Not sure if It’s coaching , talent , effort, Do youself a favor;

[Paup 1995MVP]

I have not listened to the Fina Podcast.  Not much of a podcast guy.  But I respect what Fina says  He was a good O lineman for a long time.  He would be the best O lineman on this version of the Bills by far.  (Don't even think that Dawkins is in his league, because he is not even close, even before he was hit w Covid)

 

That being said, the more I read after Sunday's loss the madder I am getting.  The effort and coaching on this team is terrible.  And anyone who says "its only one loss." is living in la la land.  When you lose by 26 points at home, and are never in the game, whatever your record is at the time, you have big problems.  Even more so when you are supposed to be a contender.  After the Colts first drive, or even during the Colts first driver adjustments should have been made to stuff the run and make Wentz beat us.  We did nothing.  On offense we looked like ***** most of the game.  Josh Allen can throw darts.  But he has been off most of the season compared to last year.  And his body language on the sidelines is terrible.  I remember his first two seasons he was high fiving and encouraging everyone on offense and defense.  This year he sits by himself and maybe talks w Davis Webb once in awhile.  Maybe getting in his O lineman's faces once in a while might light a fire under them.  This seems to be a rudderless ship drifting off into the abyss right now.

[GunnerBill]

53 minutes ago, Calidiehard said:

The OP had it wrong as in the video they talk about Oliver having tons of effort all the time and praising him. They talk about Butler having lack of effort and even the plays he writes about being pushed back and having the Oline lift him up by the back of the pads is Butler. 

 

Good. I haven't been back to the game from Sunday yet. Finding it difficult to motivate myself to. But Ed has been very good this season as whole. That said, his career so far has been inconsistent and some of that does appear to be not playing every play at 100%. To my eye he seemed to have overcome that this year so pleased to hear that Sunday wasn't, in fact, a fall back.

[Captain_Quint]

I think Oliver pouts when he is forced to play in the middle and be disciplined in his gaps. But I don't think he plays with a lack of intensity for the most part. I think he likes to rush the passer and not be the guy who stands in the middle taking the double team. 

 

I think Butler is a pile, and needs to be shipped down the road ASAP. He's a big fat guy who isn't good at being a big fat guy. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

4 hours ago, DrPJax said:

     Disclaimer,   I wanted to pass on some great ideas and explanation about that debacle we all were traumatized with against the Colts.  I have no financial or other interest in a podcast on YouTube called OFF TACKLE , WITH JOHN FINA and Joe Miller as the host.   Fina was a starting tackle Ada rookie on the SB 27 team in Pasadena and played many years for the Bills with Joe Miller to do a podcast that is on Tuesdays after the prior weeks game. It is tremendous insight from a lineman who played for our Bills on Super bowl teams.  I watch several podcasts from.amateurs and from pro broadcasters , team beat reporters , national spokespersons etc , and I can honestly say there are so many confusing and contradictory analytic ideas that it’s hard to really know what to believe.  
 

Well, do yourself a favor , take an hour of your time to look on YouTube for Finas OFF TACKLE podcast , and you will be entertained with humor , actual X’s and O’s Analysis , and FRANK , HONEST EVALUATION that is eye opening and information that comes from a pro o lineman who has been in meeting rooms after losses like this. He ends with some hope and actual ideas to solve issues , not just complaining for no reason or without offering constructive criticisms.    At the same time , he offered eye opening frank analysis of the issues on both sides of the ball that avoids rose glass , fanboy analysis.  It is somewhat depressing because the issues are real and not solved easily , but if they aren’t , any realistic hope of playoff hopes is living in a fantasy.  He spares no names , no positions , and he does it to not be mean spirited , but as a Bills fan / alumni, who wants the best for the team.  You are left with the impression of wishing Fina was on our o line staff ( maybe soME day he will be but currently has family commitments such as his son being a center I believe at UCLA. ). 
 

