Which Party Has More "Moderate" Members, Democrats or Republicans?

[Tiberius]

13 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Depends on what you consider moderate...😉

Right. It can be defined in different ways. But generally the ability to work across party lines, to work inside the system and to put country over party. 

[Big Blitz]

I just picked up my latest book - "Great Moderates in American History."

 

 

I'll let you know how it is.  It's only 2 pages long I should be able to report soon.  

[Orlando Buffalo]

7 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Right. It can be defined in different ways. But generally the ability to work across party lines, to work inside the system and to put country over party. 

Well by that standard it is clearly Republicans, Dems won't even vote for clearly qualified Supreme Court justices if they have different political thoughts. 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

                                             

 

 

 

 

 

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[Jauronimo]

On 11/18/2021 at 12:16 PM, billsfan1959 said:

 

I never saw the Democratic party condemn a single riot in the streets last year. Hell, they wouldn't even acknowledge violence in those riots in spite of the open looting, arson, assault, etc....

 

But they came unglued over the riot at the US Capitol...

Meanwhile Republicans clutched their pearls over lawlessness, rioting, thugs, and property destruction and have written off the events at the Capitol as a non-event.  There's not an ounce of honesty in our political discourse.  

[billsfan1959]

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Meanwhile Republicans clutched their pearls over lawlessness, rioting, thugs, and property destruction and have written off the events at the Capitol as a non-event.  There's not an ounce of honesty in our political discourse.  

Not all of us. I condemn it wherever I see it. I believe I stated it in a previous post. I try to stay consistent in my views.

[JaCrispy]

On 11/19/2021 at 9:24 AM, Tiberius said:

Right. It can be defined in different ways. But generally the ability to work across party lines, to work inside the system and to put country over party. 

I like this type of thinking...but unfortunately, the parties are so far apart, they no longer share the same ideals anymore...

 

There was a time when both parties agreed on the founding of the country, believed in free speech, civil rights, working towards a color blind society, and that men were not capable of getting pregnant...sadly, this is no longer the case...

 

Both parties literally believe in the complete opposite things now- like foreign adversaries (except they share the same land)...and the parties are so big, and have so much money, their own survival and dominance seems to come before country- the exact fear that Washington wrote about in his farewell address...

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by JaCrispy

[SCBills]

What even is moderate anymore?  
 

I used to be an Independent that was open to M4A and went to annual Pride events. 
 

These last few years have turned me into a moderate Republican (policy wise) that will never vote for a Dem in this current climate and wants corporate media to burn. 
 

 

[JaCrispy]

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

What even is moderate anymore?  
 

I used to be an Independent that was open to M4A and went to annual Pride events. 
 

These last few years have turned me into a moderate Republican (policy wise) that will never vote for a Dem in this current climate and wants corporate media to burn. 
 

 

Depends who you ask...A Marxist will say they are the moderates and Liberals are white supremacists...Just like conservatives will say they are the  moderates and a Liberals are communists...

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by JaCrispy

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

On 11/19/2021 at 6:01 AM, GaryPinC said:

Last year was such an insane year.  It was absolutely appalling in places like Portland the abandonment of law, order, and justice for those protests and the lack of outrage and action by democratic leadership.

 

It was equally appalling Trump's behavior post election, trying to undermine the American process and his role in fomenting and not preventing January 6.  Every Republican should have been outraged.

 

But the most appalling and un-American thing in all this is both side's cowardice in admitting fault while more fervently pointing the finger at the other side's transgressions.  This is what our enemies want.

 

I'm glad you can admit you don't support Jan 6.  Thank you that's a start.  Now, can you admit Trump's cowardice in taking action to prevent that riot is THE SAME EXACT COWARDICE as the Portland mayor and leadership for their riots?

I’m a meet in the middle guy on most issues, though I have things that are important to me and I dig in.  The people involved in violence and the assault on the Capitol should be prosecuted in accordance with the law.  Whomever was responsible for security of our elected officials—cretins though they often seem to be—should be relieved of their duties and be charged criminally if such charges are warranted.  
 

