Not sure if It’s coaching , talent , effort, Do youself a favor;

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, DrPJax said:

Really sorry.  I am typing on an ipad  due to  surgery on my neck which damaged my cervical cord and my hands have no feeling and are not working correct,y.  Was about Vernon Butler  , not Ed. Before I edited , I actually drifted off from pain meds helping cope with 3 new cages filled with Cadaver bone for discs and plates and screws holing my cervical vertebrae in place until they fuse.  Good news I can still walk , bad news is I no longer feel my hands or arms. I    Sorry about confu#ion.     Check Finas analysis  about Vernon Butler not Ed who has been a monster. Finas podcast ,off tackle with John fina, with Joe Miller is worth your time on YouTube!  Again I apologize for the missed typos.  😉

 

Thanks.  Get better.

 

And I agree, Butler sucked.  I thought Oliver was pretty good.  Butler was on his way to the bench when Zimmer was injured and went to IR.

 

 

[Nextmanup]

11 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

So I listed to this Fina podcast, and— sorry— but it was dumb. Much prefer the cover 1 content, with actually sound analysis. 

Just finished it myself.  

 

I don't like the host, and the 2 of them goof around too much and kill a lot of time...but to suggest Fina isn't providing some golden analysis here is misleading.

 

Keep in mind he was a good OL in the NFL; his opinion is informed.  Of course, that doesn't mean he has everything correct and other former NFL players might disagree with some of his conclusions.

 

What is concerning is that he (at least thinks) he is seeing huge coaching problems, lack of attention to detail, and worst of all, lack of effort by a number of players (not Oliver though!).

 

He also praises the effort of guys like Harrison Phillips.

 

If Fina is even 50% right in his analysis, Vernon Butler needs to be off the team this coming off-season....and replacing the line coaches (both sides) might be a good idea too.

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

Just finished it myself.  

 

I don't like the host, and the 2 of them goof around too much and kill a lot of time...but to suggest Fina isn't providing some golden analysis here is misleading.

 

Keep in mind he was a good OL in the NFL; his opinion is informed.  Of course, that doesn't mean he has everything correct and other former NFL players might disagree with some of his conclusions.

 

What is concerning is that he (at least thinks) he is seeing huge coaching problems, lack of attention to detail, and worst of all, lack of effort by a number of players (not Oliver though!).

 

He also praises the effort of guys like Harrison Phillips.

 

If Fina is even 50% right in his analysis, Vernon Butler needs to be off the team this coming off-season....and replacing the line coaches (both sides) might be a good idea too.

 

 

I don’t know, man. I found Fina’s analysis to be super surfacey. Stuff like “lack of effort” and “lacK of toughness” is just cheap analysis. I think everyone can plainly see Vernon Butler is struggling— he’s just not good. So I am not sure the analysis re Butler is anything notable. 

 

i guess what I prefer in the cover 1 podcasts is that there is more of a schematic analysis. Once you study the film, it becomes more apparent that the “lack of effort” stuff isn’t why we lost the game. It’s more the schematic and execution errors. 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 11/23/2021 at 10:16 AM, Captain_Quint said:

I think Oliver pouts when he is forced to play in the middle and be disciplined in his gaps. But I don't think he plays with a lack of intensity for the most part. I think he likes to rush the passer and not be the guy who stands in the middle taking the double team. 

 

I think Butler is a pile, and needs to be shipped down the road ASAP. He's a big fat guy who isn't good at being a big fat guy. 

Butler and Phillip's will likely be gone next year. There's just no consistent production there. Along with new Olinemen,  we'll need a huge 1T to eventually replace Star. Without a true 1T, Ed just seems off. Keep Zimmer and see what you have in Bryant/Ankou ?

Edited November 25, 2021 by LABILLBACKER

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:16 PM, Captain_Quint said:

I think Oliver pouts when he is forced to play in the middle and be disciplined in his gaps. But I don't think he plays with a lack of intensity for the most part. I think he likes to rush the passer and not be the guy who stands in the middle taking the double team. 

 

I think Butler is a pile, and needs to be shipped down the road ASAP. He's a big fat guy who isn't good at being a big fat guy. 

 

Butler suffers from the same problem - his best fit seems to be 3TDT like Oliver, and he pouted big time (Ha!  I slay myself!) when asked to take on the 1TDT role after Star opted out.  The Bills eventually seemed to handle the 1T last year by handing it out like broccoli: "Be good and eat 15 snaps at broccoli Oliver/Butler/Phillips, and we'll let you have 10 snaps at Chocolate sundaes"

 

He's been mostly playing 3T this season with Phillips or Zimmer and Star at 1T.

