Mike Williams

[LabattBlue]

It all will depend on what bonuses are due in the future & ow well MW looks in camp.  If they have the cap room, it may make more sense to carry MW at his oversized salary cap in '05 and have a lot more flexibility in '06.

325103[/snapback]

Good point on waiting until 2006 to renegotiate MW's contract. The Bills don't seem to have any pressing needs in terms of needing money to sign any more players. The only scenario that may require money to be freed up, is if TD wanted to get a contract extension done for NC. Even that is questionable, because depending on how it would be structured, NC's cap number for 2005 may go down, not up(it is currently at 3.5 mil).

[Sound_n_Fury]

I realize the numbers don't jive completely and MW's 9 mil is for 2005, not 2004.  I was just looking for something to compare it to.

 

PS I am very hopeful that MW's contract is renegotiated in the near future.

325100[/snapback]

 

I found the following NFLPA info on MW and Bryant McKinnie's salaries to be odd. I know this doesn't show the bonus and LTBE money, but it seems like Big Mike is making quite a bit more than McKinnie, even though he was picked only 3 spots higher:

 

http://www.nflpa.org/Members/playerProfile.asp?ID=32980

 

http://www.nflpa.org/Members/playerProfile.asp?ID=32983

[canbuffan34]

 

MW had a great start, but having Vinklarek and Ruel as his OL coaches have set back his development by at least a year and in conjunction with the death of the grandma who raised him really set back his development by a couple of years.

 

And did he not get married last year also? 99.94% of players suck the year they get married.

325106[/snapback]

To quote Mick(from Rocky) - "Women ruin legs"

[Mark VI]

And did he not get married last year also? 99.94% of players suck the year they get married.

325106[/snapback]

 

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

Yeah, MW definitely had a great start FOR A ROOKIE PLAYER. He was not a great player his first year (2002) but I feel quite comfortable saying he got off to a great startthat he has not continued.  We can certainly argue the semantics of what one means by "great" or "disaster" but I think any rational analysis (not that I expect or demand that any fan be rational actually) looks at MWs first year and judges it to be much close to the good side (great start) than the bad side (disaster).

 

Specifically:

 

1. He was chosen to start right away as a rookie.

 

I would judge this to be a good start and a start to be hoped for in a #4 choice, but as 50% of the choices in even the 1st  round disappoint according to the pundits, breaking into the starting line-up in your first game is an essential part of a great start though it does not gurantee it. If he had not been able to start his first year you might (might) call his first year a disaster, but he did start so if you are going to justify calling it a disaster 1. it has to be shown that his play was the bad or the cause of bad things and, 2. the burden is definitely on those labeling his play a disaster because the default of the coaches choosing him to start provides some assumption of at least credible play on his part.

 

2. The team was very productive offensively in 2002.

 

Assessing lineman play is a tough thing for a fan to do. There are not the usual assorment of stats like catches, yards gained, TDs etc to point to when making a case.  Even worse, what you see in terms of line plan may not be a totally accurate indicator of individual play.  For example defender who lined up across from an OL player may get credit for a sack but the OL player may not be the blame if the line call gave him responsibility for a different player on a slant block.

 

This being said, all the objective signs point to MW and the OL being part of an O which performed in objective terms and relative to other Bills teams produced on the field:

 

A. This OL provided the blocking which allowed even a statue like Bledsoe to set multiple single-game and season records for offensive production.

B. The OL provided the blocking which allowed Henry to gain the fifth highest rushing total in Bills history.

C. The OL provided the blocking which saw 3 Bills O players (Moulds, Bledsoe and Henry) qualify for the Pro Bowl (not a perfect indicator but a pretty good assessment of accomplishment from third parties).

 

There were objective limitations to his game. he did not start all 16 games, but starting 14 as a rookie is very good.  He logged some sack free games and did so early (Bledsoe for example was only sacked once in MWs first start and I'm not sure who was responsible).  However, all in all I'm not sure where you get calling this a disaster from.

 

In my view MW clearly got off to a great start because he was a key part of an OL that helped the team produce offensively and in the most important indicator the team went from 3-13 to 8-8.

 

I will concede that I was not as accurate as I could be if I gave the impression I thought he was a great player his first year rather than what I meant that he got off to a great start at the beginning of his career.  However, I'd love to see you lay out the case that his first year was a disaster because I saw nothing that would indicate this is true in the least.

 

Jeepers, if Bledsoe made the Pro Bowl with a disaster playing RT for him and Henry racked up about 1400 yards and caught over 40 passes with a disaster playing RT in front of him then maybe well all better reconsider how good Bledsoe and Henry are. If they can pull off their 2001 accomplishments with MW being a disster they must be good.

325044[/snapback]

 

FFS, it is kind of you to attribute Henry's yardage and Drew's pro-bowl selection to Mike Williams, but imo you are simply wrong to do so.

 

Again, imo, Henry gained a good deal of yardage due to the Gilbride system; an ill advised mess which was pass oriented, behind a weak OL. Defenders were charging past the LOS to sack Drew, so in essence, Travis was running by these guys, who were not thinking run.

