Lil Dirty - Benched (update - He’s back and better than ever)

[Buddo]

Wouldn't surprise me if part of the coaches 'issues' with McKenzie, are related to his decision making under the football. i.e. When to run and when not to.

 

The fumble against the Colts was a really bad one, because it took the options away from both the offense and defense, and ultimately gave the game to the Colts.

 

While I think he had to try and run that one out - it was from inside our 10 yard line - fumbling it with no outside intervention, is pretty much inexcusable.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, Buddo said:

Wouldn't surprise me if part of the coaches 'issues' with McKenzie, are related to his decision making under the football. i.e. When to run and when not to.

 

The fumble against the Colts was a really bad one, because it took the options away from both the offense and defense, and ultimately gave the game to the Colts.

 

While I think he had to try and run that one out - it was from inside our 10 yard line - fumbling it with no outside intervention, is pretty much inexcusable.

 

Pretty sure McDermott agrees with that last.

[Strethor]

The Colt's focused on Issiah's ball security on a major weakness during returns came up during HK, it's not surprising he is benched - he will be a resource for us later in our playoff run but he needs to get in the right mindset for improvement. 

[Apocalypse Nuts]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Pro-football-reference lists fumbles whether or not they are recovered.

Muffs are listed as muffs (but not necessarily fumbles) whether or not they are recovered

 

McKenzie has one fumble and one muff on the season.  If you believe he has more, show your work

 

I don't have a problem with McDermott benching lil' Dirty and giving Stevenson a shot.  I thought that fumble was egregious and we can't have that. 

 

On the other hand, I think McKenzie deserves his propers for his play as a returner this season, and he hasn't shown me "crappy hands".  Again, if that's what you see, I'm willing to be corrected, but Tell - which games, which quarter, etc etc.

 

 

You need to chill now bro before you piss me off.  Save your internet superiority attitude for someone else. I said what I said because I know I’m right from watching all the games with my own eyes and somehow I’m not alone in this opinion.  Gee imagine that.  I don’t have time to research PFF or whatever the fk else you spend your time on trying to disprove me.  Save your “show your work” crap for somebody else.  Man I hate know-it-alls like you.  
 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Apocalypse Nuts

[DrPJax]

7 hours ago, Strethor said:

The Colt's focused on Issiah's ball security on a major weakness during returns came up during HK, it's not surprising he is benched - he will be a resource for us later in our playoff run but he needs to get in the right mindset for improvement. 

After playing in the preseason , practice, and 9 prior games , I am pretty sure he is what he is , and always has been, indecisive fielding the ball. Not only has he fumbled once tha really put the game out of reach, he loses field position  by not catching punts well.  Tasker always said you lose 15-20:yards when you let the ball bounce by not fielding punts. I would be done with him as a returner esp since we commit penalties like blocking in the back about 50% of the time.  Risk way out weighs the slight chance of a significant return. Would still consider a role for him offensively if Beasley remains injured. 
 

 Btw, can we please get away from the crap of short kickoffs when Bass can boom the ball out all the time?  It seems to rarely work for us and places the other team beyond their 30 most times , significantly increasing the odds for fgs and td drives based on NFL stats. Another example of Mcd outthinking himself and not getting desired outcomes. How often do you see other NFL teams trying that unless there was a penalty allowing the kick off team to kick from 10-15 yards closer to where they want to short kick to ?  It’s like we never learned from the music city miracle , that squib kicking etc, just changes the risk as you don’t practice them often. Football is sometimes better played simply,,,,KISS ! 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, DrPJax said:

After playing in the preseason , practice, and 9 prior games , I am pretty sure he is what he is , and always has been, indecisive fielding the ball. Not only has he fumbled once tha really put the game out of reach, he loses field position  by not catching punts well.  Tasker always said you lose 15-20:yards when you let the ball bounce by not fielding punts. I would be done with him as a returner esp since we commit penalties like blocking in the back about 50% of the time.  Risk way out weighs the slight chance of a significant return. Would still consider a role for him offensively if Beasley remains injured. 
 