Briefly , the biggest and most critical analysis was about Bernon Butler !  Probably not a surprise to many on here.  Yet Fina called him out for THR CARDINAL SIN OF LACK OF EFFORT ON MULTIPLE PLAYS.!  He was shocked seeing how little effort Oliver played with. MuLTIPLE.  plays he as pushed 5 or more yards behind the LOS. HE even saw plays with the o line driving Oliver backward holding onto the BACK OF HIS JERSEY as he was being pushed away from the line.  And Fina made no bones abi8t the fact that Oliver’s bad play directly resulted,in long Taylor runs several times.  You need to hear John explain it as only John can. It was embarrassment and he said either Oliver has frankly quit or the coaching technique is so bad that changes need to be made.  It takes a lot for a player to call out another player , but Fina didn’t hesitate.  The honestly is refreshing.   After listening, Oliver should be gone and never touch the field,for the bills agsin.  And yes , just missing Edmunds and Starr could have made a big enougn difference to have slowed Taglor.  The colts exploited that weakness and just missing thise two starters probably did add to the blow out.  Please , go listen for yourself.  If we don’t fix this Oliver issue and get healthy, we may well see the Saints do the same as Fina pointed out you can bet they are tweaking their game plan after watching That colts game!  Honestly , if the coaches cant light t a fire or teach better technique , we sadly are in big trouble.  
 

Moving on to Johns area of expertise , it was another great listen.  He feels Ford is basically a liability and he does not see a good future or him. The one guy he supports is Morse.  Dawkins was ok this past game.   Fina sees a lot of bad technique by players and it seems like it comes down to coaching ( Johnson ) , and either poor running game scheme development or poor coaching ( mentions Daboll) that involves mistake by guys like  moss and Allen and that is either on them or poor scheme and coaching by Daboll!      The one area Fina really tackled was the poor runs , mostly by Moss.  Moss hesitates and makes several mistakes including vision and not even going where the zone run is designed to go.  Easy to say Fina is not a  fan of moss! He can explain it best, but just in one example he showed how moss was lost , hesitated and  for that type of run to be successful, it’s a speed play were you have to run to the edge as fast as possible and you can’t pick or choose a hole.  The holes were there , esp on One play where Sweeney  and knox opened a hole and moss was going to the wrong side!   Holes were there for 7-15 yards according to Fina , but moss was lost.  Interestingly he also criticized Allen  whose technique was either not taught or taught incorrectly.  His shoulders were not  square during the handoff and blocked mosses view of the intended hole. If it was not taught , then Daboll is not paying arrention to detail.  John did not mince words.  This performance AND coaching is not acceptable and if it’s not corrected , we can expect more like the colts game.  
 

The positive is it is possible to fix most of this coaching by chewing some ass!  The negative is we have some positions thin or devoid of talent !  I promise it’s worth an hour.   Fina has unique talent and has a future as a coach or a a broadcaster!  Great humor as the time flies by and I think you will feel like yiu gained insight from a tie insider that is rare to come by !  I am bad with links ,  cuz I’m an old dude , please forgive me.  I promise it’s some of the best analysis you will hear and actually enjoy

and has credibility.  !     Again , look on YouTube , OFF TACKLE WITH JOHN FINA and Joe Miller as the host.  I know I have a better idea as to what’s going on regarding the horrific play we were subjected too!  Best wishes, Happy Thanksgiving. To my fellow Bills fans! 

Thanks for the write up and advice. I have some for you...

 

Grow the damn beard or shave the damn stubble, Doc.  This hipster tweener stuff is a blight on humanity, and you're a saver of lives, not Doogie Hauser MD. 

 

Apologies, I'm still down after that Indy game, and may be lashing out. 

[DrPJax]

3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Thanks for the write up and advice. I have some for you...

 

Grow the damn beard or shave the damn stubble, Doc.  This hipster tweener stuff is a blight on humanity, and you're a saver of lives, not Doogie Hauser MD. 

 

Apologies, I'm still down after that Indy game, and may be lashing out. 

Had recent neck surgery and my hands are not steady yet.    Can’t even eat soup w a spoon without missing the large mouth.  My hands still have quite a bit of tremor in them. Thx for the advice , have had a beard since 20:so maybe I cropped iT.  Too close.  In a suit and white coat tho,I am friends with my share of nurses, the sexiest women in the  world.  But at age 64/, things time is taking it’s toll , plus added Bills stress is not helping ! Lol!  

