THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Huge Loss

[Gugny]

8 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 

1.  The Bills can’t run the ball, so the linebackers and defensive backs can ignore the play fake.

 

 

There is a difference between can't and won't.

 

When the Bills decide to actually use their running backs, they do gain yards.

 

Devin Singletary is averaging 5 yards per attempt ... just like he's done since his rookie year.  

 

He's getting 8 rushing attempts per game.

 

We can run the ball.

 

We simply choose not to.  And THAT is why we're so easy to stop.

 

 

[TheCockSportif]

Good synopsis as always, @Shaw66.  Was wondering if you were going to take the week off after that debacle.

[oldmanfan]

Shaw nails it as always.  I posted a couple days ago that we are a soft team.  And that starts on the lines.  We have guys that get physically beat time after time.

[CSBill]

32 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

There is a difference between can't and won't.

 

When the Bills decide to actually use their running backs, they do gain yards.

 

Devin Singletary is averaging 5 yards per attempt ... just like he's done since his rookie year.  

 

He's getting 8 rushing attempts per game.

 

We can run the ball.

 

We simply choose not to.  And THAT is why we're so easy to stop.

 

 

 

I agree with this point, Gugny.

 

We have watched two games this year where there was a real commitment to the run, the first Miami game and the Jets game two weeks ago (and not coincidentally, both after tough losses)--and yes, neither team is that great, but they both have respectable D-lines. In both games, with that  commitment to the run, the Bills were effective. Actually, very effective. It is possible, but the commitment has to be there.

 

And if you've watched the last few NO games, it seems teams that want to run the ball against them have been able to do that.

 

Coming off another bad loss, a team that can be run upon, and in a "must win" situation, if the Bills don't commit to it this week, then when?

[bmur66]

7 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Gut check.

 

Its an interesting term to use … I googled the meaning…

 

An evaluation or test of a persons resolve, commitment or priorities…

 

Pretty apt…. 
 

The Bills are heading to the Last Chance Saloon for Season 2021-22…

 

This game and the next will tell us all we need to know about a season that 6 weeks ago promised so much…

 

The disappointment will be immense if they fail…

 

We will be the ones facing the gut check then…

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was calling the Colts game a "gut check". It was predictable. How they performed in the 4th quarter said it all.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

Josh decision making has been bad, I’m not sure what he’s thinking on some of his throws, maybe it’s arm arrogance in thinking he can the fit the ball in there. Maybe eat the sack I don’t know or try to get out of the pocket and throw the ball away. But Daboll is doing a piss poor job and I’m ready to move on. 

Go back and look at his second Int in the third quarter, the ball that was tipped. 

We have seven  guys trying to offer I guess as max protection as it can be. Knox, the back and five lineman. It’s still a cluster mess. (Insert swear word) Three Wr set. 

 

My problem with Daboll stems from his Wr routes. As the Colts are just dropping into coverage. Third and eight needing to get to the 30. Beasley and Sanders are running 13-18 yards downfield when see above 7 men have already failed to block for Josh. Sanders is at the 40! Beasley 35.

 

The colts are dropping into zone. Now on the other end not one of our receiver can even get open! Beasley trying to sit in a zone with two defenders around him and Sanders is so close  to Beasley vicinity and covered that there was enough time for those defenders to come over and pick the ball off. 
 

I’ve seen these deep route schemes all season long.
 

Why not more quick slants to Diggs or shorter routes like outs or comeback. 

 

Right now when our guys are asked to go medium to deep I don’t think they have been great at getting open. Beas and Sanders just might be slowing down.. More often than not our best plays are Josh buying time and both him and receiver creating something out of chaos. 
 

They need to use Braieda like an Ekeler. Have him roll out under the coverage and try to hit him running and see what he can do. His speed is evident. They need to make teams account for him. He should be the main back. 

 

What is being put out there offensively is just not good enough and would any one complain if we choose to go in a different direction? 
 

 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

10 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

I might get flamed for this, but I think Daboll has warmed out his welcome.  I'm tired of not being able to run. Maybe I'm spoiled because of all the Travis Henry's, Lesean McCoy's, and Fred Jackson's of the past, but they simple cannot keep putting it all on Allen EVERY game. Look how much he has regressed this year. He's getting absolutely pummeled and the play calling is not helping. 

