Carson Palmer concerned?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

7 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

Cant trust a palmer.

🤔

[BarleyNY]

12 hours ago, HappyDays said:

On 3rd and 18, Allen should have thrown the ball out of bounds so that the Bills could punt. Cool.

That is not what Palmer said about that throw.  He said that the decision to make that particular throw was the problem.  And it certainly was.   Cover 2 with very good coverage by the CB and a S on that side in great position and with no other possible responsibility.  Allen literally threw the ball to the receiver who was the most well covered out of 5.  It was an awful decision with a predictable result. 
 

Note: Allen did get pressure from a spy right before the throw and I think that might have had a lot to do with it. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by BarleyNY

[Mr. WEO]

did he mention footwork?  the Palmers are legend for their footwork.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, letsgoteam said:

Is there an ignore feature on this message board, so you can't see a person's post?

 

Yes.  Hover over their avatar.  A menu should pop up.  Choose "ignore"

You can also do this through your username, hover over it, menu will appear, choose "ignored users" and type in the username you want to ignore.

You can select whether to ignore posts, PMs, or shouts

 

On a mobile device, click on the 3 bars at the top R, then "my account" then select "ignored users"

There are probably other ways to get there on a mobile device but I haven't figured them out yet.

[Heels20X6]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The OP is crusading the idea that McDermott has "checked out" and will quit the Bills to take the HC job at USC, complete with wrong information about McDermott having grown up in the USC area vs. reality (where he was actually born and grew up).  He's started 1 or 2 other threads and other posts about it and won't let go.

 

This time he's trying to sneak it in by titling it "Carson Palmer concerned" and linking the video, in the hopes we won't notice, I guess.

 

 

Does the forum not have rules against "Crusading"?

 

I'm really getting tired of his idiotic posts derailing every thread with this completely fabricated rumor.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Heels20X6 said:

 

Does the forum not have rules against "Crusading"?

 

I'm really getting tired of his idiotic posts derailing every thread with this completely fabricated rumor.

 

We do, but  contrary to sometimes-expressed belief, we don't just throw people off the board at the first or even second or third infraction. 

 

I probably should have shut down the thread but by the time I got here it actually contained some football conversation and, well, Hey, it's Thanksgiving.   You can set him on your Ignore list, and probably should if you feel that way about it.  Instructions above.

 

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

That is not what Palmer said about that throw.  He said that the decision to make that particular throw was the problem.  And it certainly was.   Cover 2 with very good coverage by the CB and a S on that side in great position and with no other possible responsibility.  Allen literally threw the ball to the receiver who was the most well covered out of 5.  It was an awful decision with a predictable result. 
 

Note: Allen did get pressure from a spy right before the throw and I think that might have had a lot to do with it. 

 

With the new, improved, downgraded version of Gamepass I can't go back and find that specific play easily.  Where were the other receivers located? 

 

There may have been a touch of "arm arrogance" involved.  Often Josh can get that ball in there before the safety arrives.

 

 

[JDubya76]

8 hours ago, Momma Pecoraro said:

Who killed Laura Palmer?

 

[Niagara Dude]

14 hours ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

Anybody else feeling that this isn't just a small shot in the dark anymore?  USC wants to re-invent itself.  With a buy out offer, contract sheet, and to woo away talent with head coaching pedigree.  Folks can tell me a million times but it's like a Parker novel for me.... until, it happens we cannot rule anything out.

I have no problem with Allen and his ability to be an elite QB,  the problem sits with Beanne and doing nothing in the offseason to provide him a running game and avoid being so one demensional.   To proud to cut and replace either Singetary or Moss because he invested 3rd round picks in both and same could be said about his bust 2nd rounder Cody Ford.  If the Bills and Aleen fail to achieve their Super Bowl goals i could see at least 4 new offensive starters next season.

[BarleyNY]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

With the new, improved, downgraded version of Gamepass I can't go back and find that specific play easily.  Where were the other receivers located? 

 

There may have been a touch of "arm arrogance" involved.  Often Josh can get that ball in there before the safety arrives.

