Can we discuss our premium defensive draft picks?

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, 727Bills said:

I'm talking about this game and how one or two players being out shouldnt have our d collapse... It has zero to do with the D as a whole compared to last year.

 

Even last year with a worse defense we did better against Henry and the Titans without Star then we did without Star this year!

 

We have no depth this year at DT and that is on the GM or the coaches for a crappy game plan knowing your best run stuffing DL is out and you cant put together a plan like last year against the Titans when that same DL man was out . 

 

But you are ignoring a SUBSTANTIAL amount of context from the game.

 

First drive, could have been stopped on 3rd and 2, they ran it right up the middle for 3 yards.  You telling me Star doesn't give them a better chance to get off the field?

 

Bills first drive...3rd and 2, Josh out on the run about easily pick up the first...play blown dead, false start.  Next play Holding...becomes 3rd and 18 which leads to Allen INT on a play Davis was being big time held by his defender while trying to come back for the ball allowing the other CB to step in front and intercept the ball.  

 

McKenzie fumble gives them a free TD.  

 

Other times we stopped them on 3rd down and had penalties undo it.  

 

You guys want to all look at the scoreboard and put the sole blame on the defense.  We were missing 2 important players on our D, this was already going to be a tough game.  But what we can NOT do is continuously shoot our selves in the foot.  That is what was the bigger factor today...we let the game get away because of stupid mistakes we committed on both sides of the ball.  

 

And even with all that, offense had a shot to put up points on back to back drives to end and start the half.  Dumb mistakes again killed us, including a ton of drops and instead of being a one score game, it remained a 3 score game because we couldn't put points on the board.  

 

So piss and moan all you guys want, but the loss of Star and Edmunds was felt today...and more importantly, our OWN MISTAKES did us in way more than anything else.  And that is something to be concerned about, because we have had a real problem with beating ourselves lately.  

[Mopreme]

42 minutes ago, McBean said:

Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham, Eddie O..

 

Butler and Addison signings. 
 

What happened today can’t happen whenever you’ve spent this much on that side of the ball. To make things worse, we have neglected our offensive weapons.
 

I’m not going to freak out over today. It was ugly. I still think we go deep into the playoffs, but very disappointing seeing us get bullied like we were today folks.

Premium? How about low end. 

[whorlnut]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But you are ignoring a SUBSTANTIAL amount of context from the game.

 

First drive, could have been stopped on 3rd and 2, they ran it right up the middle for 3 yards.  You telling me Star doesn't give them a better chance to get off the field?

 

Bills first drive...3rd and 2, Josh out on the run about easily pick up the first...play blown dead, false start.  Next play Holding...becomes 3rd and 18 which leads to Allen INT on a play Davis was being big time held by his defender while trying to come back for the ball allowing the other CB to step in front and intercept the ball.  

 

McKenzie fumble gives them a free TD.  

 

Other times we stopped them on 3rd down and had penalties undo it.  

 

You guys want to all look at the scoreboard and put the sole blame on the defense.  We were missing 2 important players on our D, this was already going to be a tough game.  But what we can NOT do is continuously shoot our selves in the foot.  That is what was the bigger factor today...we let the game get away because of stupid mistakes we committed on both sides of the ball.  

 

And even with all that, offense had a shot to put up points on back to back drives to end and start the half.  Dumb mistakes again killed us, including a ton of drops and instead of being a one score game, it remained a 3 score game because we couldn't put points on the board.  

 

So piss and moan all you guys want, but the loss of Star and Edmunds was felt today...and more importantly, our OWN MISTAKES did us in way more than anything else.  And that is something to be concerned about, because we have had a real problem with beating ourselves lately.  

Well the loss of Brown caused us to shuffle the entire right side of the offensive line. This wasn’t just about losses on defense. 

[727Bills]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But you are ignoring a SUBSTANTIAL amount of context from the game.

 

First drive, could have been stopped on 3rd and 2, they ran it right up the middle for 3 yards.  You telling me Star doesn't give them a better chance to get off the field?

