Greg Cosell, NFL Films painted a not-so-great picture on Bills O

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Success said:

I think Beane is a genius, and among the best GM's in the NFL.

 

But he miscalculated this offseason, and it was a big miss.  I think he saw the O-line and RB situation as "good enough."  No doubt that he didn't think those units were world beaters, but that they'd be able to do the job of keeping the offense at least minimally balanced and protect Allen.

 

If we don't win a SB this season, those 2 units are the reason why (I know this isn't a newsflash). I get that we had to address things like pass rush as well, and that on paper, the O-line didn't look as bad as they've been playing - but the run game is a tough one.  Looking around the league, other teams were able to upgrade fairly easily.  The Bills just didn't make much of an effort.

 

I think Beane and McDermott both owe their extensions to Allen tbh. Without him standing on his head the past year and a half this is a sub-.500 team under their management the last 4 seasons, and they're likely both looking for their next team at the end of this year.

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, zow2 said:

Saw Greg breaking down the Bills on TV today.  Nothing we don't already know but this is from someone who watches every piece of film...

Let's hope the Bills are fixing some of these issues.

 

Problems are:

- Lack of running game, no commitment to it whatsoever. RB's aren't good enough.

- OLine are not nearly good enough in pass protection to throw the ball as often as they want.

- Lacking explosive plays in passing game which existed last season.  If drives can't be sustained by running, Bills must have explosive plays.

- Buffalo cannot execute a viable offense if the only dimension is passing. 

- Josh Allen has to be special, every week, every play, or the Bills cannot win.  That's too much to ask, does not believe it's sustainable.  

Agree 100% with Greg Cosell. Can these issues be addressed and corrected in time to make a nice playoff run? 

4 hours ago, BananaB said:

He’s been saying the same on OBL the past few weeks. 

Because little has changed. The Bills have not or cannot make the proper adjustments. 

2 hours ago, Success said:

I think Beane is a genius, and among the best GM's in the NFL.

 

But he miscalculated this offseason, and it was a big miss.  I think he saw the O-line and RB situation as "good enough."  No doubt that he didn't think those units were world beaters, but that they'd be able to do the job of keeping the offense at least minimally balanced and protect Allen.

 

If we don't win a SB this season, those 2 units are the reason why (I know this isn't a newsflash). I get that we had to address things like pass rush as well, and that on paper, the O-line didn't look as bad as they've been playing - but the run game is a tough one.  Looking around the league, other teams were able to upgrade fairly easily.  The Bills just didn't make much of an effort.

 

Great post. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

agreed. Big shocker that the passing game suffers in the rain and wind storms we play in every week. We had like 8 drops last game. The way you beat the cover 2 is to catch short passes. But you can’t do that when the ball is slick and your guys drop balls on key downs. 

 

Not only that - but to sustain a long drive, you have to be able to play error free football.  No false starts, no holds, etc.

[JerseyBills]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He appears pretty regularly on a segment with Chris Brown and Steve Tasker and he pretty much said the same things a couple weeks back.

 

I guess one question is why they're lacking explosive plays in the passing game from last season - did they say anything about that?

 

 

I saw some stuff on Bills Twitter basically saying they're going to start giving Diggs alot more touches. 

He was asked in a press conference about that and he smiled and winked. 

We have a potential HOF WR. 

Gotta get 14 going and open up the O that way. 

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, zow2 said:

Saw Greg breaking down the Bills on TV today.  Nothing we don't already know but this is from someone who watches every piece of film...

Let's hope the Bills are fixing some of these issues.

 

Problems are:

- Lack of running game, no commitment to it whatsoever. RB's aren't good enough.

- OLine are not nearly good enough in pass protection to throw the ball as often as they want.

- Lacking explosive plays in passing game which existed last season.  If drives can't be sustained by running, Bills must have explosive plays.

- Buffalo cannot execute a viable offense if the only dimension is passing. 

- Josh Allen has to be special, every week, every play, or the Bills cannot win.  That's too much to ask, does not believe it's sustainable.  

 

 

Again, Daryl Williams was playing out of position, Cody Ford was in and Boettger too, and Spencer Brown was out with Covid.

 

Not that that means that now everything is hunky-dory. We've got some issues. But when we have the top five guys on the OL, we are a lot better than the group we put out there against the Colts.

