Serious question; what causes a team to pancake like this?

[KeLLy1278]

10 minutes ago, Sugar High JA17 said:

“ we’ll learn from this” “we’ve put this behind us” “we’ll watch the tape” “ it’s all correctable” “ just need to execute” “ back to fundamentals”.👏👏👏

“We need to have a winner’s mentality” 

“We can’t allow 286 yards on the ground”

”The penalties?  Yeah we can’t have that”

“Need better fundamentals”

“Taking care of the ball.  Up front and on defense.”

”I believe that we are a physical football team”

 

Is this team coached at all? Everything I hear out of Sean’s mouth is “We need to be this, this and that.”  He also seems like he’s on Valium..  why does it seem like the fans care more than he does?  Shouldn’t it be the other way around?  Does anyone here think that this team will turn things around against the Saints on Thursday?  This team is searching for leaders both on the coaching staff and on the field.  I’m growing tired of the weary sleepy eyed post game reactions from Sean.

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, Evian said:

They are a mentally weak team.  Covid has nothing to do with it.  Last year in the middle of Covid they were incredibly mentally tough.  I suspect they read the headlines about how good they were and believed them. 

Last year there was no vaccine.  The rules were the same for everyone and they were united on what they all could do and needed to do to prevent covid from impacting the team.  This year is different.  I said this in another thread, the covid vaccine issue has divided this country, families, workplaces, communities.  It stands to reason it can divide a team.  I do agree that the team is not as mentally strong as we've seen in the past.  It seems that any adversity gets them rattled, particularly on defense...and they start getting frustrated and take stupid penalties.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

My guess is a disjointed locker room.  McDermott could give 2 ***** about the guys on the covid list yesterday.  Very telling when your "leader" reacts the way he did.

I agree. We knew going in that we were probably the least vaccinated team in the NFL. We held our breath and crossed our fingers hoping this wouldn't be an issue.  But now it has. 2 very important starters in the trenches are out 2 games. I'm not starting any commentary on this issue albeit I do believe in the vaccine. But Sean has to figure this out. It may be effecting the locker room. This team always struck me as a family. And I think the kids might be fighting a little bit?

[KeLLy1278]

29 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

My theory is this team isn't interested in a regular season game, they want playoffs

 

Players get this high of how intense a championship game is and thats all they want. Soon it becomes difficult to get up for a 1-8 team mid season. 

 

Its why its so hard to stay at the top and come back after losing and go far in consecutive years

If that’s the case then fire the coaching staff right now because that is the most ridiculous assertion I’ve heard in some time.  Even if a team won multiple Super Bowls.. to pussyfoot around the NFL regular season (which is only 17 games) as an excuse for poor play?  We’re just above the regular season because we consider ourselves a playoff team hence, we’ve committed more penalties than any other team in the league so far.  Boy… I don’t even know what to think with this team anymore.

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, KeLLy1278 said:

“We need to have a winner’s mentality” 

“We can’t allow 286 yards on the ground”

”The penalties?  Yeah we can’t have that”

“Need better fundamentals”

“Taking care of the ball.  Up front and on defense.”

”I believe that we are a physical football team”

 

Is this team coached at all? Everything I hear out of Sean’s mouth is “We need to be this, this and that.”  He also seems like he’s on Valium..  why does it seem like the fans care more than he does?  Shouldn’t it be the other way around?  Does anyone here think that this team will turn things around against the Saints on Thursday?  This team is searching for leaders both on the coaching staff and on the field.  I’m growing tired of the weary sleepy eyed post game reactions from Sean.

Dissecting coach speak is a waste of time.  No coach in any professional league gives specifics.  They also don't single out and rip their players or admit the obvious.  Messaging is consistent and even.

 

Reading anything into it is asinine.

[dorquemada]

12 minutes ago, KeLLy1278 said:

“We need to have a winner’s mentality” 

“We can’t allow 286 yards on the ground”

”The penalties?  Yeah we can’t have that”

“Need better fundamentals”

“Taking care of the ball.  Up front and on defense.”

”I believe that we are a physical football team”

 

Is this team coached at all? Everything I hear out of Sean’s mouth is “We need to be this, this and that.”  He also seems like he’s on Valium..  why does it seem like the fans care more than he does?  Shouldn’t it be the other way around?  Does anyone here think that this team will turn things around against the Saints on Thursday?  This team is searching for leaders both on the coaching staff and on the field.  I’m growing tired of the weary sleepy eyed post game reactions from Sean.