 

Bills first drive...3rd and 2, Josh out on the run about easily pick up the first...play blown dead, false start.  Next play Holding...becomes 3rd and 18 which leads to Allen INT on a play Davis was being big time held by his defender while trying to come back for the ball allowing the other CB to step in front and intercept the ball.  

 

McKenzie fumble gives them a free TD.  

 

Other times we stopped them on 3rd down and had penalties undo it.  

 

You guys want to all look at the scoreboard and put the sole blame on the defense.  We were missing 2 important players on our D, this was already going to be a tough game.  But what we can NOT do is continuously shoot our selves in the foot.  That is what was the bigger factor today...we let the game get away because of stupid mistakes we committed on both sides of the ball.  

 

And even with all that, offense had a shot to put up points on back to back drives to end and start the half.  Dumb mistakes again killed us, including a ton of drops and instead of being a one score game, it remained a 3 score game because we couldn't put points on the board.  

 

So piss and moan all you guys want, but the loss of Star and Edmunds was felt today...and more importantly, our OWN MISTAKES did us in way more than anything else.  And that is something to be concerned about, because we have had a real problem with beating ourselves lately.

Where did I say I blamed the entire defense for the loss, all I said is the defense shouldn't completely freaking crumble (they weren't even competitive) when two players go out (I blamed lack of depth for for the reason the D was atrocious, not for the reason we lost the game.)  Plenty of blame to go around everywhere for the loss. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by 727Bills

[Nextmanup]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

And that is something to be concerned about, because we have had a real problem with beating ourselves lately

This is what concerns me as much as anything right now.

 

We've looked like a sloppy, poor-executing, penalty taking lousy 3 or 4 win team lately.

 

We did NOT look like that earlier in the year or on our big winning streak at the end of last year.

 

 

[BillsFan130]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But you are ignoring a SUBSTANTIAL amount of context from the game.

 

First drive, could have been stopped on 3rd and 2, they ran it right up the middle for 3 yards.  You telling me Star doesn't give them a better chance to get off the field?

 

Bills first drive...3rd and 2, Josh out on the run about easily pick up the first...play blown dead, false start.  Next play Holding...becomes 3rd and 18 which leads to Allen INT on a play Davis was being big time held by his defender while trying to come back for the ball allowing the other CB to step in front and intercept the ball.  

 

McKenzie fumble gives them a free TD.  

 

Other times we stopped them on 3rd down and had penalties undo it.  

 

You guys want to all look at the scoreboard and put the sole blame on the defense.  We were missing 2 important players on our D, this was already going to be a tough game.  But what we can NOT do is continuously shoot our selves in the foot.  That is what was the bigger factor today...we let the game get away because of stupid mistakes we committed on both sides of the ball.  

 

And even with all that, offense had a shot to put up points on back to back drives to end and start the half.  Dumb mistakes again killed us, including a ton of drops and instead of being a one score game, it remained a 3 score game because we couldn't put points on the board.  

 

So piss and moan all you guys want, but the loss of Star and Edmunds was felt today...and more importantly, our OWN MISTAKES did us in way more than anything else.  And that is something to be concerned about, because we have had a real problem with beating ourselves lately.  

Every team has injuries and worse injuries than what the bills have now.

 

You can't excuse a 41-15 loss at home because of a few injuries.

 

Mistakes definitely killed us for sure, but at the end of the day the bills just got whipped in the trenches and that was the reason the colts crushed them

 

[Motor26]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

This is what concerns me as much as anything right now.

 

We've looked like a sloppy, poor-executing, penalty taking lousy 3 or 4 win team lately.

 

We did NOT look like that earlier in the year or on our big winning streak at the end of last year.

 

 

Yes. So many times it seems over the past 3 losses the D is about to get off the field on 3rd down and they commit some dumb penalty. Or it will be 3rd and long and they’ll give up a ridiculous conversion. Then on offense it’s 3rd and short and they false start or get a dumb holding penalty on a big play, Josh taking super long sacks knocking them out of field goal range. Need to clean their game up.