It seems to me, however, that a conversation about Trump’s actions and the “Stop the Steal” movement broadly is incomplete without acknowledgement of the assault and attempt to undermine the American process that took place during the Russia saga.   
 

Put another way, it’s all well and good to hilight finger-pointing and division, but honest dialogue requires honesty.  “Stop the steal” likely never happens without the “Trump = coup”, “Trump = treason” and the attempt to remove him from office.  
 

 

[GaryPinC]

On 11/20/2021 at 7:57 AM, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I’m a meet in the middle guy on most issues, though I have things that are important to me and I dig in.  The people involved in violence and the assault on the Capitol should be prosecuted in accordance with the law.  Whomever was responsible for security of our elected officials—cretins though they often seem to be—should be relieved of their duties and be charged criminally if such charges are warranted.  
 

It seems to me, however, that a conversation about Trump’s actions and the “Stop the Steal” movement broadly is incomplete without acknowledgement of the assault and attempt to undermine the American process that took place during the Russia saga.   
 

Put another way, it’s all well and good to hilight finger-pointing and division, but honest dialogue requires honesty.  “Stop the steal” likely never happens without the “Trump = coup”, “Trump = treason” and the attempt to remove him from office.  
 

 

You're absolutely right about Russiagate, I hope they nail involved political operatives to the wall just as I hope they do the same for the "stop the steal".

 

I guess I differ from you in that I have no problem looking at the two as separate events, but respect the validity of your point.   I believe the "stop the steal" ploy would have been employed regardless, Russiagate just made it more believable (and fervently so) to more people.  

 

[T master]

On 11/18/2021 at 11:56 AM, Tiberius said:

Easily it's the Democrats and not the party that kicks people out for wanting to condemn a riot and attack on National Legislature. 

 

Democrats are the true American Party 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸❤️

 

But those democratic leaders of liberal Cities that allow for weeks and months in some cases so called "Peaceful Demonstrations" that involved the peaceful burning down entire blocks of cities along with shootings that put innocent business owners & other tax paying citizens in hospitals shouldn't apply .

 

And then when they break into federally or local gov't owned properties such as police stations and take them over in a "Peaceful Demonstration" shouldn't be part of the discussion because ??? 

 

Let me guess those were moderate members of the Democratic party upholding the beliefs of the democratic party ??

 

 

[Tiberius]

4 minutes ago, T master said:

 

But those democratic leaders of liberal Cities that allow for weeks and months in some cases so called "Peaceful Demonstrations" that involved the peaceful burning down entire blocks of cities along with shootings that put innocent business owners & other tax paying citizens in hospitals shouldn't apply .

 

And then when they break into federally or local gov't owned properties such as police stations and take them over in a "Peaceful Demonstration" shouldn't be part of the discussion because ??? 

 

Let me guess those were moderate members of the Democratic party upholding the beliefs of the democratic party ??

 

 

The right to protest is guaranteed by the Constitution. Sometimes they get out of hand, but that happens.. At least they were not trying to overturn the results of a fair and well run election like the anti-moderate Republicans were doing. 

 

See, you proved my point for me  

[Doc]

On 11/20/2021 at 7:57 AM, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I’m a meet in the middle guy on most issues, though I have things that are important to me and I dig in.  The people involved in violence and the assault on the Capitol should be prosecuted in accordance with the law.  Whomever was responsible for security of our elected officials—cretins though they often seem to be—should be relieved of their duties and be charged criminally if such charges are warranted.  
 

It seems to me, however, that a conversation about Trump’s actions and the “Stop the Steal” movement broadly is incomplete without acknowledgement of the assault and attempt to undermine the American process that took place during the Russia saga.   
 

Put another way, it’s all well and good to hilight finger-pointing and division, but honest dialogue requires honesty.  “Stop the steal” likely never happens without the “Trump = coup”, “Trump = treason” and the attempt to remove him from office. 

 

I was going to post something similar.  And Trump told his supporters to "peacefully and patriotically" protest at the Capitol, which is their right.  If they heard something else (what should he have also said, "don't break into the Capitol"?  How would that have looked/sounded?), that's on them.  If you want to hold pols accountable for any idiotic actions taken by their supporters, that's a slippery slope that will take down a lot of people.