 

Bills need to start looking for OCs that can get the job done. Imagine what a guy like Greg Roman could do If you gave him a guy like Josh Allen to work with. Passing 75% of the time with a crap offensive line is going to destroy and send him into an early retirement. 

 

The good thing is we've found our QB. With the right moves in the off-season, we can right this ship. Go hard in the draft and free agency for big maulers, hire a  coordinator w/ a proven system. This offense could be soon much better than it is. I refuse to settle for less.

 

Daboll has got to go. 

 

I'm afraid I am also in agreement with this, begrudgingly.............. I am NOT one to go after the OC every game, but Daboll can't keep on going into games with token runs. This team needs a dynamic RB that is not either a one trick pass catching pony (Singletary) or a should be physical force who ends up with a cloud of dust and 2 yards or even a fumble (Moss). WHERE IN THE **** IS BREIDA? Why is he an afterthought when he's by far producing more per play??? Yeah, it's all BS....

 

Daboll, the O-Line, and the RB position are ALL massive issues....... however.......

 

The Bills defense better shape up and not have another game like they did on Sunday.... that was PATHETIC and I'm far more angry about that!!!

 

PS Thank you shaw66 for the Rockpile review as always! Been waiting to read it...

Edited November 23, 2021 by EasternOHBillsFan

[In Summary]

10 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

I don't remember anyone wanting that. Maybe a couple of the random nut jobs we get here, but who the heck doesn't want the Bills to run it? 

 

Everyone saw Tampa Bay last year and how much Brady benefitted from running it. Fournette should've been the Super Bowl MVP last year. 

 

 

The pass first, pass always narrative is in part driven by some WGR personalities. 

[Maynard]

10 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

I might get flamed for this, but I think Daboll has warmed out his welcome.  I'm tired of not being able to run. Maybe I'm spoiled because of all the Travis Henry's, Lesean McCoy's, and Fred Jackson's of the past, but they simple cannot keep putting it all on Allen EVERY game. Look how much he has regressed this year. He's getting absolutely pummeled and the play calling is not helping. 

 

Bills need to start looking for OCs that can get the job done. Imagine what a guy like Greg Roman could do If you gave him a guy like Josh Allen to work with. Passing 75% of the time with a crap offensive line is going to destroy and send him into an early retirement. 

 

The good thing is we've found our QB. With the right moves in the off-season, we can right this ship. Go hard in the draft and free agency for big maulers, hire a  coordinator w/ a proven system. This offense could be soon much better than it is. I refuse to settle for less.

 

Daboll has got to go. 

I don’t see McD firing Daboll, so we have to hope someone pursues him as their next HC. I’m starting to doubt this now though, as his offense is less than stellar and has been a bit exposed this year. If I’m the GM for a team looking for my next HC I’d be looking elsewhere.

[frostbitmic]

Are the Bears still hiring Daboll in the off season to be their new HC ? ... Inquiring minds need to know.

 

If all the offense tries to do Thursday is pass the ball, Cam Jordan is going to feast on JA17. He'll run around, through and over Williams.

[Shaw66]

11 hours ago, BubbaT said:

I don't disagree with what you've said but Feliciano's injury is not season ending. He's eligible to come off IR this week.

Thanks for this.   Actually, I wondered about it, but my faulty memory told me he was done.   If he comes back, that will help.  He has bigger muscles than most of those guys!

[dorquemada]

9 minutes ago, Maynard said:

I don’t see McD firing Daboll, so we have to hope someone pursues him as their next HC. I’m starting to doubt this now though, as his offense is less than stellar and has been a bit exposed this year. If I’m the GM for a team looking for my next HC I’d be looking elsewhere.

 

Oh God let's hope it doesnt turn into the same kind of situation that led to Wade Phillips leaving.  I doubt the Pegulas force McD's hand but the entire coaching staff and leadership seem married to their own ideas and unable/unwilling to adjust

 

Nobody is looking at Daboll as a HC now.  He's a one trick pony.  If you can't make his gimmick work with Josh Allen, i'm not sure there's any QB that can be successful with it beyond a flash in the pan like the Bills had last year

[TC in St. Louis]

The game sucked.  The team made every conceivable mistake.  The Colts played their best game of the year, and we played our worst.  When you play this poorly, you will lose.  