 

23 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Will I be more or less depressed after this podcast? This is all I need to know before I hit play. Thanks 

 

More I believe

 

22 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

He also praises the effort of guys like Harrison Phillips.

 

Was it Doug Marrone who said "Never Confuse Effort with Results"?

 

 

[maddenboy]

On 11/23/2021 at 8:04 PM, YoloinOhio said:

Will I be more or less depressed after this podcast? This is all I need to know before I hit play. Thanks 

You will be angry.  That we never fire anybody.  Starting with Vernon Butler and our O-line coach.  And maybe the RB coach.  The problems on run plays are runner (vision) and technique and personnel.  And linemen on both sides who somehow end up with their backs turned during the play.

 

But you can skip the first 15 minutes or so, where they are basically drinking beer and shootin' the shtt.

[Nextmanup]

11 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

You will be angry.  That we never fire anybody.  Starting with Vernon Butler and our O-line coach.  And maybe the RB coach.  The problems on run plays are runner (vision) and technique and personnel.  And linemen on both sides who somehow end up with their backs turned during the play.

 

But you can skip the first 15 minutes or so, where they are basically drinking beer and shootin' the shtt.

Yeah...I wish they would get like 50% more serious throughout the entire thing and chop 20 minutes of length out of it.  They goof around too much.

I still really enjoyed hearing Fina's observations, keeping in mind he played on strong teams and was a good player himself.  He said a lot of stuff you aren't going to read anywhere else.

 

His comment about "how we used to dream about" being able to get a hold of a defensive lineman's shoulder pads ON THE BACK SIDE was great.  

 

His observations about wrong positioning on the hand off were also interesting...as well as how Zack Moss was seemingly doing things wrong on multiple plays.

 

I also enjoyed his take on the WHAM play.  Eric Wood spent a good 5 minutes discussing them on his segment with Schopp and Bulldog after the Colts game.  There is definitely work that needs to be done there.

 

Now that I think about it, a 15 or 20 minute discussion between Wood and Fina on the current O line problems would be a hell of an interesting listen.

 

 

[Captain_Quint]

19 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Butler suffers from the same problem - his best fit seems to be 3TDT like Oliver, and he pouted big time (Ha!  I slay myself!) when asked to take on the 1TDT role after Star opted out.  The Bills eventually seemed to handle the 1T last year by handing it out like broccoli: "Be good and eat 15 snaps at broccoli Oliver/Butler/Phillips, and we'll let you have 10 snaps at Chocolate sundaes"

 

He's been mostly playing 3T this season with Phillips or Zimmer and Star at 1T.

 

 

More I believe

 

 

Was it Doug Marrone who said "Never Confuse Effort with Results"?

 

 

I was very disappointed that we didn't draft a big DT or sign a quality free agent to be that guy. They can be had for relatively cheap in FA or you could go after a game changer like Vita Vea in the draft. 

[Apocalypse Nuts]

On 11/23/2021 at 1:10 PM, Paup 1995MVP said:

I have not listened to the Fina Podcast.  Not much of a podcast guy.  But I respect what Fina says  He was a good O lineman for a long time.  He would be the best O lineman on this version of the Bills by far.  (Don't even think that Dawkins is in his league, because he is not even close, even before he was hit w Covid)

 

That being said, the more I read after Sunday's loss the madder I am getting.  The effort and coaching on this team is terrible.  And anyone who says "its only one loss." is living in la la land.  When you lose by 26 points at home, and are never in the game, whatever your record is at the time, you have big problems.  Even more so when you are supposed to be a contender.  After the Colts first drive, or even during the Colts first driver adjustments should have been made to stuff the run and make Wentz beat us.  We did nothing.  On offense we looked like ***** most of the game.  Josh Allen can throw darts.  But he has been off most of the season compared to last year.  And his body language on the sidelines is terrible.  I remember his first two seasons he was high fiving and encouraging everyone on offense and defense.  This year he sits by himself and maybe talks w Davis Webb once in awhile.  Maybe getting in his O lineman's faces once in a while might light a fire under them.  This seems to be a rudderless ship drifting off into the abyss right now.

I have not listened to Fina's stuff yet, but I will when I get around to it.  I'm in no hurry because Fina sucked when he played for the Bills and I cannot for the life of me figure out why people seem to remember differently.  I watched him play in many games.  He sucked.  I can't imagine I can take much seriously from a guy who was a miserable disappointment from the day he was drafted.  Sorry to be so to the point, but if anyone says John Fina was a good lineman when he played, you were not watching him play.

 

 

[Sweats]

Watched Off Tackle this week.......dry man, real dry.

[hemma]

I think I’m going to skip this show.  

It’s getting late and I don’t want to fall asleep & have night terrors.