Mike Williams

[GG]

Ummm, GG, I didn't go by what was on NFLPA, I searched out the details of the contracts as reported by ESPN, SI, team "fan" web sites.  I read that the total value of McKinnie's contract was "a five-year, $13.3 million contract with Minnesota that includes a $9.35 million signing bonus."  The SB is $50,000 greater than Roy Williams', and total value is $200K greater.  Sims received a $10M signing bonus.

 

Of course, this all doesn't change the fact that Williams is overpaid. 

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Ummm, yourself.

 

Is there a reason you didn't go by what's on NFLPA, when Silver_n_Fury's question was specifically about the NFLPA figures? He didn't ask about the total salary cap. He wanted to know why is there such a large disparity in salary between Williams & McKinnie on NFLPA's web site.

 

Sheesh. Where do you people come from? Is reading comprehension optional for snapperheads? If you slobs only made as much as Mike Williams, maybe we could stay on topic.

 

(BTW, since your research showed that McKinnie signed a 5-yr deal, and NFLPA lists him under contract for 7 years, means that he may have redone his deal and that's why his 2005 salary is lower than MW's. Or you could just be WRONG)

[Dan Gross]

Ummm, yourself. 

 

Is there a reason you didn't go by what's on NFLPA, when Silver_n_Fury's question was specifically about the NFLPA figures?  He didn't ask about the total salary cap.  He wanted to know why is there such a large disparity in salary between Williams & McKinnie on NFLPA's web site.

 

Sheesh.  Where do you people come from?  Is reading comprehension optional for snapperheads?  If you slobs only made as much as Mike Williams, maybe we could stay on topic. 

 

(BTW, since your research showed that McKinnie signed a 5-yr deal, and NFLPA lists him under contract for 7 years, means that he may have redone his deal and that's why his 2005 salary is lower than MW's.  Or you could just be WRONG)

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Fine I'm wrong, you're right. Doesn't matter. Williams is still overpaid.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Voidable years, restructures, and incentives throw everything out of whack. The best you're going to be able to do is go back over the past 3 years and see what each player physically made. Some fans (like Miguel, Clumpy) have those numbers available.

[BillnutinHouston]

MW had a great start, but having Vinklarek and Ruel as his OL coaches have set back his development by at least a year and in conjunction with the death of the grandma who raised him really set back his development by a couple of years.

 

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FFS I like your posts (especially the shorter ones) but how do you know this? What insight do you have?

[CircleTheWagons]

A reporter in MM's press conference said...

 

"Mike Williams looks "sleek" and "svelte" this spring."

 

MM to paraphrase--

 

"Mike has been working hard and has dedicated himself this offseason"

 

Run right Willis---Run right Willis.....

 

Keep it up #68...

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Shouldn't we start these posts with a (PP) to indicate a Positive Post and allow some of the negative ninnies to avoid them?

 

That said, I love that Big Mike's working hard, but I could care less if he is "sleek" and "svelte" - he is a lineman, adjectives like "ugly," "big," and "mean" sound better to me.

[Mark VI]

Shouldn't we start these posts with a (PP) to indicate a Positive Post and allow some of the negative ninnies to avoid them?

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Hmmm..a PT icon ? ( Positive Topic ). Sounds good.

 

PP sounds too urinary..

[rockpile]

Sheesh.  Where do you people come from?

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NOT from Nutley!

[LabattBlue]

I see no one is ever allowed to make one positive comment about Mike Williams without the whole salary issue being brought up ad nauseum. I'm aware he's overpaid and understood the argument the first 20,000 times it was repeated.

 

The guy was the 4th overall pick in the draft and is vastly overpaid, like all top 10 picks are.. He underachieved for 2 years and showed improved ability last season. Now he is being counted on to keep up the improved play and keep himself in better shape. TD will restructure his contract if he sees fit. For now, we need the guy to lead MaGahee on sweeps to the right.

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Maybe TSW should have a list of topics that are forbidden? I'm all for the kind and gentle TSW, but does that mean we all have to share the same opinion on a topic and never stray from it.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

FFS, it is kind of you to attribute Henry's yardage and Drew's pro-bowl selection to Mike Williams, but imo you are simply wrong to do so.

 

Again, imo, Henry gained a good deal of yardage due to the Gilbride system; an ill advised mess which was pass oriented, behind a weak OL. Defenders were charging past the LOS to sack Drew, so in essence, Travis was running by these guys, who were not thinking run.

 

Wrt Drew, if you want to credit MW for his pro-bowl appearance, please inform us who you wish to blame for more than 100 sacks in 2 seasons? Although he was FAR from the only cause for these sacks, the sad truth is that speed rushers got around MW almost at will.  He could always run block to a degree. Big deal. That is the easy part of playing the OL.

