4 Current Players already deserve to be on Bills All-time team!

[Frostbite]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What other Bills QB do you have above him

Kelly and Kemp. Don't get me wrong, Josh is great and i believe he can easily be the best bills qb ever, just think it's hard to say he's the best ever as of today.

[JY422]

1 hour ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Gabe Davis? Our 4th WR is on track to be a Bills all-time great? LOL

Really?? Young, big, fast, great work ethic, great teammate, catches everything thrown his way. He’s got the makings just like Moulds and Stevie did. It took them a few years to become the number 1 but when they were called on they were ready. 
Gabe will be too. 

1 hour ago, KzooMike said:

Wow, we have entered into a new era of dumb with this thread. 

Isn’t this a “Fan Forum” discussion board? New era of dumb? Dang bro… I’m a fan just like you who enjoys talking all things Bills both past and present. 
On second thought, I’m a much better fan than you. I’m not all greased up with bitterness like you apparently are. 
Here’s to health and happiness for you and yours and a little thanksgiving miracle called “kindness.”

 

Go Bills!

[KeLLy1278]

3 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

Right now I would say third best behind Kelly and Kemp. One has 4 Super Bowl appearances the other 2 AFL championships which are the only championships in Bills history.

Thank you. 

[Mikie2times]

6 minutes ago, JY422 said:

 

Isn’t this a “Fan Forum” discussion board? New era of dumb? Dang bro… I’m a fan just like you who enjoys talking all things Bills both past and present. 
On second thought, I’m a much better fan than you. I’m not all greased up with bitterness like you apparently are. 
Here’s to health and happiness for you and yours and a little thanksgiving miracle called “kindness.”

 

Go Bills!

Oh calm down, I'm not greased up with bitterness, I'm calling a spade a spade. You're right, this is a fan forum. I thought your post was one of the most short sighted I read on the forum in a long time and I have been here awhile. Perhaps I could have stated it with more sensitivity. Happy Holidays. 

[ticketssince61]

13 hours ago, JY422 said:

 

 

 Not one thing about Kemp stands out ahead of Allen other than longevity. 
 

 

How about winning championships?

[Nextmanup]

I think I'd elevate Diggs to Tier 1 right now.

 

We have had some nice receivers over the years...Frank Lewis!  Jerry Butler!  Andre!  Lofton!  Lee Evans; Stevie Johnson; Eric Moulds, Terrell Owens (almost forgot about him!) Peerless Price, Ahmad Rashad!  

 

I'm sure I'm missing a few good ones...

But how many of those were basically the best WR in the game while they were a Bill?

 

Even Andre Reed was not that.  TO was way past his prime as a Bill; Most of James Lofton's career came as a Packer.

 

I'd easily say Diggs is as good a WR as we've ever had.  Certainly top 3.

 

 

[MJS]

4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Allen I can buy as #2 behind Kelly, with Kemp third and Fergy 4th.

 

White?  He's in there with Byrd, Egerson, James - he's at least in the discussion

 

Poyer and Hyde?  Saimes, Tony Greene, Henry Jones - Poyer and Hyde are top 5

 

Dawkins?  Way behind Wolford, Barber, Peters; behind Dave Foley and Fina

 

WRs:   You have to have Reed and Moulds in your top two, have to have that, then Lofton, then Jerry Butler who may have been the best of all if he didn't get hurt. Diggs could get into the top three.  To suggest Beasley would is laughable. 

 

Bass could very well wind up #1 but right now is behind Gogolak, Christie, and others 

 

LBs:  Edmunds and Milano would have to prove they are better long term than a whole host of guys including, in the middle, Fletcher, Harry Jacobs, Conlan, Haslett, Shane Nelson, eugene Marve.  And outside Milano would have to beat out Stratton, John Tracy, Bennett. Talley, Paup, Spikes just to name a few

You forgot Dubenion for receivers, but spot on with everything else.

[Nextmanup]

14 hours ago, FireChans said:

Allen is the best QB the Bills have ever had. The rest of them? nah.

There's a lot of "I'm older than you so I know better" bias in these responses.

 

See my comments about Diggs...he's easily as good as WR as the Bills have EVER had...

 

If anything, modern players should receive a grading curve in their favor, b/c they play the game NOW, where everyone is a monster who can fly.

