4 Current Players already deserve to be on Bills All-time team!

[JY422]

I think we can make the case that there are 4 current players who already belong in the top 3 at their positions on the all-time Bills team. 

 

There are a few other current players who will likely be added to this list but their sample size is too small at this point. (Either for lack of time spent with the Bills, i.e. Stef Diggs, or because they are just coming into their own, i.e. Tre Edmunds, Tyler Bass & Dawson Knox.) 

 

here is my complete list by tiers:

 

Tier One: (Already top 3 at their respective positions)

Allen, White, Poyer, Hyde

perhaps Dawkins belongs in there with the above 4 but I think he still needs a breakout year or two first. 

 

Tier Two: (current trajectory has them in Tier One with another excellent season or two)

Diggs, Dawkins, Bass, Edmunds, Milano, Bease

 

Tier Three: (young bucks who have flashed enough to warrant discussion in another couple years)

Gave Davis, Spencer Brown, Rousseau, Oliver, Taron Johnson. 
 

As I think about all this it pulls me in two directions: 

 

“Optimist”

wow, what a roster Beane & McD have assembled. Not only players, but coaches as well. 

 

“Pessimist”

wow, the Bills have not had very many packed rosters with great players in their 61 year history. 
 

Of course, if this team is the one who brings the Lombardi to Orchard Park then all bets are off and all 53 players are elevated to tier one “legendary” status!! Legendary!

[Mango]

I’m gonna take a hard pass on almost all of this. 
 

Your top tier is mostly fine if you go 3 deep I guess. But I’d have to spend some more time with the DB’s. 

 

Dawkins maybe as a team guy, but he’s not an all time talent. He’s not better than Jason Peters and peak Cordy Glenn is better than anything Dawkins has done. And that is just in the last 20 years. Dawkins is way more than a year or two away from being in the conversation of best LT in Bills history. 
 

Beasley has no business as an all time great. Any all time Bills line up at WR probably has Moulds outside and Andre in the slot (not WR3, but slot)There’s a strong argument to put Diggs as the second outside threat. I’m not sure Beasley is the best slot receiver on this team (Emmanuel Sanders). Also Bob Woods, James Lofton, and TO all played in Buffalo and all ahead of Beasley in general WR rankings. 

 

Diggs might have the best shot at cracking a starting line up behind Josh as WR2. 
 

Edmunds? All time team? From a pure optics perspective the board isn’t sure if we should have given him the 5th year option and you want to put him on track to be a

Bills legend?

 

Milano is in a much better spot to get there. But he needs way more time. The Bills have had some talented LB’s. 
 

Bass has that feeling but we need more time. 
 

The rest of your tier 3’s are totally absurd to even be thinking about as all time Bills greats. 

[Augie]

44 minutes ago, JY422 said:

I think we can make the case that there are 4 current players who already belong in the top 3 at their positions on the all-time Bills team. 

 

There are a few other current players who will likely be added to this list but their sample size is too small at this point. (Either for lack of time spent with the Bills, i.e. Stef Diggs, or because they are just coming into their own, i.e. Tre Edmunds, Tyler Bass & Dawson Knox.) 

 

here is my complete list by tiers:

 

Tier One: (Already top 3 at their respective positions)

Allen, White, Poyer, Hyde

perhaps Dawkins belongs in there with the above 4 but I think he still needs a breakout year or two first. 

 

Tier Two: (current trajectory has them in Tier One with another excellent season or two)

Diggs, Dawkins, Bass, Edmunds, Milano, Bease

 

Tier Three: (young bucks who have flashed enough to warrant discussion in another couple years)

Gave Davis, Spencer Brown, Rousseau, Oliver, Taron Johnson. 
 

As I think about all this it pulls me in two directions: 

 

“Optimist”

wow, what a roster Beane & McD have assembled. Not only players, but coaches as well. 

 

“Pessimist”

wow, the Bills have not had very many packed rosters with great players in their 61 year history. 
 

Of course, if this team is the one who brings the Lombardi to Orchard Park then all bets are off and all 53 players are elevated to tier one “legendary” status!! Legendary!

 

This is not meant with any offense, but I’m guessing you are on the younger side of things. Do you even have any idea who Butch Byrd is? I could go on, and on, and on, but I think that makes the point. 

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

This is not meant with any offense, but I’m guessing you are on the younger side of things. Do you even have any idea who Butch Byrd is? I could go on, and on, and on, but I think that makes the point. 

Debating deleting my response and just leaving this. You nailed it.

[FireChans]

Allen is the best QB the Bills have ever had. The rest of them? nah.

[Thurman#1]

21 minutes ago, Mango said:

I’m gonna take a hard pass on almost all of this. 
 

Your top tier is mostly fine if you go 3 deep I guess. But I’d have to spend some more time with the DB’s. 

 

Dawkins maybe as a team guy, but he’s not an all time talent. He’s not better than Jason Peters and peak Cordy Glenn is better than anything Dawkins has done. And that is just in the last 20 years. Dawkins is way more than a year or two away from being in the conversation of best LT in Bills history. 
 