 Btw, can we please get away from the crap of short kickoffs when Bass can boom the ball out all the time?  It seems to rarely work for us and places the other team beyond their 30 most times , significantly increasing the odds for fgs and td drives based on NFL stats. Another example of Mcd outthinking himself and not getting desired outcomes. How often do you see other NFL teams trying that unless there was a penalty allowing the kick off team to kick from 10-15 yards closer to where they want to short kick to ?  It’s like we never learned from the music city miracle , that squib kicking etc, just changes the risk as you don’t practice them often. Football is sometimes better played simply,,,,KISS ! 

 

My perception is the opposite. I think we generally do stop teams before the 25. On 29 kick offs we have had returned this year we have given up an average of 19.9 yards. 

 

As for Isaiah. He has had a few questionable decisions on whether to field punts or not, and the fumble against Indy can't happen. But the bizarre play against Washington earlier on the year was absolutely not on him and he is 6th in kick off return average and 9th in punt return average too, so it is a mixed picture. I didn't think Stevenson was particularly impressive last week. I get wanting to take the long term view and go with him but McKenzie had done a pretty good job. 

[FLFan]

3 hours ago, Apocalypse Nuts said:

You and Hapless please go fk yourselves.  

Hopefully, your stay around here will be short.   

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Well, I NEVER!!!

 

Oh I am glad you quoted him I had missed him. That made me spit out my Monday morning cup of tea with laughter. 

[Beerball]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh I am glad you quoted him I had missed him. That made me spit out my Monday morning cup of tea with laughter. 

I know, can you imagine the equipment needed by @Gugny if he was to ***** himself? 

 

Magnifying glass, teeny tiny tweezers, a drop of lubricant. Am I missing anything?

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

My perception is the opposite. I think we generally do stop teams before the 25. On 29 kick offs we have had returned this year we have given up an average of 19.9 yards. 

 

As for Isaiah. He has had a few questionable decisions on whether to field punts or not, and the fumble against Indy can't happen. But the bizarre play against Washington earlier on the year was absolutely not on him and he is 6th in kick off return average and 9th in punt return average too, so it is a mixed picture. I didn't think Stevenson was particularly impressive last week. I get wanting to take the long term view and go with him but McKenzie had done a pretty good job. 

 

I totally agree - the Bills have been real good at stopping teams short of the 25 with the high, short kickoffs.

 

McKenzie - I have mixed feelings.  He has had some real nice kickoff returns at times, but he has struggled with a consistent approach.  He has also put a few balls on the ground.   Punt returns - I thought he looked more comfortable, but even there he struggles to just get to the ball on each kick.

 

I agree Stevenson does not look really any better - I am not sure what the true benefits of him over McKenzie would be.  He may be here longer, but I don’t see kick returner as a long term role for Stevenson as he seems uncomfortable.  He also can’t fill McKenzie’s gadget role - he seems more of an outside receiver.  
 

Overall - I think it is sending a message and we will see who responds and who takes control of the position as we move forward once we get through the COVID and injuries.

 

 

[4merper4mer]

33 minutes ago, Beerball said:

I know, can you imagine the equipment needed by @Gugny if he was to ***** himself? 

 

Magnifying glass, teeny tiny tweezers, a drop of lubricant. Am I missing anything?

Mr. Met costume?

[Fan in Chicago]

4 hours ago, Apocalypse Nuts said:

You and Hapless please go fk yourselves.  

Were you drunk?

[Gugny]

35 minutes ago, Beerball said:

I know, can you imagine the equipment needed by @Gugny if he was to ***** himself? 

 

Magnifying glass, teeny tiny tweezers, a drop of lubricant. Am I missing anything?

 

Mirrors.

 

Just now, 4merper4mer said:

Mr. Met costume?

 

I'd have to take off those gloves!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Apocalypse Nuts said:

You need to chill now bro before you piss me off.  

 

If stating your personal opinion as fact and being challenged to "show your work" is gonna piss you off, you might want to reconsider your life choices to be here.

 

5 hours ago, Apocalypse Nuts said:

Save your internet superiority attitude for someone else.