[Tiberius]

Just now, Doc said:

 

I was going to post something similar.  And Trump told his supporters to "peacefully and patriotically" protest at the Capitol, which is their right.  If they heard something else (what should he have also said, "don't break into the Capitol"?  How would that have looked/sounded?), that's on them.  If you want to hold pols accountable for any idiotic actions taken by their supporters, that's a slippery slope that will take down a lot of people.

He also told them to take the country back, the election had been stolen, and that he was going to join them at the Capital. He organized and sent a violent mob to attack the capital. He won't get in trouble, of course. Rigged system 

Just like the rigged system let him get away with conspiring with murderous Putin 

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

He also told them to take the country back, the election had been stolen, and that he was going to join them at the Capital. He organized and sent a violent mob to attack the capital. He won't get in trouble, of course. Rigged system 

Just like the rigged system let him get away with conspiring with murderous Putin 

 

So why didn't they finish the job that day?  Why did they leave on their own?  It was a bunch of morons who broke into the Capitol and then got bored and left.  They should be prosecuted for what is appropriate.  But there needs to be proof that Trump or anyone else instructed them to break into the Capitol.

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

So why didn't they finish the job that day?  Why did they leave on their own?  It was a bunch of morons who broke into the Capitol and then got bored and left.  They should be prosecuted for what is appropriate.  But there needs to be proof that Trump or anyone else instructed them to break into the Capitol.

They left because they couldn't win. Morons, yes, no doubt. And who stirred them up with lies? Trump 

[BillStime]

17 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

So why didn't they finish the job that day?  Why did they leave on their own?  It was a bunch of morons who broke into the Capitol and then got bored and left.  They should be prosecuted for what is appropriate.  But there needs to be proof that Trump or any

one else instructed them to break into the Capitol.

 

They couldn't find Pence.

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

26 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

You're absolutely right about Russiagate, I hope they nail involved political operatives to the wall just as I hope they do the same for the "stop the steal".

 

I guess I differ from you in that I have no problem looking at the two as separate events, but respect the validity of your point.   I believe the "stop the steal" ploy would have been employed regardless, Russiagate just made it more believable (and fervently so) to more people.  

 

The perpetrators of the Russia scam reside in the halls of Congress.  
 

 I believe the Dems ran the Russia scam because they knew they could.  They had nothing to get Trump on, and they knew it.  It’s why they morphed from “collusion” —a meaningless word legally— to “obstruction”.   Both, as we know, failed miserably with Mueller, but both worked to satisfy the base.  
 

People love a good spy novel, and even though they had nothing to unseat the President, there was zero fallout from the people they scammed.  In this regard, moderate and hard core Dems who supported the probe and simply shrugged hair collective shoulders when the matter is ended did more to tarnish fairness and democracy than any fake Shaman in a fake fur coat could ever do. 
 

On to “Stop the steal.”  as a political strategy. (To clarify here, I am not speaking of the people who entered the Capital).  In the big picture, at worst, it’s marketing of a political campaign just like the Russia scam.   

 

I also believe that regardless of how the election played out, some version of Stop the Steal was coming.  Key political figures including Warren and Klobucher set the stage for that in 2019. 
 

 

 

 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

They left because they couldn't win. Morons, yes, no doubt. And who stirred them up with lies? Trump 

 

So with no weapons, they thought they could win?  And only once inside realized they couldn't? 

 

Look, even if you were to believe that, it just goes to show that they were, in fact, morons.  There was no chance they could do anything meaningful without proper planning and major weapons.  There's no defending their actions, but trying to make it more than it was is ridiculous, but that's the MO of the Dems for you: take real or fabricated stories and make them to be as bad or worse than some terrible historical event.  As I said, if there's any evidence that someone told them to break into the Capitol (and we'd have heard by now), I'm all ears.

 

And again if you want to hold pols accountable for any bad actions by their followers, then a lot of Dems are culpable for the riots last year.  Are you willing to hold them accountable?  If not then there's no point in any further discussion.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Doc