Beasley has no business as an all time great. Any all time Bills line up at WR probably has Moulds outside and Andre in the slot (not WR3, but slot)There’s a strong argument to put Diggs as the second outside threat. I’m not sure Beasley is the best slot receiver on this team (Emmanuel Sanders). Also Bob Woods, James Lofton, and TO all played in Buffalo and all ahead of Beasley in general WR rankings. 

 

Diggs might have the best shot at cracking a starting line up behind Josh as WR2. 
 

Edmunds? All time team? From a pure optics perspective the board isn’t sure if we should have given him the 5th year option and you want to put him on track to be a

Bills legend?

 

Milano is in a much better spot to get there. But he needs way more time. The Bills have had some talented LB’s. 
 

Bass has that feeling but we need more time. 
 

The rest of your tier 3’s are totally absurd to even be thinking about as all time Bills greats. 

 

 

It's not that the board that's not sure about Edmunds. It's that he's got a small group of haters that want a Dick Butkus in the middle. They don't get it and won't be convinced.

 

Having said that, Edmunds would be running up against Sam Cowart, Takeo, Shane Conlan and a bunch others before you even consider the real old-timers like Stratton. Way too early to have this conversation for him and for nearly everyone in OP's post, though Poyer and Hyde might be a pretty reasonable thought and Allen certainly looks like in a couple of years he'll be in there as well.

 

Other than Hughes, nobody's been here more than four and a half years and the first year or two didn't look good. Too early.

[Sugar High JA17]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Allen is the best QB the Bills have ever had. The rest of them? nah.

Whoa, man. Time to mellow out, Jim Kelly was hella gnar gnar too

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Sugar High JA17 said:

Whoa, man. Time to mellow out, Jim Kelly was hella gnar gnar too

I know exactly who Kelly was.

[Process]

This is silly

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It's not that the board that's not sure about Edmunds. It's that he's got a small group of haters that want a Dick Butkus in the middle. They don't get it and won't be convinced.

 

Having said that, Edmunds would be running up against Sam Cowart, Takeo, Shane Conlan and a bunch others before you even consider the real old-timers like Stratton. Way too early to have this conversation for him and for nearly everyone in OP's post, though Poyer and Hyde might be a pretty reasonable thought and Allen certainly looks like in a couple of years he'll be in there as well.

 

Other than Hughes, nobody's been here more than four and a half years and the first year or two didn't look good. Too early.

Right, just sort of making the point that there isn’t a general consensus on him even being great now let alone all time. That should be a prerequisite for being on an all time list. 
 

Also London Fletcher. 
 

(So we don’t hijack this into an Edmunds thread, I agree with you)

[Sugar High JA17]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I know exactly who Kelly was.

Thats pretty radical right there but i aint gonna sweat it dude.

Kelly once said "Imperfection is the secret to perfection" Josh is New-Wave Rad also

[JY422]

23 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

This is not meant with any offense, but I’m guessing you are on the younger side of things. Do you even have any idea who Butch Byrd is? I could go on, and on, and on, but I think that makes the point. 

Haha… well, let’s just say I feel younger than my 48yrs says I am. 
 

shoot, I wasn’t trying to leave out or insult any of the former greats. Butch Byrd, Tony Green, Robert James, George Saimes, Nate Odomes, Leonard Smith, Henry Jones, etc, etc, etc. the Bills have had great DBs in the past. I’m just making the case that White, Poyer and Hyde all deserve to be in the conversation at their respective positions. 
 

In regards to Peters and Glenn… they didn’t stay Bills. I sure wish guys like Peters, Winfield, Lynch, etc all stayed with the Bills and had the kind of sustained success with the Bills that they found on future squads but… they didn’t. 

 

Trust me, I have a well of memories and a lifetime of experience as a Bills fan and all this post was meant to do was to convey my excitement and gratitude for the fact that we finally have a roster full of guys that have “all-time-great” potential written all over them. 

 

12 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I'm not going to put Allen over Kelly and Kemp yet.  I guess he'd be number three although I admired Ferguson's sustainability.  

I'm not going to put White over Byrd, Edgerson, Odomes, Winfield, or Clements yet.  He's close to Winfield though.

It's hard to argue with the safeties but Henry Jones and Jarius Byrd were pretty damn good when they were here.

No one is putting Allen over Kelly just yet. But go ahead and stop bangin’ the drum for Kemp over Allen cause that’s a losing argument. Not one thing about Kemp stands out ahead of Allen other than longevity. 
again, the pessimist in me is sad that this franchise only has ever had two legit QBs that the rest of the world stands up and fears. 

[Doc Brown]

19 minutes ago, JY422 said:

No one is putting Allen over Kelly just yet. But go ahead and stop bangin’ the drum for Kemp over Allen cause that’s a losing argument. Not one thing about Kemp stands out ahead of Allen other than longevity. 
again, the pessimist in me is sad that this franchise only has ever had two legit QBs that the rest of the world stands up and fears. 

I deleted my post because I didn't want to start debates like this.  How the hell do you compare an AFL QB to a modern NFL QB?