 

Most coaches speak in platitudes but you could use McD to train a Markov Chain generator

 

In truth he doesn't seem to be all that upset that the 'super bowl favorites' are swirling the drain. 

[KeLLy1278]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

Dissecting coach speak is a waste of time.  No coach in any professional league gives specifics.  They also don't single out and rip their players or admit the obvious.  Messaging is consistent and even.

 

Reading anything into it is asinine.

Some coaches do and some do not.  Sean does not.  It’s fine when the team is playing well and giving it a solid effort but it wears really thin when your team waves the white flag before halftime.  Did he even comment on McKenzies fumble?  That may have been the worst fumble of the season by any player in the entire league.  An untouched player fumbles on Sp Teams to sink the team before halftime.  Brutal.  I wonder what Steve Tasker would tell a guy like that. 

[FilthyBeast]

2 hours ago, npeartisgod said:

I am sure most, if not all of us, have never been inside the NFL machine. And I am well aware that it is a business and the business lives on our money. But, I am genuinely curious (amidst another disappointing day after) what causes a team with such an auspicious start to just pancake? Is it inner lockerroom politics? Is it that the players and management are at loggerheads? I get that we don't have a real run threat, and that makes us rather one dimensional, but our D is spectacular, and Josh is the real deal. I would be interested to hear serious opinions or insights.

 

BTW, Brady is on his way to a three game losing streak for the first time in a decade.

 

Go Bills!

 

It's a combination of many things, but the main factor is last year appears to be a fluke in hindsight starting with Josh Allen. And if you go back and look at this team's 'hot streak' to end the year last season who did they really beat:

 

Chargers (rookie QB)

49ers (injury ravaged starting a 3rd string QB)

Steelers (they were in the midst of their collapse)

Broncos (bad team with Drew Lock starting)

Patriots (transition/down year)

Dolphins (Frauds starting rookie QB)

 

And while the Bills started similarly this year they peaked against KC and have proven to be frauds going 1-3 against teams .500 or better and 2-3 in the last 5 games since the KC SB game.

 

At the end of the day this is still a roster lacking real game breaking talent and things are going to from bad to worse the next few years because of all the bad contracts Beane has handed out. Which is why don't be surprised if you finally seem him make big moves and trade away premium draft picks next year like the Rams because of the pressure to win right away and not worrying about the consequences of getting fired or being here with no draft capital/cap space to work with.

[Jrb1979]

I think they are over hyped and are no where near that Super Bowl many thought they were. They have benefited from a weak schedule. Outside of the Chiefs, they haven't beaten a team over .500.  They still can't stop the run for the life of them. It's been going for a few years now, good running teams run all over them. They can't run the ball either. Til those are fixed this will continue to happen. 

[Boatdrinks]

It’s called an off-season, and teams spend it dissecting everything g you did well when you’ve beaten them and made the AFCCG. You have to improve your roster and prepare countermoves in scheme etc. You actually have to be better than the previous year, and thus far the Bills aren’t doing that. It goes for coaches and players. Sustaining success is harder than getting the team from also ran to contender. Teams have honed in on the Bills weaknesses and the coaches haven’t schemed their way out of personnel flaws, opponents defensive strategy etc. A one game slip doesn’t seem too bad, but the rest of the AFC has improved. It may not be good enough , and the Bills have had key players out at positions of little depth. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

37 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

As far as a Cancer in the locker room, I think this is a road worth pursuing.  A couple thoughts:

 

1)  it can easily be more than one person.  Spreading, or started in multiple spots

2)  I think we should identify the symptoms, which would help in finding the cause.  The main symptom seems to be playing without urgency.  The 2nd is mental errors (to your point about the venn diagram upthread)

3)  It is likely someone with influence.  Not somebody that the good, core players would tune-out.  

4)  I would add to your friend's idea about underpaid vets, the idea of over-paid players who dont love the game and have essentially checked-out.

 

So, if this is a thing.   If.  I'd be looking at somebody like

 

-Ed Oliver, who imo doesnt love football.  (a poster today discussed him yukking it up on the sideline while getting steamrolled)

 

-Star.  even though he plays hard, maybe the players dont like his attitude re: covid and doing what's best for his own $$, true or not.  Sometimes players might think "i dont care how good he his, i'm sick of him being here"

 

-AJE (because they made him completely change.  maybe he has a grudge and thinks he'd be better off on a team that would let him be himself), or

 

-considering the biggest problem on the team, someone or two on the O-line.  That unit requires chemistry.  That unit is failing badly.  The rbs know it.  JA17 knows it.  