 

Our defense has been dominant in nearly every game.  They failed Sunday.  

 

Time to play angry football.  We're about to find out what we have here in Buffalo.  

[Shaw66]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

The Bills CAN run, Daboll just refuses to try. Breida is an explosive runner. McKenzie is explosive on jet sweeps. Singletary is limited but has shown some shiftiness in open space in recent weeks. But Daboll seemingly only calls run plays to fill his minimum quota for the week. Breida broke open a drive for us yesterday when we desperately needed one. Daboll then put Moss on the field and the drive predictably stalled out. The Bills lacked speed on their offense last year. They added a RB with elite speed and have inexplicably refused to use him.

 

I don't think Daboll truly believes in running the ball. He thinks we can live and die on the same old 20 yard pass plays, and if the o-line doesn't hold up long enough for the routes to develop it's not his fault. Forget running the ball, we'll keep using the same crossing routes and deep hitches. An occasional half hearted screen to fill that quota. Run Beasley and his bruised ribs into heavy traffic and ask him to make tough catches. That stuff worked so well last year, right? Daboll needs to learn - it's crazy that he doesn't already know this - that every season is a new team. He thought he'd just roll back the same offense with no changes and surely it would work. I guess he forgot that there are coaches on the other sideline that have access to last year's tape.

I like these comments, and generally agree, except with the overall conclusion that the Bills can run the ball.   I'm not so sure about that.  The reason is there never seem to be holes or decent seams to run through.  The backs always find a mass of bodies in front of them, and no good spots to cut back to.  The Bills run those outside zone plays sometimes, and nothing opens up.  

 

I do think, however, that there is some truth to the notion that regardless, you have to keep on running it.  You have to give the ball to your backs 20 times a game and pound them in there, even if they're getting 3 yards a carry, because just the fact that the backs are getting the ball every third snap will help keep the defense honest.  Then, if you're right and I'm wrong, they'll spring some runs just by virtue of having tried so often.   Plus, the defense naturally will react to the run fake.  

 

I agree about lack of speed.   And I really agree about getting the ball wide.   Bucs opened last night running a receiver around the end on two of their first three running plays.   They sent the Giants a memo saying "if you don't protect the flank, we're going to run there."  Bills should be getting the ball to people with speed - Diggs, Sanders, Beasley, McKenzie, Breida, on plays that go wide.   Bills are good at getting blockers out in front of Allen when he takes designed runs; why don't they get blockers on the edge like that for the speed guys?   

 

So, bottom line, I think there's more that can be done, and I think it's on Daboll.  And the line.   

[dorquemada]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

I like these comments, and generally agree, except with the overall conclusion that the Bills can run the ball.   I'm not so sure about that.  The reason is there never seem to be holes or decent seams to run through.  The backs always find a mass of bodies in front of them, and no good spots to cut back to.  The Bills run those outside zone plays sometimes, and nothing opens up.  

 

 

 

How many more times are we going to get to watch Moss slowly approach the line and gently bounce backwards off whichever OL is in front of him?

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Groin said:

Was wondering if you were going to take the week off after that debacle.

Three hours in the car after the game, and a stop for dinner.  Check into the hotel and attend to some personal matters Sunday night.  Up and driving four hours Monday, then a visit to the doctor and a little grocery shopping.  Dinner, turn on the game and write the review.   

 

 

2 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

How many more times are we going to get to watch Moss slowly approach the line and gently bounce backwards off whichever OL is in front of him?

Well, the way Daboll calls the plays, only a couple of times a game!

[dorquemada]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

 

Well, the way Daboll calls the plays, only a couple of times a game!

