Spencer Brown placed on Covid List [Edit: Thurs 11/18]

[Patience]

3 hours ago, klos63 said:

Saying we need good lineman refutes the notion that you think we could get away with bad lineman.  It just doesn't work that way.  

 

No,  I don't think it creates hesitation on the dline. I honesty think you're trying to fool yourself into thinking that this isn't that big of an issue. 

 

Where did I say it wasn't a big issue?  Where did I say we could "get away with bad linemen?" Reread my posts and then get back to me.  

 

I'm not fooling myself into anything - I'm aware that the team needs to work within the confines of the players we have available.  I know it's a big issue.  You seem to be the one fooling yourself into thinking we can find and/or develop "good linemen" by Sunday.  Of course it'd be ideal to have good linemen to run a screen play - that doesn't take much analysis at all.  But the point is - we do not.  And we need a gameplan with the linemen that are on the roster.  Unless you want to pull "good linemen" from who knows where to execute a different gameplan?  

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

I don’t agree.  They weren’t great in the Tennessee game. 
 

You can’t pin O-line play, good or bad, on a RT over 4 games

top O line after 4 career starts? At RT?

 

no

 

I cant believe you can't see the difference with Brown in.  He is easily the best o linmen on the team right now.  Not only that but him being out changes two spots and puts Cody Ford back on the field.  It's pretty easy to see why Brown is that important.  Keeping Ford off the field alone is night and day.

 

Reposting from goBills404 earlier in the thread...

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Scott7975

[Da webster guy]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I cant believe you can't see the difference with Brown in.  He is easily the best o linmen on the team right now.  Not only that but him being out changes two spots and puts Cody Ford back on the field.  It's pretty easy to see why Brown is that important.  Keeping Ford off the field alone is night and day.

Yeah there's no debate on that.  If Ford wasn't a high pick and such a likeable guy he doesn't make the 53 this year.

Brown seems snakebit with the late start, injury and now this Covid designation.  Not only is he better at RT but Williams graded out well at guard so Spencer really improves 2 spots which is 40% of our entire Oline.

 

Strange but true, this 3rd round rookie with very limited experience is unfortunately a big part of our offense now.

[Big Blitz]

32 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I cant believe you can't see the difference with Brown in.  He is easily the best o linmen on the team right now.  Not only that but him being out changes two spots and puts Cody Ford back on the field.  It's pretty easy to see why Brown is that important.  Keeping Ford off the field alone is night and day.

 

Reposting from goBills404 earlier in the thread...

 

 

 

 

Agree with all this but the Jax game weighs those numbers down dramatically.

 

No Brown definitely hurts.  

 

 

But no Knox was the much bigger factor

[klos63]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

It’s impossible to draw such a conclusion in 4 games out of 9

Not if you were watching.

[klos63]

46 minutes ago, Patience said:

 

Where did I say it wasn't a big issue?  Where did I say we could "get away with bad linemen?" Reread my posts and then get back to me.  

 

I'm not fooling myself into anything - I'm aware that the team needs to work within the confines of the players we have available.  I know it's a big issue.  You seem to be the one fooling yourself into thinking we can find and/or develop "good linemen" by Sunday.  Of course it'd be ideal to have good linemen to run a screen play - that doesn't take much analysis at all.  But the point is - we do not.  And we need a gameplan with the linemen that are on the roster.  Unless you want to pull "good linemen" from who knows where to execute a different gameplan?  

You implied that running more screens and quick passes will help negate the issues of a poor line, so yes, getting away with bad lineman.

 

I never said anything about finding good lineman by sunday, never even thought about something like that.

 

You can't hide bad line play, hopefully they play well enough that Allen has some time to throw the ball and not just dump passes. That won't work.

[Scott7975]

15 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Agree with all this but the Jax game weighs those numbers down dramatically.

 

No Brown definitely hurts.  

 

 

But no Knox was the much bigger factor

 

I agree Knox was also a big factor but Brown essentially changes 3 spots on our oline including himself.

[MasterStrategist]

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Were you watching the games we played with Brown out of the lineup? It was God awful line play. The game plan had no effect on Josh having no protection in front of him every single time he stepped back to pass. Daryl was given an extension for his play at RT last season. This season? He's been so utterly terrible at RT, that they moved him to Guard and started Spencer Brown instead. And when we shifted him back there following Brown's injury - he was even worse!

 

Ford was benched for terrible play, Feliciano was playing terrible and is now on IR. I don't know what Offensive Line you've been watching or what depth chart you're looking at - but I couldn't possibly disagree with your assessment that we have a ton of depth and are capable without Brown any more if I tried.

I was responding to two points:

1. Missing Brown

2. Defense being down, potentially, a few starters

 

My point about depth was more geared toward defense, where we have guys like Harry, Klein, etc who are capable of stepping up.

 

Regarding Brown, yes I watched what our oline did against Jacksonville.  Did you notice, if you watched the game, the playcalling? No balance, it was all shotgun and pass.  Then this past week against the Jets, we go under center much more and present a balanced look.  Also involved Breida more.

 

Clearly missing Brown is a drop off in play, but my point is Daboll could be helping the situation.

 

Williams horrible at Tackle? They moved him inside because getting Brown on the field is their best 5 and Spencer isn't a guard.  Overreact much?  When we shifted him back. he still played solid (missed 1 3rd down block).  Not sure you know what you're watching.  Line isn't going to have success when Daboll calls 50 pass plays and the dline knows what's coming.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I was responding to two points:

1. Missing Brown

2. Defense being down, potentially, a few starters

 

My point about depth was more geared toward defense, where we have guys like Harry, Klein, etc who are capable of stepping up.