[Einstein]

5 hours ago, zow2 said:

Saw Greg breaking down the Bills on TV today.  Nothing we don't already know but this is from someone who watches every piece of film...

Let's hope the Bills are fixing some of these issues.

 

Problems are:

- Lack of running game, no commitment to it whatsoever. RB's aren't good enough.

- OLine are not nearly good enough in pass protection to throw the ball as often as they want.

- Lacking explosive plays in passing game which existed last season.  If drives can't be sustained by running, Bills must have explosive plays.

- Buffalo cannot execute a viable offense if the only dimension is passing. 

- Josh Allen has to be special, every week, every play, or the Bills cannot win.  That's too much to ask, does not believe it's sustainable.  

 

As for the running game, how long should one commit to something that clearly isn’t working?

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Success said:

I think Beane is a genius, and among the best GM's in the NFL.

 

But he miscalculated this offseason, and it was a big miss.  I think he saw the O-line and RB situation as "good enough."  No doubt that he didn't think those units were world beaters, but that they'd be able to do the job of keeping the offense at least minimally balanced and protect Allen.

 

If we don't win a SB this season, those 2 units are the reason why (I know this isn't a newsflash). I get that we had to address things like pass rush as well, and that on paper, the O-line didn't look as bad as they've been playing - but the run game is a tough one.  Looking around the league, other teams were able to upgrade fairly easily.  The Bills just didn't make much of an effort.

 

 

 

Reasonable post, but I think it's worthwhile to point out that two guys, Daryl Williams and Dawkins, have experienced major and completely unpredictable regressions this year from last year.

 

Last year's OL was pretty good. Certainly not great, but really pretty good.

 

I don't think there was any way for Beane or anyone to know that Williams, who really played well at RT last year, would prove this year to be poor at the same position. Or that Dawkins would get Covid and go from probably a top seven or so in the league LT to a slightly above average LT.

 

If Dawkins and Williams were simply playing at the same level they achieved last year, what would things have looked like with Spencer Brown coming in and being as good as he has been? Could've been a really good line. I don't see this as a miscalculation. More of an unpredictable problem.

 

Behind that functioning OL, these RBs would have been just fine. Not great. Not game-breakers. But just fine.

 

As for other teams upgrading, first they probably didn't have unexplainable and unpredictable regressions at key positions, and they also were probably in better position with the salary cap than the Bills were. The Covid cap fall was also not predictable, and it hit the Bills worse than most other teams. That's why some of those other teams did better. They had more to work with under the cap.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Thurman#1

[97bills]

5 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Literally everyone  including the Bills knows this.  It's time for the oline to sack up and run the damn ball

Can they, sometimes you just have bad players 

[Thurman#1]

31 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think Beane and McDermott both owe their extensions to Allen tbh. Without him standing on his head the past year and a half this is a sub-.500 team under their management the last 4 seasons, and they're likely both looking for their next team at the end of this year.

 

 

If you want to say that Beane and McDermott owe a ton to Allen you should also point out that Allen owes a ton to them as well.

 

They picked him, loving him when many didn't. They planned to sit him his first year, though it proved impossible. The year they expected to play him, they brought in a ton of FA OLs and built a solid unit in front of him and then last year brought in a top-flight group of WRs. Allen has been in an excellent situation, and that's down to Beane and McDermott.

[Low Positive]

So, as far as I can tell from listening to the analysis, it’s ok to be one dimensional just as long as that one dimension is running the football. 

[97bills]

2 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

A team like the Niners has such a good OL that everybody they put in the backfield, including Deebo Samuel is effective.

And they have a good OC, daboll isn’t very good at all. 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

If you want to say that Beane and McDermott owe a ton to Allen you should also point out that Allen owes a ton to them as well.

 

They picked him, loving him when many didn't. They planned to sit him his first year, though it proved impossible. The year they expected to play him, they brought in a ton of FA OLs and built a solid unit in front of him and then last year brought in a top-flight group of WRs. Allen has been in an excellent situation, and that's down to Beane and McDermott.

My comment was less a knock on Beane or McDermott than it was to illustrate Allen’s importance to the franchise.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, DrPJax said:

They can “ thrive” in ths dome against an average team all they want.  It will Mean nothing.  So what if we beat a non conference opponent ( and I’m not sure we will as Peyton is a better , SB winning coach ). .does that Improve our afc conference standing?  All our loses are AFC  loses. , we lose tiebreakers to everyone except the pats as we have yet to play them.  Our o is stagnant , our line is not capable of short yardage wins and we can’t/ don’t run in the red zone. Do yo honestly see us winning away games against the Bucs / Pats?  
 