 

I always love the  names that come out of the woodwork from 1963...when OLmen were 250 pounds, some guys played both ways, and linebackers were, among other things, ridiculously slow by modern standards.

 

A garden variety player in todays' game would be a talent standout in the '50s or '60s.

 

In the NHL, the average player talent gap between now and even the '80s or '90s is HUGE.

 

I'd argue half the starting NHL goalies of the 1980s would not be AHL goalies now, let alone NHL starters.

 

But now I'm discussing hockey and not football.

 

Anyway, some of the old timers (i'm close to one myself) might want to re-evaluate how great those old players were.

 

Could they even play in today's game?
 

 

 

 

[Utah John]

Let's have some historical perspective.

 

None of the current O linemen is better than the O line during the Electric Company days.

 

None (NONE) of the current offense is better than their counterpart in 1990-91.  At every single position, that team had a better player than we have today.  O line?  No question.  RB?  Thurman and Davis both better than Singletary or Moss.  WR?  Reed and Lofton and Beebe (Diggs right now maybe beats out Beebe).  TE?  Metzelaars AND McKellar.  And of course OJ at RB is the best player (IMHO) the Bills ever had, even better than Bruce Smith.  

 

The Bills have a 61 year history.  On D their 64-65 team had an incredible line, all better than anyone on the today's team.  The SB team D lines had Bruce Smith and some other guys, all good players but in comparison to Smith, JAGs.  We've had GREAT LBs over the years.  Too many to mention.  And too many great DBs to mention.  

 

The current D is the best 11 man unit, for playing together and shutting down offenses, that I can remember.  Kudos to Frazier for getting all these good players all working together so well.  But individually, talentwise, none of the current team is superior to at least one and generally several players from the good teams we had in the past.

 

Steve Christie is the best kicker we ever had, and Scott Norwood was also extremely good despite his famous miss.  For punters, Paul Maguire (yep, the LB and broadcaster) was the most effective weapon we ever had, and Brian Moorman was excellent for many years.  

 

Finally, Steve Tasker.  Nuff said.

 

Quite a few current Bills are too new to challenge those older players but appear to have the talent to do so.  Here's hoping they do!  It would be great if some of them excel to the extent that they are honestly the best at their position all-time.

 

By the way, no one has mentioned Ted Washington.  Good Lord, if we had him now the Bills would go undefeated unless Cody Ford plays.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Utah John

[billykay]

35 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

There's a lot of "I'm older than you so I know better" bias in these responses.

 

See my comments about Diggs...he's easily as good as WR as the Bills have EVER had...

 

If anything, modern players should receive a grading curve in their favor, b/c they play the game NOW, where everyone is a monster who can fly.

 

I always love the  names that come out of the woodwork from 1963...when OLmen were 250 pounds, some guys played both ways, and linebackers were, among other things, ridiculously slow by modern standards.

 

A garden variety player in todays' game would be a talent standout in the '50s or '60s.

 

In the NHL, the average player talent gap between now and even the '80s or '90s is HUGE.

 

I'd argue half the starting NHL goalies of the 1980s would not be AHL goalies now, let alone NHL starters.

 

But now I'm discussing hockey and not football.

 

Anyway, some of the old timers (i'm close to one myself) might want to re-evaluate how great those old players were.

 

Could they even play in today's game?
 

 

 

 

I've never seen a better tackler from any era or at any position than George Saimes

[Utah John]

8 minutes ago, billykay said:

I've never seen a better tackler from any era or at any position than George Saimes

Maybe Ed Reed.  But no Bill was ever better at tackling.

 

 

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

There's a lot of "I'm older than you so I know better" bias in these responses.

 

See my comments about Diggs...he's easily as good as WR as the Bills have EVER had...

 

If anything, modern players should receive a grading curve in their favor, b/c they play the game NOW, where everyone is a monster who can fly.

 

I always love the  names that come out of the woodwork from 1963...when OLmen were 250 pounds, some guys played both ways, and linebackers were, among other things, ridiculously slow by modern standards.

 

A garden variety player in todays' game would be a talent standout in the '50s or '60s.

 

In the NHL, the average player talent gap between now and even the '80s or '90s is HUGE.

 

I'd argue half the starting NHL goalies of the 1980s would not be AHL goalies now, let alone NHL starters.

 

But now I'm discussing hockey and not football.