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, 727Bills said:

Where did I say I blamed the entire defense for the loss, all I said is the defense shouldn't completely freaking crumble (they weren't even competitive) when two players go out.  Plenty of blame to go around everywhere for the loss. 

 

Wrong...most defenses struggle more when missing their key DL player that sets up McD and Fraziers defense, not to mention their captain of the defense at MLB.  

 

It was the mental mistakes all 3 phases made today that cost us this game though.

6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Every team has injuries and worse injuries than what the bills have now.

 

You can't excuse a 41-15 loss at home because of a few injuries.

 

Mistakes definitely killed us for sure, but at the end of the day the bills just got whipped in the trenches and that was the reason the colts crushed them

 

 

No disrespect but I hate the "other teams have injuries" statement.  No injuries are equal, no team is built the same way.  And most teams with key injuries are having their own struggles, so its never even an accurate statement.  

[BillsFan130]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Wrong...most defenses struggle more when missing their key DL player that sets up McD and Fraziers defense, not to mention their captain of the defense at MLB.  

 

It was the mental mistakes all 3 phases made today that cost us this game though.

 

No disrespect but I hate the "other teams have injuries" statement.  No injuries are equal, no team is built the same way.  And most teams with key injuries are having their own struggles, so its never even an accurate statement.  

 

That's on Brandon Beane then if he doesn't have enough depth to overcome certain injuries.

 

It's the NFL. You are going to have to have injuries at key spots and you have to overcome them if you want to make a super bowl run.

 

Every team goes through this and has KEY injuries. 
 

You may not like me saying that, but its the truth.

[Mango]

The issue is we are over extended and have kept over extending in a few groups that haven’t panned out and also need fixing. 
 

The defensive unit as a whole is great (not today) but the DL alone is meh. But one of the most expensive in the league. We keep 10 DT’s, so the only way to fix it is to pull some away, and replace with something better through draft our FA. But we are a little tight against the cap next year. 
 

The same thing with the OL. Except we haven’t invested much through the draft. Just in cash. 
 

Both units will roll over to how we address the secondary and LB. 
 

If the 5th most expensive OL and 2nd most expensive DL played like the 5th and 2nd best units in the league, we wouldn’t be talking about this at all. And the idea of drafting an Edmunds replacement because of cash wouldn’t hurt so bad. Or we could think about taking a corner high to replace Wallace. But that would be a terrible idea because we need a lot of help at OG and a Vita Vea type player on already expensive units. 
 

Beane talked a lot about cap hell, but Beane has sort of put us in cap purgatory. 

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

 

That's on Brandon Beane then if he doesn't have enough depth to overcome certain injuries.

 

It's the NFL. You are going to have to have injuries at key spots and you have to overcome them if you want to make a super bowl run.

 

Every team goes through this and has KEY injuries. 
 

You may not like me saying that, but its the truth.

People need to stop with the cliche “every team has injuries”.  It’s ridiculous statement, because those teams struggle too.  
 

That blanket statement is just thrown around without any facts.  It’s a fan myth.  Facts are, when teams lose key players games get harder to win.  It’s been proven time in and time again.  Occasionally injuries lead to teams finding new stars and do better than others at times.  
 

But no team is just stacked with a full starting caliber roster backing up their starters.  

Edited November 21, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Process said:

McBeane is in completely over his head when it comes to building both the o line and d line. 

 

No idea what he's doing. 

Holding onto Ford, Butler, re-signing Bobby Hart is proof enough for me

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, gonzo1105 said:

I tend to agree for as much credit as Beane gets, if he doesn’t hit on Allen this team would be terrible. They are way to finesse of a team on both sides. 
 

I get that to an extent that the game has become more finesse but man they get worked by teams that have any physicality. 

