels he's spotted a flaw

2) I read this and it reminds me of the joke about how it's impossible it is to praise someone in Yiddish.  It comes across as implying that he started at a very low level and Belichick didn't think much of his chances to get better.

 

Yeah, we just aren't going to agree on this.  Its ok though.  I understand your points.  I just cant bring myself to say they were slowed down after scoring 31 points.  We weren't playing the Jets.

 

Yes,  Bill likes to praise a lot of people.  Have we had a QB he didn't praise?

[YoloinOhio]

 

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yeah, we just aren't going to agree on this.  Its ok though.  I understand your points.  I just cant bring myself to say they were slowed down after scoring 31 points.  We weren't playing the Jets.

 

Yes,  Bill likes to praise a lot of people.  Have we had a QB he didn't praise?

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/bill-belichick-apparently-doesnt-buy-josh-allen-craze?amp

[finn]

6 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

Of course he can pass, but his high completion % comes from short passes. He is very limited when it comes to arm strength and throwing the ball downfield. That is something you can't teach. I don't see him as a QB that could ever take a team to the SB. He is too limited. Can't move around and can't throw the ball downfield. Not a good combo for long term success. 

Just a quibble: Arm strength is more important in out patterns or when trying to zip a ball into a fleeting window, like Allen hitting Kumerow in that  seam pattern last year. The velocity on that ball was incredible. I don't see Jones throwing that ball, even thought he's "the best quarterback in the AFC," according to some. To put it plainly, Allen can do everything Jones can do, but Jones cannot do anything near everything Allen can do (diagnose, evade pressure, run, throw in tight windows). Give Allen Jones' O-line, and you'd see startling numbers. 

[Nihilarian]

This is an early playoff game on MNF...the stage doesn't get much bigger to have the entire NFL world watching.

 

Just glad the Bills are getting some key players back in the lineup. 

[Greg S]

9 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Yeah, color me baffled. I've never seen the gridiron database be wrong before. This is a huge change.

Now this begs the question... is it possible the social media team got it wrong?

 

It could be just an error by the gridiron database. They had the Bills wearing the throwbacks for this game since early in the season. I would trust the Bills website and the Bills will wear blue over white. At the end of the day just win the game. Blue jersey, white jersey who cares just win.

[Greg S]

Here is an interesting stat. If the Bills win Monday then Josh Allen becomes the first QB to beat Belichick in 3 straight games since Eli Manning did it

 

2/3/08 - 17-14 win Super Bowl

11/6/11 - 24-20 win

2/5/12  - 21-17 Super Bowl