 

Anyway, some of the old timers (i'm close to one myself) might want to re-evaluate how great those old players were.

 

Could they even play in today's game?
 

 

 

 

I think the OP missed on the way this should have been presented (I'm not dogging you OP it is a good question just confusing). Some are looking at it more like a single season, others are looking at it as far as a career and body of work, then others looking at it like pure talent.

 

As an example, I would I take 2020 Diggs against any season James Lofton had AS A BILL, but not any in his career nor for his career and body of work.

 

I also can't discount Andre Reed, Eric Mould's, or Elbert Dubenion  career body work as a Bill compared to Diggs. 

 

I also think you have to look at performance relative to pears, well, if that's how you choose to look at it. Obviously any modern athlete is superior, is that how we want to look at this? I really don't know if that's a fair look. That said if this is a Bills list, I feel the standard should be both career and body of work as a Bill. At which point, nobody on our roster could be eligible yet. Some are inching closer. So the question would become who likely can it be? Which really becomes interesting because it's impacted by how good we have been at some positions historically as well as your future outlook of our roster. We are likely furthest away at RB and probably DE, just because Bruce was an all timer. He goes on every list, not just Bills lists. Then we have nobody close to OJ or Thurman.   

Edited November 17, 2021 by KzooMike

[Southern_Bills]

The only person currently on the team that deserves to be on the Bills ring of honor is Jerry Hughes.

 

Period. The end. 

 

The guys mentioned "should" end up there but longevity is definitely a part of it.

[JY422]

2 hours ago, KzooMike said:

Oh calm down, I'm not greased up with bitterness, I'm calling a spade a spade. You're right, this is a fan forum. I thought your post was one of the most short sighted I read on the forum in a long time and I have been here awhile. Perhaps I could have stated it with more sensitivity. Happy Holidays. 

well played Mike.  It's all fun and games anyway.  Happy Holidays to you too. 

Go Bills!

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, Utah John said:

TE?  Metzelaars AND McKellar. 

I think Dawson Knox is about 2 healthy seasons away from being on our all-time TE list, which says more about the status of the position in Bills history than it does about Knox’s brilliance so far (fine player that he is). 

[Mikie2times]

11 minutes ago, JY422 said:

well played Mike.  It's all fun and games anyway.  Happy Holidays to you too. 

Go Bills!

Honestly, I think I just got frustrated by how it was presented, because it is pretty damn interesting as long is everybody is looking at it the same way.   

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, ticketssince61 said:

 

How about winning championships?

Well, if there had been a Super Bowl before 1967 ….

[Mr. WEO]

this is an excellent bit of trolling!

 

if not....wtf??

 

I love this place.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I think I'd elevate Diggs to Tier 1 right now.

 

We have had some nice receivers over the years...Frank Lewis!  Jerry Butler!  Andre!  Lofton!  Lee Evans; Stevie Johnson; Eric Moulds, Terrell Owens (almost forgot about him!) Peerless Price, Ahmad Rashad!  

 

I'm sure I'm missing a few good ones...

But how many of those were basically the best WR in the game while they were a Bill?

 

Even Andre Reed was not that.  TO was way past his prime as a Bill; Most of James Lofton's career came as a Packer.

 

I'd easily say Diggs is as good a WR as we've ever had.  Certainly top 3.

 

 

I agree he is top 3 talent behind Reed and Moulds. But just as you discounted Lofton, Diggs has 5 years with Minnesota and 1 and a half with Buffalo.  Reed was never best WR in the game becuase of Jerry Rice. He was in the conversation for second best frequently with guys like Tim Brown, Michael Irvin, and others. Hopkins, Adams, and Hill are great but still not in the class of Rice. Diggs will need 2 or 3 more seasons to surpass Moulds and 5+ to move past Reed. 

51 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I think Dawson Knox is about 2 healthy seasons away from being on our all-time TE list, which says more about the status of the position in Bills history than it does about Knox’s brilliance so far (fine player that he is). 

Knox is already the best physical talent to play the position in Bills franchise history.  Agree 2 more healthy seasons and he will be the best ever, even if he will live in the shadows of Kelce and Kittle.

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Well, if there had been a Super Bowl before 1967 ….

Don't devalue the prestige of winning a Championship because the name or league structure or place in time. That team and those players received rings and a Championship trophy just like the teams of the current era.