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

Just now, DrPJax said:

Had recent neck surgery and my hands are not steady yet.    Can’t even eat soup w a spoon without missing the large mouth.  My hands still have quite a bit of tremor in them. Thx for the advice , have had a beard since 20:so maybe I cropped iT.  Too close.  In a suit and white coat tho,I am friends with my share of nurses, the sexiest women in the  world.  But at age 64/, things time is taking it’s toll , plus added Bills stress is not helping ! Lol!  

Honestly DrP, that all seemed funnier to me when I first wrote it.  Now, not so much, even before you replied. 

 

Best of luck to you on your recovery.  I enjoy your posts. 

 

 

[JaCrispy]

OP is too long...swipe left...😉

[FLFan]

7 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i have to go back And watch. But there was one play where Oliver shot through the middle to blow up the play. Taylor juked by him, and he was gone for 40 yards. It was his long run of the day. 
 

i was sort of curious about that play— whether Oliver made an almost great penetrating play, but just got juked. Or whether he (and other linemen) just weren’t being very disciplined in their gap control on Sunday. 

I thought that was Harrison on the play, but you could be right. 

[DrPJax]

3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Thanks for the write up and advice. I have some for you...

 

Grow the damn beard or shave the damn stubble, Doc.  This hipster tweener stuff is a blight on humanity, and you're a saver of lives, not Doogie Hauser MD. 

 

Apologies, I'm still down after that Indy game, and may be lashing out. 

Hey also , originally from Ohio , moved to Jax in 85.  Skynerd was a fav band. And watched  them play a huge stadium tour in Pittsburgh ! I got to meet several of them after moving here and even drove Leon Wilkerson around one night after meeting him in  a dive bar. Called pier 7.  Later Judy van zant , Ronnie’s widow, opened a club , restaurant called free bird in Jax beach.  Became friends as she trusted me as her fam doc!   I also treated her daughter whose husband was the lead guitar player of Shinedown!  Great , humble young man.  Saw lots of great shows in that small venue.  Todd rundgren Leon Russell , Jefferson starship, thin Lizzy, Steve Vai , to name a few in a venue that  held between 250-500 tops!   It eventually folded.  But meeting the wife of the infamous Ronnie van zant and some people aroind that group was surreal for a guy from around Steubenville , Ohio!  They had an amateur jam night there that was amazing.  Lost of talented southern rock musicians and great , beautiful young vocalists. Will work on looks once I trust my hands with sharp things sroinf my carotids etc !   Best wishes.  If you can ,  heck our Finas ideas!   Pulls no punches ! 

[Simon]

8 hours ago, DrPJax said:

He was shocked seeing how little effort Oliver played with. MuLTIPLE. plays he as pushed 5 or more yards behind the LOS. HE even saw plays with the o line driving Oliver backward holding onto the BACK OF HIS JERSEY as he was being pushed away from the line.  And Fina made no bones about  the fact that Oliver’s bad play directly resulted,in long Taylor runs several times.  You need to hear John explain it as only John can. It was an embarrassment and he said either Oliver has frankly quit or the coaching technique is so bad that changes need to be made.  It takes a lot for a player to call out another player , but Fina didn’t hesitate.  The honesty is refreshing.   After listening, Oliver should be gone and never touch the field,for the bills agsin.

 

This is one of the absolute worst takes in the long history of this forum

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said:

 

I’m a pretty loyal fan but those personalities are hard to watch long enough to understand if they have anything useful to say

[Billl]

This is a talented team hitting a wall.  I still think they're the biggest threat to unseat Kansas City in the AFC, but they do have some issues.  There has been a ton of draft capital spent on defensive players and RBs in recent years that hasn't really delivered and it's putting stress on the rest of the players.