 

 

Yes, Gamepass really sucks this year.  That play was at about 4 min left in the first quarter I think.  The play had receivers in both flats, one running an intermediate depth cross, one deep left and one deep right (where it was thrown.  I think I saw the All-22 in the thread with Chris Simms talking about the play.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Yes, Gamepass really sucks this year.  That play was at about 4 min left in the first quarter I think.  The play had receivers in both flats, one running an intermediate depth cross, one deep left and one deep right (where it was thrown.  I think I saw the All-22 in the thread with Chris Simms talking about the play.

 

So he had a receiver with less coverage who was past the line of gain?

 

It's been an issue with Josh where he won't take a wide-open throw to a guy who is short of the sticks, even if the coverage is so off that there seems to be a reasonable chance the guy could convert.

[T master]

12 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Carson didn’t say anything out of the ordinary.  It sounds like he doesn’t follow the team as closely as we do.  He was correct in just about everything he said - but he did lack a little context.

 I don’t think the issue was as much with tackling as it was with the lack of fits on the DL.  When an OL can easily push the front seven around to the point where the secondary has to make tackles at the second or third levels it’s never good.  Especially against a back like Taylor.

 

As far as Josh, yes there have been some bad decisions.  But these have been brought on by the situation he’s in - namely an offensive line who struggled to protect, the lack of a running game, and a multiple score deficit on Sunday.  Josh definitely needs to learn to play from behind but given the situations above, it can be ridiculously challenging.  

 

I agree with what your saying but when your getting paid the kind of money your getting paid to be that guy then you need to be that guy because you were thought by those paying you that you were that guy . 

 

If that makes any sense . 🤔

[Hapless Bills Fan]

42 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

I have no problem with Allen and his ability to be an elite QB,  the problem sits with Beanne and doing nothing in the offseason to provide him a running game and avoid being so one demensional.   To proud to cut and replace either Singetary or Moss because he invested 3rd round picks in both and same could be said about his bust 2nd rounder Cody Ford.  If the Bills and Aleen fail to achieve their Super Bowl goals i could see at least 4 new offensive starters next season.

 

Just a point that if we move on too quickly from a draft pick and they flourish elsewhere, then a GM faces justifiable criticism for "the one that got away".

 

Beane's assessment was that Cody Ford had been hampered by injuries and would "get right" in the off season and flourish.  His assessment was wrong, but in fairness, there's guesswork in projecting how an injured player will develop. 

 

I think the evaluation on Singletary and Moss was that they could play if we could run between the tackles, and he added Breida to give us outside speed.  So the misevaluation at RB is linked to the misevaluation at OL, plus the choices to keep Breida inactive and to stubbornly persist in playing so much from the shotgun when we can't run from the shotgun, and predominantly running when we play under center.

[BarleyNY]

33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So he had a receiver with less coverage who was past the line of gain?

 

It's been an issue with Josh where he won't take a wide-open throw to a guy who is short of the sticks, even if the coverage is so off that there seems to be a reasonable chance the guy could convert.

That’s a terrible argument.  Especially considering it was 3rd down.  No need to get all 18 on that play.  I think the crossing pattern would’ve had a chance if hit in stride though - and it was single coverage there.

 

I know Allen is capable of playing much better than he demonstrated on that one play.  It was a terrible decision, but it was one play.  I don’t expect to see that kind of mistake become a regular thing for him.  Simms chalked it up to impatience and he’s probably right.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

That’s a terrible argument.  Especially considering it was 3rd down.  No need to get all 18 on that play.  I think the crossing pattern would’ve had a chance if hit in stride though - and it was single coverage there.

 

I know Allen is capable of playing much better than he demonstrated on that one play.  It was a terrible decision, but it was one play.  I don’t expect to see that kind of mistake become a regular thing for him.  Simms chalked it up to impatience and he’s probably right.

 

What argument am I making?

 

I'm simply stating what I observe as a tendency of Josh's.  And if I observe it, I'm sure opposing DCs also observe it. 