 

My hopes for MW were high because of when he was selected. There are posts galore (all quite true I might add) telling us how GMs know more than fans. It was TD who devoted the 4th pick of a draft on this kid, along with tens of millions of dollars.

A great OT CAN be worth this kind of investment to be sure. Pace and Ogden were instrumental in their team's superbowl wins. One had a qb who was from the Arena League, the other a qb with a non-descript career before that season.

Disaster might have been a tad harsh no doubt, but MW has simply not earned the big bucks since his arrival in Buffalo, at times falling far short of doing so.

 

The good news is that it isn't too late. We have him for 3 more seasons, and I for one wont be distressed about his cap hit IF he develops into one of the top 10 offensive tackles in the NFL, and I dont think that this is asking too much.

He is already beind paid as such.

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BINYC- I think there is a convergence in our thinking on MW:

 

1} He has been grossly overpaid for his performance as a Bill (all athletes are overpaid and when you disappoint as MW has you are grossly overpaid)

 

2) It isn't too late for him and his performance at the end of last season is not there yet but gives one reasonable hope.

 

Though there is a convergence in our thinking there is a huge difference in how we express this thinking which may be simple semantics.

 

In my view, in retrospect looking at his performance the last two years one can reasonabl express dismay that MW is not great yet (that is to say performing like a top 10 OL player as a #4 should choice should be at or nearing by this point) but it would be pretty unreasonable to expect that MW would have entered the league performing as a top 10 OL player.

 

He had a great first year in my view because his first year production was at a level that was headed this way. This was measured by him getting a starting job early (unlike Pace who held out and developed a bit slowly and then became great) and the Bills being productive on offense in 2001 based on objective standards such as Travis running for a bunch of yards and receiving a bunch of passes, the receiving game having two receivers above 90 catches, and Drew setting multiple QB records for the Bills and also subjective standards of O productivity such as Pro Bowl berths.

 

Compared to the 2001 offense and the team's 3-13 record they became EXTREMELY productive in conjunction with major changes in personnel being Bledsoe and MW (also Hollis for non-position players) along with added experience for the 2001 crew.

 

 

Was MW a great player in 2002? No. Was he on a reasonable track to become a great player? Yep, definitely.

 

What happened to MW in 2003?

 

1. Kevin Killdrive stubbornly refused to alter our O and as people knew what to expect and BB/NE provided a roadmap on how to undress a Bledsoe led team running the same old thing the O and MW suffered.

 

2. Having two not ready for primetime position coaches in Vinky and Ruel caught up with MW. There was no or little tape for opponents in 2002 and it was unclear to them what the Bills and MW would do. However, in 2003, opponents were able to identify the weakest parts of his play and pick on them. Killdrive and the Bills were unable to change. he young MW in his second year had little clue as to what and how he should do this.

 

3. In his second year, MW had his hands full. At least as a rookie he had the eventually cut but at least more experienced Sullivan next to him. In 2003 he actually was more experienced and expected to carry Pucillo next to him. its no wonder that on several plays Bledsoe ended up sacked with MW and Pucillo standing over his prone body looking at each other with obvious "I thought you had him" body language.

 

I think the bottomline is that MW got off to a great start, but the failings of GW, KG, and DB caught up with him so his game did not develop in his second year and actually in conjunction with the death of his grandmother (and perhaps his marriage) he took a big step back in the beginning of his third year.

 

Is his first year reasonably described as a disaster? No, not at all in my book. I think it was a great start which was objectively better than the one Pace had and actually was not dissimilar to the start Ogden had as he actually was a guard originally and made the jump to LT where he began to collect LT plaudits as one of the best in his third year. MW had a great start because though he was not a great player at tackle (not to mention LT) his rookie year, the fact that he was a starter at tackle from game 1 with his new team (an achievement not matched in the rookie performance of Pace or Ogden) he was on a track to do very well and deserve the LT money which was promised late in his contract.

 

Its fine with me if some folks do not consider this potential which was more than the usual fan hopes and wishes, but butressed by real increases in production by the 2002 Bills O which may have been coincidental to his becoming a starter. However, to make this case, a poster would have to explain why the Bills productivity jumped in 2002.

 

You seem to claim it was all about Kevin Gilbride's system which somehow prospered despite the fact you claim his RT was a disaster. the complaints of many that his QB was a statue and your own loud complaints that the RB was worthless.

 

Come on. are you such a Kevin Killdrive worshipper that you attribute all the real world improvements of the 2002 O to having a scheme that was so good even with horrendous RT. RB (and I suspect you agree) QB performance it ccan qualify multiple folks for the Pro Bowl and be part of a resurrection of our record from 3-13 to 8-8.

 

I guess the bottomline is do you really think Kevn Killdrive was that good.

[scribo]

Now if the thinner, sleeker, super rich tackle would just break down and pay for a chauffer to and from the home games.