 

Regarding Brown, yes I watched what our oline did against Jacksonville.  Did you notice, if you watched the game, the playcalling? No balance, it was all shotgun and pass.  Then this past week against the Jets, we go under center much more and present a balanced look.  Also involved Breida more.

 

Clearly missing Brown is a drop off in play, but my point is Daboll could be helping the situation.

 

Williams horrible at Tackle? They moved him inside because getting Brown on the field is their best 5 and Spencer isn't a guard.  Overreact much?  When we shifted him back. he still played solid (missed 1 3rd down block).  Not sure you know what you're watching.  Line isn't going to have success when Daboll calls 50 pass plays and the dline knows what's coming.

 

Good points. 

 

In support of the points about Jacksonville:

-after the game McDermott called out opponents not respecting our run game, and physicality at the point of attack. 

-Daboll said "you can't just place blame on one player or one unit"

-while the OL played poorly, the fact that our 2nd half drives ended "interception interception punt fumble TOD" (with an overruled fumble on the TOD) was not entirely on the OL.  The first interception may have been a miscommunication/misread between Josh and Beasley, but the others were the reason Josh said "I played like *****"

There were other choices available.

 

So it wasn't all on the OL. 

 

And yes, this past week Daboll used Josh under center to good effect and used more heavy personnel to help the protection and the run game.  I think there's an argument to be made that part of the shaky OL performance from a cast of characters who were OK most of the time last year has to do with other teams being able to pin their ears back and defend either the pass or the run, because from shotgun we overwhelmingly pass, and under center we overwhelmingly run.

 

That's not to say the OL isn't better with Brown in there, and that offensive performance isn't a concern against the Colts, because they're a poor matchup on offense for our D so we'd better be able to score.

 

Williams was NOT playing well at RT.  Neither of our tackles are playing as well as they did last season.

 

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yes.  It's not even up for debate.

 

But OK, outside of Dawkins, Morse and Williams, who would you put above him?

 

Williams is a penalty machine.  He's not better than Brown I guess.

 

But to answer your question specifically, it's hard for me to tell....because it's been difficult to zero in on his play because he's had only 4 starts and only 1 in 4 weeks.  

8 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I cant believe you can't see the difference with Brown in.  He is easily the best o linmen on the team right now.  Not only that but him being out changes two spots and puts Cody Ford back on the field.  It's pretty easy to see why Brown is that important.  Keeping Ford off the field alone is night and day.

 

Reposting from goBills404 earlier in the thread...

 

 

 

If your argument is that Brown's value is in keeping an awful Ford off the field, then...ok.  I guess that's something.

7 hours ago, klos63 said:

Not if you were watching.

 

I blinked and I missed it.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

10 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Were you watching the games we played with Brown out of the lineup? It was God awful line play. The game plan had no effect on Josh having no protection in front of him every single time he stepped back to pass. Daryl was given an extension for his play at RT last season. This season? He's been so utterly terrible at RT, that they moved him to Guard and started Spencer Brown instead. And when we shifted him back there following Brown's injury - he was even worse!

 

Ford was benched for terrible play, Feliciano was playing terrible and is now on IR. I don't know what Offensive Line you've been watching or what depth chart you're looking at - but I couldn't possibly disagree with your assessment that we have a ton of depth and are capable without Brown any more if I tried.

 

THIS. ALL OF THIS. The Colts D Line will eat us alive if Ford sniffs the field. We have serious issues at OL right now at the worst possible time.

[oldmanfan]

I said before the season started we will not win the Lombardi because of Covid and having players miss games because they would not obey protocols and logic.  Unfortunately this seems like it will be the case.  If we lose to the Colts and/or Saints because of our O line issues, or because we are weaker in the run game because Star is out against Taylor on Sunday, we could not just lose a shot at home field but at the division given how the Patriots are playing.

 

I hope the players who miss games through no choice but their own are proud.

[NewEra]

11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Agree with all this but the Jax game weighs those numbers down dramatically.

 

No Brown definitely hurts.  

 

 

But no Knox was the much bigger factor

The jax game should weigh the numbers down.  Jax has one of the worst defenses in the league……and we only scored 6 points.  That should carry weight.  It’s embarrassing 

[jletha]

McD says nobody has been ruled out yet, including Brown. Does that mean hes vaccinated? Otherwise couldnt he be fully ruled out already?

[Chandler#81]

Fingers crossed!🤞

[Process]

3 minutes ago, jletha said:

McD says nobody has been ruled out yet, including Brown. Does that mean hes vaccinated? Otherwise couldnt he be fully ruled out already?

Did he actually say "including Brown"? If not he was probably just referring to injured players. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Williams is a penalty machine.  He's not better than Brown I guess.

 

But to answer your question specifically, it's hard for me to tell....because it's been difficult to zero in on his play because he's had only 4 starts and only 1 in 4 weeks.  

 

Williams has had a total of 3 penalties called on him so far this season, out of 661 snaps.  He's not even close to a "penalty machine."  Brown became the starter at RT because he was ready to start and because moving Williams improved the RG spot.  

 

And don't worry, we don't need you to tell.  You didn't like the pick.  We get it.

[jletha]

6 minutes ago, Process said:

Did he actually say "including Brown"? If not he was probably just referring to injured players. 

No, I just saw this:

 

 

I think it has been updated though that he wont discuss Spencer's vaccination status.