 

I have said this consistently. He has picked 1 true, proven, difference maker - Josh Allen. He is very good at getting starting calibre NFL players.... but the teams that win it all have difference makers. We have three on the roster. One McDermott drafted, one we traded for and only one Beane drafted.

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Number 1 defense across the board entering today.  Suddenly now its terrible according to this thread while cleverly over looking that we were missing 2 critical players on defense in Edmunds and ESPECIALLY Star (against a run dominant team) and also continuously shot ourselves in the foot on both sides of the ball with bad penalties and turnovers?

 

Today was way more about not having our size in the middle of the field, dumb penalties, and dumb mental errors.

 

 

The problem is not having anyone who can fill their roles in any competent type of way. I see Vernon Butler standing up right after every play. Never getting up off of a pile

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

Stop with the cliche “every team has injuries”.  It’s ridiculous statement, because those teams struggle too.  
 

That blanket statement is just thrown around without any facts.  It’s a fan myth.  Facts are, when teams lose key players games get harder to win.  It’s been proven time in and time again.  Occasionally injuries lead to teams finding new stars and do better than others at times.  
 

But no team is just stacked with a full starting caliber roster backing up their starters.  

Baltimore is 7-3 without Lamar for a game, their top 3 RBs all year, their top corner all year, and way more.

 

Its not a ridiculous statement at all.

 

You can pretend all you want that the bills lost this game because of no star or Edmunds, but they would have gotten thrashed even with those guys in the lineup.

 

They lost to Pitts,  Jax and Tenn with those guys. Minus star for the Pitts game.

 

The common dominator?

 

Dominated in the trenches. Just like today.

 

 

[McBean]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have said this consistently. He has picked 1 true, proven, difference maker - Josh Allen. He is very good at getting starting calibre NFL players.... but the teams that win it all have difference makers. We have three on the roster. One McDermott drafted, one we traded for and only one Beane drafted.

This right here is spot on everybody.

 

Best post I’ve read on here in awhile.

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Baltimore is 7-3 without Lamar for a game, their top 3 RBs all year, their top corner all year, and way more.

 

Its not a ridiculous statement at all.

 

You can pretend all you want that the bills lost this game because of no star or Edmunds, but they would have gotten thrashed even with those guys in the lineup.

 

They lost to Pitts,  Jax and Tenn with those guys. Minus star for the Pitts game.

 

The common dominator?

 

Dominated in the trenches. Just like today.

 

 

Did you watch the Baltimore games?  They had some low percentage miraculous wins. 
 

They won because they DID NOT shoot themselves in the foot like we keep doing every game.  It’s NOT their depth and several of those games were against bad teams they barely beat.

 

Again, your statement is cliche, is proven wrong by every other team in the league and every season.  
 

You act like all teams missing important players just always keep winning.  What happened to the Titans today?  Oh yeah, they lost to Tyrod Taylor and the Texans.  I mean there are a plethora more examples of good teams dropping games while missing important players.  
 

So stop with this cliche, it’s more often false than correct.  

 

 

[Brand J]

How did the #1 defense play when going against a competent offense? Here’s the thing, we don’t need all of our 2nd round picks to be DK Metcalf, JK Dobbins, Creed Humphrey, etc., but they HAVE to produce better than the Fords, Epenesas, and Bashams of the world.

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

It is the guy calling it. He called Nickel the whole game. He does not adjust to what teams are doing Lesile Frazier, is such a horrible coordinator I am sick and tired of saying it.

Just now, JayBaller10 said:

How did the #1 defense play when going against a competent offense? Here’s the thing, we don’t need all of our 2nd round picks to be DK Metcalf, JK Dobbins, Creed Humphrey, etc., but they HAVE to produce better than the Fords, Epenesas, and Bashams of the world.

We don't know about Epenesas, and Bashams because they don't play.

[Brand J]

2 minutes ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

We don't know about Epenesas, and Bashams because they don't play.

Id argue the fact they DON’T play speaks volumes. If they were difference makers they wouldn’t be healthy scratches or conceding reps to older veterans who aren’t exactly lighting up the field.