I see our best record as 11-6, and could be 10-7 and losing tie breakers , as we are outside looking in. We blew the easy wins, our o coordinator won’t run the ball and does not know how to develop an effective run scheme. After losses to the Bucs& Pats, we turn toward draft discussion , but most importantly we begin our search for a new o coordinator who can combine the run and pass. Pats game may be close within a possession ,but I see theBucs easily by 14-17 points. The pats , getting on a roll for the playoffs , lay a big loss on us in New England as the bills are ready to forget this season and players know coordinators, line coaches are lame ducks. 
 

Basically , a dome doesn’t run or stop the run!  Our line play , slow backs like moss, and an o coordinator refusing to run , has wasted  a season , or two as we are forced to rebuild an offense that is not solely based on Josh. Even TB, got help and it’s a shame it took a wasted year for Mcd and Beane to grasp basic NFL  winning principles.   Do you HONESTLY BELIEVE WE SWEEP THE BUCS ANd PATS?  And if the dome is so important,,,,,,where are we getting one for the two pats games and against the Bucs?  The bills ARE WHO WE SAW against the Colts,,,,,,records are not fabricated!   We may squeak by the Saints, another so- so team, but do t drink the kool- aid,,,,we are not beating the Bucs at home and the pats twice. Hey , they lead the division and they just need to win one of our games to take the division, and this Bills team is too inconsistent to string wins together.  They haven’t in a month, no evidence they can flip a switch now!  There is no run coming like we saw end last year. Hope to be wrong, but I hope to win the lottery too !  I like controlling one’s fate over hope every time! 

 

 

A dome doesn't run or stop the run, correct.

 

The return of Lotulelei and Edmunds on the other hand, stand a pretty good chance of stopping the run much better, and the return of Spencer Brown and Feliciano stand a chance of helping us run better.

 

Not to mention not facing any other OLs as good as Indy's, and probably beyond that not facing a team so willing to break their tendencies so well as the Colts did in suddenly going heavy with traps and whams.

 

The Bills aren't who we saw against the Colts. The Bills are who we've seen all season. Some good games and some bad games, and not playing well right now but with certainly a chance to figure things out and start playing better the way the Chiefs appear to have done.

 

And it's nonsense that we've suddenly stopped running and that's the problem, which can thus be blamed on the OC. Nonsense. This year we've run on 39.9% of plays. Last year (and we were pretty good last year) we ran on 40.8%. That difference is statistically insignificant.

 

 

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

My comment was less a knock on Beane or McDermott than it was to illustrate Allen’s importance to the franchise.

 

 

Mine was to illustrate Beane and McDermott's importance to Allen. Which I think is underestimated.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Success said:

I think Beane is a genius, and among the best GM's in the NFL.

 

But he miscalculated this offseason, and it was a big miss.  I think he saw the O-line and RB situation as "good enough."  No doubt that he didn't think those units were world beaters, but that they'd be able to do the job of keeping the offense at least minimally balanced and protect Allen.

 

If we don't win a SB this season, those 2 units are the reason why (I know this isn't a newsflash). I get that we had to address things like pass rush as well, and that on paper, the O-line didn't look as bad as they've been playing - but the run game is a tough one.  Looking around the league, other teams were able to upgrade fairly easily.  The Bills just didn't make much of an effort.

 

So the bottom line is, you're right that Beane miscalculated. 

To be fair to Beane, last year the OL was "good enough" to pass protect, and good enough to run against most DLs.  Wild cards I don't think Beane could have predicted:

-Feliciano deciding to go on a diet and lose 30 lbs and train for MMA (or whatever it is he's been doing) instead of OL

-Williams regressing badly at RT

-Whatever happened to Dawkins (covid, celebrity, some combination) that threw him off

 

Beane miscalculated that Cody Ford would take a step, but he felt that some combination of Forrest Lamp, Jamil Douglas, and Ike Boettger would step up if he didn't.  That's on Beane - he really did the bare minimum on IOL with his 2 FA signings and bringing Mongo back, and he bet a bit too much on his Ford.  Some of it is a "perfect storm" of stuff he really couldn't have predicted (Williams, Dawkins, skinny Mongo)

 

IMO, Beane (and McDermott) both felt they had end-of-year assessments that the run game could be made functional with the above OL, Singletary and Motor, and the addition of Breida as a speed back IF the Bills changed up their game plan and scheme a bit to be less predictable. 