 

If being asked to "show your work" and back up what you say is gonna be interpreted by you as an "internet superiority attitude", ditto

 

5 hours ago, Apocalypse Nuts said:

I said what I said because I know I’m right from watching all the games with my own eyes and somehow I’m not alone in this opinion. 

 

Sharing an opinion with someone else doesn't mean you're right.  McKenzie has one muff and one fumble this season.

If you want credibility here, and you see something else, Stand and Deliver - prove it.  Which games, which quarters, which plays.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If stating your personal opinion as fact and being challenged to "show your work" is gonna piss you off, you might want to reconsider your life choices to be here.

 

 

If being asked to "show your work" and back up what you say is gonna be interpreted by you as an "internet superiority attitude", ditto

 

 

Sharing an opinion with someone else doesn't mean you're right.  McKenzie has one muff and one fumble this season.

If you want credibility here, and you see something else, Stand and Deliver - prove it.  Which games, which quarters, which plays.

 

Didn't stevenson have a muff in the game this week?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, FLFan said:

Hopefully, your stay around here will be short.   

 

The Magic Eight Ball says "unless change occurs, Highly Probable".  Not because of what he said to me, but because the attitude "you need to chill before you piss me off" after being questioned is fundamentally incompatible with the kind of discussion we're trying to foster here.

 

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

Didn't stevenson have a muff in the game this week?

 

Yes, he did. 

 

Reportedly, he also had more muffs and looked less comfortable in pre-season, so it remains to be seen if he's less of an adventure than McKenzie was.

[Captain_Quint]

46 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

Yes, he did. 

 

Reportedly, he also had more muffs and looked less comfortable in pre-season, so it remains to be seen if he's less of an adventure than McKenzie was.

 

This is where my confusion lies as well.

 

On Thursday, he reminded me of watching Bass try to kick the first couple games of his rookie year. PAINFUL. We all know how Bass turned it around, so I'm hopeful that the coaches see something that we don't with Stevenson. He does look fast. 

 

But the timing of the switch is questionable. We are about to face the Pats with an 'always solid' special teams unit with a focus on punching at the ball. It's also a pivotal point in the season, where one play can mean alot (good and bad). 

 

I think this is a "Trust the Process" decision at this point. 

 

 

[Gugny]

I really hope McKenzie is active and returning kicks a week from now.

 

I don't think now is the time for McD to dig in on the Process crap.  We need to field our best players and McKenzie is our best return man.

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, Captain_Quint said:

 

This is where my confusion lies as well.

 

On Thursday, he reminded me of watching Bass try to kick the first couple games of his rookie year. PAINFUL. We all know how Bass turned it around, so I'm hopeful that the coaches see something that we don't with Stevenson. He does look fast. 

 

But the timing of the switch is questionable. We are about to face the Pats with an 'always solid' special teams unit with a focus on punching at the ball. It's also a pivotal point in the season, where one play can mean alot (good and bad). 

 

I think this is a "Trust the Process" decision at this point. 

 

 

It will be interesting to see.   Seems that Stevenson is the way of the future.  The long term plan, for a run of continued success, is to integrate the drafted rookies.  Stevenson would fit that plan perfectly - replacing Mck.  Does seem a little risky with NE looming though.

 

Isaah's sub 25 yard average is not impressive.  You would get to the 25 if you just let it go.  And too often they don't just let it go.  We rarely get KOs that aren't in the end zone, so most of the choice to bring it out is a loser.  And it seems like the 24+ figure doesn't account for those frequent block in the back penalites.  I generally root for us not to bring it out so Josh can have it at the 25 - I'm fine with that.

 

Seems to me that if you have a player that just does returns, they want to bring it out more than I like.  Kind of a hero ball thing, because it is their only way to make a name for themselves.  Reminds me of the Andre debacle in the Indy playoff game.  I hope they have bigger plans for Stevenson than just returns.

[Gugny]

16 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Isaah's sub 25 yard average is not impressive.  

 

It's 4th in the NFL.

 

1. - 29.2

2. - 25.5

T-3. - 24.4

4. - 24.9 (McKenzie)

 

He's literally less than 2 feet/return from being in 2nd place in the NFL.

 

I find that to be impressive.