 

 

No we are on the hunt for the team Cancer?  Now just wild ass guessing and speculation because someone didnt get a vaccine or was laughing on the sidelines. 

 

Yes this is a totally productive exercise.

 

As soon as the Bills start to lose we look for a culprit and then we can demonize him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

FWIW John Wawrow had a take on this.  During the drought years he won my respect by having one of the more fair and balanced perspectives in the press room.

 

 

 

 

 

To be fair, John's point about "no difficulty forcing turnovers" when the opponent is trailing, is somewhat "cause and effect"; opponents who are trailing throw more, push harder for those extra yards, and take more chances - which causes turnovers.

 

Also to be fair, if a team gets frustrated when things don't go their way, that could be a result of coaching - that they lack faith the coaches will help them make adjustments and get right.

[Sugar High JA17]

In the off-season we had two priorities - 

improve the pass rush and fix the running game as we had become too one-dimentional.

From what I've seen we did neither !

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

A friend of your that used to work for the Pats told this insight did he/she?

 

They dont follow the bills close enough but they know there is a cancer on the team.  Yeah and it is clear as day and hard to argue against is it?

 

TBD never fails with post panic posts.

 

This is one of the more absurd things I have read here.

Was it Ernie Adams?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Most coaches speak in platitudes but you could use McD to train a Markov Chain generator

 

In truth he doesn't seem to be all that upset that the 'super bowl favorites' are swirling the drain. 

 

I mean, what do you want him to do?  If he tore his shirt and gashed his chest bloody and screamed, would that be more impressive?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

44 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

Last year there was no vaccine.  The rules were the same for everyone and they were united on what they all could do and needed to do to prevent covid from impacting the team.  This year is different.  I said this in another thread, the covid vaccine issue has divided this country, families, workplaces, communities.  It stands to reason it can divide a team.  I do agree that the team is not as mentally strong as we've seen in the past.  It seems that any adversity gets them rattled, particularly on defense...and they start getting frustrated and take stupid penalties.

 

The point is, every team is dealing with this including several very successful teams. 

[bigK14094]

Lots of second contracts here, these guys are somewhat fat and happy now.  Not that  they aren't PRO's, but, just not viscerally motivated.

[Evian]

46 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

Last year there was no vaccine.  The rules were the same for everyone and they were united on what they all could do and needed to do to prevent covid from impacting the team.  This year is different.  I said this in another thread, the covid vaccine issue has divided this country, families, workplaces, communities.  It stands to reason it can divide a team.  I do agree that the team is not as mentally strong as we've seen in the past.  It seems that any adversity gets them rattled, particularly on defense...and they start getting frustrated and take stupid penalties.

 

Nonsense. 95+ % of the Bills are vaccinated. 100% of the staff. Nobody cares except idiots in the media and on social media. The Bills are losing because they are soft. This is what happens when a team reads the headlines after they blowout garbage teams. They lead the league in penalties and they get pushed around by physical teams. This team has real line problems. When 95% of the locker room is vaccinated nobody cares. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Evian said:

 

Nonsense. 95+ % of the Bills are vaccinated. 100% of the staff. Nobody cares except idiots in the media and on social media. The Bills are losing because they are soft. This is what happens when a team reads the headlines after they blowout garbage teams. They lead the league in penalties and they get pushed around by physical teams. This team has real line problems. When 95% of the locker room is vaccinated nobody cares. 

 

Source?  Because that doesn't match McDermott's "single digits" or Beane's "91%"

 

I do think the source of the problems is likely to be elsewhere.

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, npeartisgod said:

I am sure most, if not all of us, have never been inside the NFL machine. And I am well aware that it is a business and the business lives on our money. But, I am genuinely curious (amidst another disappointing day after) what causes a team with such an auspicious start to just pancake? Is it inner lockerroom politics? Is it that the players and management are at loggerheads? I get that we don't have a real run threat, and that makes us rather one dimensional, but our D is spectacular, and Josh is the real deal. I would be interested to hear serious opinions or insights.

 

BTW, Brady is on his way to a three game losing streak for the first time in a decade.

 

Go Bills!

In our losses both our lines were physically dominated by the opposition.  And there's not much to do about that right now.