 

The consensus suggestions I read here from pundits are to run more from shotgun using Breida and outside zone, return to the pin-and-pull blocking that Ford and Morse are more suited for, and put Josh under center where his play-action is more effective and where running a (2,1) set with Gilliam and a TE blocking should be able to consistently get us 3-5 yds. (I feel certain someone will correct me if I've got this wrong)

 

But, somewhere on the way to the game day active roster, Breida became a continual healthy scratch so that Kumerow could start and play ST.  And the committment to making the run game actually work never made it into the Pittsburgh game plan and has hardly shown up since.

 

I guess my point is that yes, Beane should have done more for the IOL - at least, I wanted him to do more for the IOL - but I think the real root of the problem is that Beane gave our offense a chess piece that has not been being used in Breida.  

 

I also believe that Beane's calculation on how much was "enough" to do for the OL and RB position, rested on an action plan for player utilization and play development that has not been followed.  That's 100% hunch on my part, but it's a hunch that McDermott's talk about "I thought we'd be further along by now" after the Jax game somewhat confirms IMO.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Mine was to illustrate Beane and McDermott's importance to Allen. Which I think is underestimated.

Possibly. I think Allen would have succeeded in about 30/32 other franchises, personally. I don't know that I'd say the same for McDermott and Beane without him. That's why they had to move up to get him, which is to their credit. But to act like few wanted him is revisionist...for a while he was being talked about going #1 overall.

[JohnNord]

6 hours ago, zow2 said:

Saw Greg breaking down the Bills on TV today.  Nothing we don't already know but this is from someone who watches every piece of film...

Let's hope the Bills are fixing some of these issues.

 

Problems are:

- Lack of running game, no commitment to it whatsoever. RB's aren't good enough.

- OLine are not nearly good enough in pass protection to throw the ball as often as they want.

- Lacking explosive plays in passing game which existed last season.  If drives can't be sustained by running, Bills must have explosive plays.

- Buffalo cannot execute a viable offense if the only dimension is passing. 

- Josh Allen has to be special, every week, every play, or the Bills cannot win.  That's too much to ask, does not believe it's sustainable.  

I think Craig hits the nall on the head.  The Bills game plan is very reliant on Josh and when he’s not on the talent on the OL isn’t good enough to life him.  We saw this multiple times this season in losses.  The team needs to figure it out or they’ll miss the playoffs 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

We're aware.

They're aware.

I trust the process and coaching to figure this thing out, this is a SB window year. 

And despite bad performances last week, we have Elite D and ST

Elite defenses don’t allow 264 rushing yards in one game. 

[GoBills808]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So the bottom line is, you're right that Beane miscalculated. 

To be fair to Beane, last year the OL was "good enough" to pass protect, and good enough to run against most DLs.  Wild cards I don't think Beane could have predicted:

-Feliciano deciding to go on a diet and lose 30 lbs and train for MMA (or whatever it is he's been doing) instead of OL

-Williams regressing badly at RT

-Whatever happened to Dawkins (covid, celebrity, some combination) that threw him off

 

Beane miscalculated that Cody Ford would take a step, but he felt that some combination of Forrest Lamp, Jamil Douglas, and Ike Boettger would step up if he didn't.  That's on Beane - he really did the bare minimum on IOL with his 2 FA signings and bringing Mongo back, and he bet a bit too much on his Ford.  Some of it is a "perfect storm" of stuff he really couldn't have predicted (Williams, Dawkins, skinny Mongo)

 

IMO, Beane (and McDermott) both felt they had end-of-year assessments that the run game could be made functional with the above OL, Singletary and Motor, and the addition of Breida as a speed back IF the Bills changed up their game plan and scheme a bit to be less predictable. 

 

The consensus suggestions I read here from pundits are to run more from shotgun using Breida and outside zone, return to the pin-and-pull blocking that Ford and Morse are more suited for, and put Josh under center where his play-action is more effective and where running a (2,1) set with Gilliam and a TE blocking should be able to consistently get us 3-5 yds. (I feel certain someone will correct me if I've got this wrong)

 

But, somewhere on the way to the game day active roster, Breida became a continual healthy scratch so that Kumerow could start and play ST.  And the committment to making the run game actually work never made it into the Pittsburgh game plan and has hardly shown up since.