 

I don't think it's "impatience", it's an ingrained trait at this point going back to college when he literally didn't have players he could rely on to convert, it was either run it past the sticks himself, throw past the sticks, or fahgetaboutit.   I've commented on this before: Josh will literally overlook a safe short throw to a wide open player who has enough green field around him to plant a ***** Christmas tree farm and harvest a tree before a defender gets there.  Why is this the case?  Because defenses KNOW that's a gap in Josh's game, so they put the defense elsewhere, where they hinder the throws Josh will actually try to make.

 

Josh is going to have to consciously work to alter this pattern, and I'm sure his coaches and he are working on it.

 

For the record, I agree with you that even if we failed to convert, if we even get 15 or even 10 yds so we're back in FG range then kick off, we're in a better position than if Josh throws a pick (which some have fallaciously claimed was as good as a punt, but it wasn't a punting down yet).  Situational football; points better than no points.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

That’s a terrible argument.  Especially considering it was 3rd down.  No need to get all 18 on that play.  I think the crossing pattern would’ve had a chance if hit in stride though - and it was single coverage there.

 

I know Allen is capable of playing much better than he demonstrated on that one play.  It was a terrible decision, but it was one play.  I don’t expect to see that kind of mistake become a regular thing for him.  Simms chalked it up to impatience and he’s probably right.

 

While none of us want it to be a regular thing in 4 plus years of play that is somewhat of a regular thing for him.  Regular to the point it resurfaces from time to time.  He's got better, has more good spells in between than bad.  Yes is impatience, but to the point whenever things go bad he tends to do to much and that is becoming a regular thing.  Maybe the issue to is last season he got away with it most of the year so has got a bit over confident in that he can make that throw all the time.

 

Most big arm QB's do the same so Allen certainly isn't unique there, but with a team as one sided as the Bills are makes it tougher.  Even Aaron Rodgers will still had the ball off at a higher rate with success as they have a good running game.

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

That is not what he said. At all. There were shorter options on that play that would have gotten them into FG range. He didn’t take them and threw it into the teeth of a two-deep zone with a lurking safety. And yes, a punt that nailed them deep would have been better than the INT.

 

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

That is not what Palmer said about that throw.  He said that the decision to make that particular throw was the problem.  And it certainly was.   Cover 2 with very good coverage by the CB and a S on that side in great position and with no other possible responsibility.  Allen literally threw the ball to the receiver who was the most well covered out of 5.  It was an awful decision with a predictable result. 

 

I've posted this breakdown several times. It was not a bad decision.

 

 

Allen throws the ball right when Davis should be coming out of his break. Instead the CB wins the rep and takes Davis out of the play and the safety is able to get in front of him. Davis's break at the top of the route is awful by the way. It looks like he's playing on ice.

 

It would have been a difficult completion in a very tight window... but that's where the design of the play takes him and Allen makes those plays all the time. Do you want him to never take the chance? You can't have both.

 

Instead of blaming the QB for trying to pick up a 3rd and 18, blame the offensive system and personnel that require him to convert multiple plays like this every single week for the Bills to have a chance to score TDs. If Daboll didn't want him to try to pick up the 1st he could have just run the ball or called a screen. I think it's crazy that we want Allen to not even try and just concede a punt or a possible long FG.

[Niagara Dude]

27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Just a point that if we move on too quickly from a draft pick and they flourish elsewhere, then a GM faces justifiable criticism for "the one that got away".

 

Beane's assessment was that Cody Ford had been hampered by injuries and would "get right" in the off season and flourish.  His assessment was wrong, but in fairness, there's guesswork in projecting how an injured player will develop. 

 

I think the evaluation on Singletary and Moss was that they could play if we could run between the tackles, and he added Breida to give us outside speed.  So the misevaluation at RB is linked to the misevaluation at OL, plus the choices to keep Breida inactive and to stubbornly persist in playing so much from the shotgun when we can't run from the shotgun, and predominantly running when we play under center.