 

Lol.  Like he's designing run plays to fail so he can say i told you so now let me get back to having josh throw into triple coverage

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Lol.  Like he's designing run plays to fail so he can say i told you so now let me get back to having josh throw into triple coverage

You know, I'm even okay with Josh throwing into, well, double coverage, if he has a clean pocket and is just standing there finding the right target.   He can get the ball into tight places.   But when he's about to get hammered by one guy or another and throwing into coverage, that's not a good formula. 

[BuffaloMatt]

11 hours ago, HappyDays said:

The Bills CAN run, Daboll just refuses to try. Breida is an explosive runner. McKenzie is explosive on jet sweeps. Singletary is limited but has shown some shiftiness in open space in recent weeks. But Daboll seemingly only calls run plays to fill his minimum quota for the week. Breida broke open a drive for us yesterday when we desperately needed one. Daboll then put Moss on the field and the drive predictably stalled out. The Bills lacked speed on their offense last year. They added a RB with elite speed and have inexplicably refused to use him.

 

I don't think Daboll truly believes in running the ball. He thinks we can live and die on the same old 20 yard pass plays, and if the o-line doesn't hold up long enough for the routes to develop it's not his fault. Forget running the ball, we'll keep using the same crossing routes and deep hitches. An occasional half hearted screen to fill that quota. Run Beasley and his bruised ribs into heavy traffic and ask him to make tough catches. That stuff worked so well last year, right? Daboll needs to learn - it's crazy that he doesn't already know this - that every season is a new team. He thought he'd just roll back the same offense with no changes and surely it would work. I guess he forgot that there are coaches on the other sideline that have access to last year's tape.

WELL SAID. Sometimes you have to get creative and try to run the ball. And it may come in the form of swing pass, screens etc. Rams and SF notorious for running out of different looks. 

[clayboy54]

41 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I like these comments, and generally agree, except with the overall conclusion that the Bills can run the ball.   I'm not so sure about that.  The reason is there never seem to be holes or decent seams to run through.  The backs always find a mass of bodies in front of them, and no good spots to cut back to.  The Bills run those outside zone plays sometimes, and nothing opens up.  

 

I do think, however, that there is some truth to the notion that regardless, you have to keep on running it.  You have to give the ball to your backs 20 times a game and pound them in there, even if they're getting 3 yards a carry, because just the fact that the backs are getting the ball every third snap will help keep the defense honest.  Then, if you're right and I'm wrong, they'll spring some runs just by virtue of having tried so often.   Plus, the defense naturally will react to the run fake.  

 

I agree about lack of speed.   And I really agree about getting the ball wide.   Bucs opened last night running a receiver around the end on two of their first three running plays.   They sent the Giants a memo saying "if you don't protect the flank, we're going to run there."  Bills should be getting the ball to people with speed - Diggs, Sanders, Beasley, McKenzie, Breida, on plays that go wide.   Bills are good at getting blockers out in front of Allen when he takes designed runs; why don't they get blockers on the edge like that for the speed guys?   

 

So, bottom line, I think there's more that can be done, and I think it's on Daboll.  And the line.   

Your article this week is spot on, Shaw. Although, as you say above that they can't run effectively may be true, we'll never know because in order to be successful running, you have to get the defense to buy into biting up to stop it. Then as you know, you trap and use misdirection to make it successful. In essence, you have to run a good amount to make running work.

 

Additionally as you know, the OL has to be committed to the run scheme and alter their technique accordingly. Maybe our OL guys would be good at it, but we'll again never know. You just can't be successful running from a pass pro OL scheme. Since we've proven that we are not a great line in pass pro, we'd have little risk to change it up and give it a try. Heck, JA17 would be in no more peril passing from a run-blocking scheme than he already is with our poor pass pro.

 

Finally as you also know, the players just do what they're asked to do. They don't design the scheme or call the plays. The failure is on coaching. Let me ask you, what has changed from last year to this year insofar as coaching is concerned? I don't know anything behind the scenes anymore, but maybe you do. From a distance, I say DORSEY. Nothing else has changed. Maybe it's a Peter Principle deal, where passing game coordinator is over his head. Then again, maybe it's something altogether different. Regardless, I don't buy that everyone else in the league has us figured out, (except the JETS). It's gotta be something else, and it's affected this team from top to bottom.

Edited November 23, 2021 by clayboy54