 

I guess my point is that yes, Beane should have done more for the IOL - at least, I wanted him to do more for the IOL - but I think the real root of the problem is that Beane gave our offense a chess piece that has not been being used in Breida.  

 

I also believe that Beane's calculation on how much was "enough" to do for the OL and RB position, rested on an action plan for player utilization and play development that has not been followed.  That's 100% hunch on my part, but it's a hunch that McDermott's talk about "I thought we'd be further along by now" after the Jax game somewhat confirms IMO.

Just re: the line being good enough at run blocking- to be frank they weren't any good at it last year either. If you exclude Allen's 2020 rushing yards, which I think is fair, the Bills finished dead last in total rush yards and very near the bottom in terms of YPA. For context, removing Lamar Jackson's rush yards from the Raven's total still locks them in at 9th best in the league.

 

They were a decent unit in pass pro last year, imo made to look significantly better by Allen's ability to avoid pressure and extend plays. But they have been very poor at run blocking for the better part of two years now.

[billybrew1]

6 hours ago, Augie said:

He has clearly mastered the obvious. How many new starters do you think we’ll have on the OL next year? I’d put the over/under at 2.5. 

I'm hoping two plus a new swing tackle perhaps. Whatwe need is an outstanding two way guardand then another very competent guard.... force Feliciano to the bench where he would make a fine interior line sub.

Give Dawkins and Brown a great offseason. Morse was never the problem really if you give him two good guards..,But what 

I think we really need is an outstanding guard to play off him....

Then, of course, we need a whole new backfield of new full-size,full speed, RBs.... I liked them when we drafted them, because I'm a Bills fan and only looked at the good and assumedboth would drop the bad but the opposite has really happened.... maybe we need a new RB coach too?

 

But that's what we need....

 

Unfortunately, the DT position may need an equal amount of work....

 

PS - anyone who thinks the backs are fine are wrong. Beane is always learning, and it is not all his fault, but he still has a  ways to go to be a Super Bowl winning GM.

 

Back to the drawing board. No more trade ups..... Let's Go Buffalo!

 

PS - the Bills clearly knew they were soft along both lines by drafting nothing but linemen with their first four picks but it was not enough and strangely they mostly avoided the interior.

They also decided to trade-down unsuccessfully, as we lost the two players that we drafted in the tradedown off our practice squad. Sigh..... : (.

I guess maybe they could have made the squad? Or not been stolen? IDK? I will admit, GMing is hard. I sure hope Beane has enough humility to admit mistakes, learn and move on.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Just re: the line being good enough at run blocking- to be frank they weren't any good at it last year either. If you exclude Allen's 2020 rushing yards, which I think is fair, the Bills finished dead last in total rush yards and very near the bottom in terms of YPA. For context, removing Lamar Jackson's rush yards from the Raven's total still locks them in at 9th best in the league.

 

They were a decent unit in pass pro last year, imo made to look significantly better by Allen's ability to avoid pressure and extend plays. But they have been very poor at run blocking for the better part of two years now.

 

I understand that take.  My phrase was "good enough to run against most DLs" (emphasis added)

 

Where I am with the assessment "good enough to run against most DLs" is that I think you have to look under the hood a bit more than just total rush yards or overall YPA, into specifics of games.  When you do that, you see that while there were games last season where we just didn't try to run, there were also some games last year where we ran well or at least adequately.

 

Examples of "well", in the first Patriots game, Moss and Motor rushed for 167 yds (6 ypa)

Chargers, Moss and Motor 141 yds (7 ypa)

Broncos, Moss and Motor 147 yds (7 ypa)

 

There were other games where I believe we could have run, but we were slinging the ball all over the place and just didn't try.

 

Against KC, the Titans, and the Colts we pretty much couldn't run.  Against the Ravens we didn't try.

 

So that was the paradox of the Bills run game last season: sometimes we could run decently, and sometimes when we couldn't, it wasn't on the OL but on the backs, or on the WR and TE missing blocks.  That's why I believe Beane's take-away from the end of season debriefing was that if the RBs came back strong and he added Breida and the offense focused on honing their scheme towards plays we could do and towards being less predictable, it would be good enough.

 

And in hindsight, I think he was probably wrong, but  I also think it's gone a bit sideways from what he (and McDermott) expected.