 

Boogie, Groot, Edmunds, Epenesa, and (to a lesser extent recently) haven't produced anywhere near their draft slots.  AJ in particular looks like the most easily blocked player on the field.  The team just looks physically worn out, and the Colts are maybe the most physical offense in the league which makes for a rough matchup.

 

They're too talented not to rebound, but I do think you're going to see teams try to play smash mouth football against them fight forward, so you'd better get used to it.

[DrPJax]

28 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

This is one of the absolute worst takes in the long history of this forum

Well, quite vague.  Sorry if your related / friends with Oliver wom. Many have calls for his release asap !  It’s ok , everyone entitled to opinions right?   I trust Finas evaluation Ashe had several plays documenting the same lack of effort.  Takes a lot of bad play to get mentioned that much by names by an o lineman who has be in those rooms and even been the j subject  of criticism himself.  I certainly thought his breakdown was well throughout and certainly our run stopping results I think we could agree, was as bad as it gets. I think Fina is credible and has been in thise film / meeting rooms so I tend to think he has more credibility than most amateurs spouting random ideas.  If yiunaremdiredrinf the criticism at me , that ok , I’m not a proficient film nreakdown guy.  I defer to Fina and I found his explanations insightful, yet not so over laden with jargon that they were not accessible.  After being on j this forum since the 80’s, and seeing name allying and personal attacks . I have to say I have seen many worse ,   Juvenile takes and even recently the personal attacks just for differing critiques about the Bills has risen to disappointing rhetoric.  It is what it is but a one sentence critique adds little effort or counter intelligence to the discussion.  Guess that’s reaching a level of gospel tho that is on its own level.  At any rate, best wishes and happy thanksgiving  !  

[DrPJax]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm confused here.

 

You lead off your paragraph saying "the biggest and most critical analysis was about Bernon(sic) Butler"

Then the rest of your paragraph is about Ed Oliver.

 

Who are you talking about - Vernon Butler (lead sentence) or Ed Oliver?

 

Please clarify.

Really sorry.  I am typing on an ipad  due to  surgery on my neck which damaged my cervical cord and my hands have no feeling and are not working correct,y.  Was about Vernon Butler  , not Ed. Before I edited , I actually drifted off from pain meds helping cope with 3 new cages filled with Cadaver bone for discs and plates and screws holing my cervical vertebrae in place until they fuse.  Good news I can still walk , bad news is I no longer feel my hands or arms. I    Sorry about confu#ion.     Check Finas analysis  about Vernon Butler not Ed who has been a monster. Finas podcast ,off tackle with John fina, with Joe Miller is worth your time on YouTube!  Again I apologize for the missed typos.  😉

Edited November 23, 2021 by DrPJax

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

 Was about Vernon Oliver , not Ed. Before I edited , I actually drifted off from pain meds helping cope with 3 new cages filled with Cadaver bone for discs and plates and screws holing my cervical vertebrae in place until they fuse

Doc, I think the meds are getting on top of you ; - )

Vernon's last name is Butler, not Oliver. That's probably where the confusion came about.

Heal well.

[SirAndrew]

7 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I thought Oliver has been playing his best football the last month or so. I get so confused.

I’m confused about a lot things around here these days. It’s like how Star is overrated and overpaid, but his absence also makes us lose games. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

Just now, SirAndrew said:

I’m confused about a lot things around here these days. It’s like how Star is overrated and overpaid, but his absence also makes us lose games. 

A great confusion question!  I need a another pill now

[97bills]

Good lord, someone gives there Insight and some information they heard!!! And all people can do is Insult him, or make fun of him, how about read the post state your information on the game and move on, or don’t say nothing at all  

[Nextmanup]

I'm just getting started with this, barely 10 minutes into it, and I had to come here and give Fina major style points.

 

The host made reference to Plaxico Burress; he said "I remember Plaxico catching a pass, falling down to the ground, getting up without getting touched, and then spiking the football."  LOL

 

But then Fina responded: "Yeah, I remember Plaxico Burress shooting himself in the leg in a night club in NYC."

AWESOME JOHN!

 

LMFAO!

 

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

Will I be more or less depressed after this podcast? This is all I need to know before I hit play. Thanks