[Mango]

13 minutes ago, JY422 said:

Haha… well, let’s just say I feel younger than my 48yrs says I am. 
 

shoot, I wasn’t trying to leave out or insult any of the former greats. Butch Byrd, Tony Green, Robert James, George Saimes, Nate Odomes, Leonard Smith, Henry Jones, etc, etc, etc. the Bills have had great DBs in the past. I’m just making the case that White, Poyer and Hyde all deserve to be in the conversation at their respective positions. 
 

In regards to Peters and Glenn… they didn’t stay Bills. I sure wish guys like Peters, Winfield, Lynch, etc all stayed with the Bills and had the kind of sustained success with the Bills that they found on future squads but… they didn’t. 

 

Trust me, I have a well of memories and a lifetime of experience as a Bills fan and all this post was meant to do was to convey my excitement and gratitude for the fact that we finally have a roster full of guys that have “all-time-great” potential written all over them. 

 

No one is putting Allen over Kelly just yet. But go ahead and stop bangin’ the drum for Kemp over Allen cause that’s a losing argument. Not one thing about Kemp stands out ahead of Allen other than longevity. 
again, the pessimist in me is sad that this franchise only has ever had two legit QBs that the rest of the world stands up and fears. 

 

Glenn only played two years outside

of Buffalo. Peter’s and Dawkins have spent the same amount of time In Buffalo. I’m not even claiming Glenn should be an all-timer,  but he was better, which pushes DD down. 
 

Let’s not forget that McD threatened to move him inside or to RT because he wasn’t playing well in 2018. His 19 season got him a raise. Covid isn’t helping at the moment. I won’t hold it against him and won’t count it for him. But two above average after being threatened to change positions should not get you sniffing a list for all time great. 
 

I actually think with the Bills OL woes, if they love a LT in the draft they shouldn’t hesitate to pull the trigger and move Dawkins inside. His contract levels out as a high end guard anyways and the league is light on quality guards. 

[BruceVilanch]

37 minutes ago, Sugar High JA17 said:

hella gnar gnar

that gave me a chuckle, I say that phrase all the time to piss off my wife. 

[MJS]

I think the two players you can talk about this are Allen and Bass. Allen is 2nd behind Kelly, and I'm sure some would make the case for him 3rd behind Kelly and Kemp. But for me, Allen is 2nd.

 

Bass needs a few more years of elite play, but he is certainly on that trajectory to be the best kicker we have had. But dang, so much could happen to derail that trajectory.

 

As far as pure talent, I think Diggs could get there. He is such a complete receiver. A clear #1. But he has some great Bills receivers to pass up and that will take time and continued elite play. I put Reed, Moulds, and Dubenion ahead of him for sure.

 

I'd have to brush up on historical Bills safeties (Tony Greene and Mark Kelso?), but I don't think Hyde and Poyer are there yet. Maybe eventually.

 

Same with Tre White. The Bills have had some really good cornerbacks. Butch Byrd. Nate Odomes. Nate Clements. Tre White needs a lot to pass some of those guys up, but he could do it. He has to maintain his play for a lot of years.

 

Some of the other guys you mentioned are nowhere close.

Edited November 17, 2021 by MJS

[KeLLy1278]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Allen is the best QB the Bills have ever had. The rest of them? nah.

Please tell me you are joking.  Can Allen have around five deep playoff runs at least?   Until then it’s Jim Kelly.

[Spiderweb]

18 minutes ago, MJS said:

I think the two players you can talk about this are Allen and Bass. Allen is 2nd behind Kelly, and I'm sure some would make the case for him 3rd behind Kelly and Kemp. But for me, Allen is 2nd.

 

Bass needs a few more years of elite play, but he is certainly on that trajectory to be the best kicker we have had. But dang, so much could happen to derail that trajectory.

 

As far as pure talent, I think Diggs could get there. He is such a complete receiver. A clear #1. But he has some great Bills receivers to pass up and that will take time and continued elite play. I put Reed, Moulds, and Dubenion ahead of him for sure.

 

I'd have to brush up on historical Bills safeties (Tony Greene and Mark Kelso?), but I don't think Hyde and Poyer are there yet. Maybe eventually.

 

Same with Tre White. The Bills have had some really good cornerbacks. Butch Byrd. Nate Odomes. Nate Clements. Tre White needs a lot to pass some of those guys up, but he could do it. He has to maintain his play for a lot of years.

 

Some of the other guys you mentioned are nowhere close.

Let us not forget ( those oldsters like me ) a FS named George Saimes who was a key part of both AFL championship teams (64 & 65)......

Edited November 17, 2021 by Spiderweb

[MJS]

21 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

Let us not forget ( those oldsters like me ) a FS named George Saimes who was a key part of both AFL championship teams (64 & 65)......

Yep. Great player.

 

But I'm a young guy, so most of the historical guys are ones I've had to do research on instead of actully experienced watching them play.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Please tell me you are joking.  Can Allen have around five deep playoff runs at least?   Until then it’s Jim Kelly.

 

 

Yup. Allen looks likely to become the best, but for right now, it's Kelly until Allen succeeds over time.

 

Kemp is underrated. First team all-pro twice, Pro Bowl six years in a row and seven total out of nine years of more than 20 passes thrown. A very solid guy.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Thurman#1