I agree and cannot say any other GM would have done any differently,  at some point you need to move on because keeping those players are not moving your team forward. Book me down as saying Brieda is going to big day running the football tonight,  that is a fast track and he will make plays in the both the running game and receiving with yards after the catch.  I still don't understand why it took so long to make him active for games,  any holes with this line do not stay open long.  You need to hit the hole with speed or as we saw with Breida if defenders are not respecting the edges you cut and break it to the outside.  Breaking to the outside is not something teams are spending any times concerning themselves with when either Moss or Singeltary are in the game.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

I agree and cannot say any other GM would have done any differently,  at some point you need to move on because keeping those players are not moving your team forward. Book me down as saying Brieda is going to big day running the football tonight,  that is a fast track and he will make plays in the both the running game and receiving with yards after the catch.  I still don't understand why it took so long to make him active for games,  any holes with this line do not stay open long.  You need to hit the hole with speed or as we saw with Breida if defenders are not respecting the edges you cut and break it to the outside.  Breaking to the outside is not something teams are spending any times concerning themselves with when either Moss or Singeltary are in the game.

 

Complete agreement with that last. 

 

I'm speculating here, but I think there are two reasons why Breida has struggled to see the field:

1) Daboll likes to keep the same players on the field and use them differently from snap to snap.  I think Breida is not a good blocker and has struggled to master the Bills protection schemes.  Well, maybe if we ran more and more effectively, it wouldn't be such a tough snarl to protect in the passing game.

2) On the Bills, ST has an equal say in what players are active.  Having lost Bam Johnson, I think Heath Farwell has been banging the table for Kumerow each week.

 

At some point, Frazier needs to suck it up and get the job done without activating 9 DLmen, and Farwell needs to suck it up and get the job done on ST with 6 specialists in addition to 3 dedicated STers.

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Did you actually watch it? Palmer makes some good points, particularly about his short-range throws with super-high velocity. We’re seeing drops because the ball is simply coming in too fast at times; it’s not the fault of the receiver always. Palmer also states emphatically that he loves Allen.

That is not what he said. At all. There were shorter options on that play that would have gotten them into FG range. He didn’t take them and threw it into the teeth of a two-deep zone with a lurking safety. And yes, a punt that nailed them deep would have been better than the INT.

There were no shorter options that would have gotten them into field goal range.

 

A punt would have been a marginally better outcome.

[Niagara Dude]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Complete agreement with that last. 

 

I'm speculating here, but I think there are two reasons why Breida has struggled to see the field:

1) Daboll likes to keep the same players on the field and use them differently from snap to snap.  I think Breida is not a good blocker and has struggled to master the Bills protection schemes.  Well, maybe if we ran more and more effectively, it wouldn't be such a tough snarl to protect in the passing game.

2) On the Bills, ST has an equal say in what players are active.  Having lost Bam Johnson, I think Heath Farwell has been banging the table for Kumerow each week.

 

At some point, Frazier needs to suck it up and get the job done without activating 9 DLmen, and Farwell needs to suck it up and get the job done on ST with 6 specialists in addition to 3 dedicated STers.

I agree about the pass blocking could be a factor,  but with his 4.3 speed you could also use him on screens to slow down the pass rush.  Right now teams are just having the D-lineman pin their ears back and go with no worries about any running game,  that makes things even tougher pass bloacking.  As for Frazier, we have had very little pass rush since the start of the season and yes what special plays have our ST'S made this season?  Cost the Steelers game with blocked punt and the fumble by McKensie on Sunday was a killer just before the half. I believe when role players are not getting it done it's not a bad idea to give other players an opportunity,  perhaps we see Stevenson returning kicks tonight on that fast track.

 

End of the day no matter what happens this season i still have very high hopes in the coming seasons because i still believe Allen is an elite QB who just needs to some more help around him.  Even Jim Kelly had is bumps in the road,  but things changed once Thurman turned into an elite RB 

 

Everyone talks about have triplets,  we have Allen the most important piece,  Diggs who is a great option and now just need a feature 3 down RB. 

 

Brieda will be a huge difference maker tonight