 

Wrt Drew, if you want to credit MW for his pro-bowl appearance, please inform us who you wish to blame for more than 100 sacks in 2 seasons? Although he was FAR from the only cause for these sacks, the sad truth is that speed rushers got around MW almost at will. He could always run block to a degree. Big deal. That is the easy part of playing the OL.

 

My hopes for MW were high because of when he was selected. There are posts galore (all quite true I might add) telling us how GMs know more than fans. It was TD who devoted the 4th pick of a draft on this kid, along with tens of millions of dollars.

A great OT CAN be worth this kind of investment to be sure. Pace and Ogden were instrumental in their team's superbowl wins. One had a qb who was from the Arena League, the other a qb with a non-descript career before that season.

Disaster might have been a tad harsh no doubt, but MW has simply not earned the big bucks since his arrival in Buffalo, at times falling far short of doing so.

 

The good news is that it isn't too late. We have him for 3 more seasons, and I for one wont be distressed about his cap hit IF he develops into one of the top 10 offensive tackles in the NFL, and I dont think that this is asking too much.

He is already beind paid as such.

[mead107]

mike williams hurts profits at burger king stops eating there .good news profits up at subway

[ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN]

MW is getting ready to play his best ball - so that he can test Free agency in a few more seasons and leave buffalo. we will get 2 great seasons from him and then he will head over to seattle or the rams or something...

 

money motivates these slobs.

[Sound_n_Fury]

MW is getting ready to play his best ball - so that he can test Free agency in a few more seasons and leave buffalo.  we will get 2 great seasons from him and then he will head over to seattle or the rams or something...

 

money motivates these slobs.

325360[/snapback]

 

So is MW different than any other player? How many guys can you name that have given their team a "discount" on their services when it comes to FA?

 

I guess Spikes, Fletcher, Adams, etc. should be viewed negatively as well....

[ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN]

no, you are right, they all play for money. that is negative, i guess. but true. agents and lawyers pull the strings and the players are little dancing muppets for them.

 

did you see Willis's comment recently??? something like, i'll stay in buffalo - if they pay me?

 

it is sad, but sport is greed. "it is a business" is the mantra. sure , maybe there a few old famr boys who play for the game, but most are want the cash.

[GG]

I found the following NFLPA info on MW and Bryant McKinnie's salaries to be odd.  I know this doesn't show the bonus and LTBE money, but it seems like Big Mike is making quite a bit more than McKinnie, even though he was picked only 3 spots higher:

 

http://www.nflpa.org/Members/playerProfile.asp?ID=32980

 

http://www.nflpa.org/Members/playerProfile.asp?ID=32983

325126[/snapback]

 

My guess is that A) McKinnie already restructured his deal or B) his contract calls for lower salary but high reporting bonuses (not reflected in NFLPA), or some combination of the two.

[Alaska Darin]

money motivates these slobs.

325360[/snapback]

Which makes them alot different from the rest of us...

[GG]

Which makes them alot different from the rest of us... 

325428[/snapback]

 

They're slobs and we're not?

[Sound_n_Fury]

My guess is that A) McKinnie already restructured his deal or B) his contract calls for lower salary but high reporting bonuses (not reflected in NFLPA), or some combination of the two.

325420[/snapback]

 

I agree with (B) and suspect it's been TD's plan all along to restructure MW when the large salary cap hit kicks in in 2005. Still, I was looking at the other top 8 guys from that draft class and MW's contract appears to still be structured somewhat differently than the norm.

 

On another front, I was surprised to see MW give a short interview last night on the Channel 4 sports roundup of the minicamp. I can't recall seeing him in front of the camera too much in the past, and especially last year. I wonder if he is going to raise his profile a bit more this year...

[Dan Gross]

My guess is that A) McKinnie already restructured his deal or B) his contract calls for lower salary but high reporting bonuses (not reflected in NFLPA), or some combination of the two.

325420[/snapback]

and/or c.) McKinnie's contract has similar escalators to Williams' (playing time is what bumped his salary up enormously this year), but since he held out most of his first season, he hasn't hit those escalators yet, and/or d.) Williams' contract is just less than the $36.5 M the #3 pick (Harrington), while McKinnie's contract is just less than the #6 (Sims) contract, with a signing bonus just higher than Roy Williams....remember the whole "collusion" crusade?

[Mark VI]

I see no one is ever allowed to make one positive comment about Mike Williams without the whole salary issue being brought up ad nauseum. I'm aware he's overpaid and understood the argument the first 20,000 times it was repeated.

 

The guy was the 4th overall pick in the draft and is vastly overpaid, like all top 10 picks are.. He underachieved for 2 years and showed improved ability last season. Now he is being counted on to keep up the improved play and keep himself in better shape. TD will restructure his contract if he sees fit. For now, we need the guy to lead MaGahee on sweeps to the right.

[Dan Gross]

I see no one is ever allowed to make one positive comment about Mike Williams without the whole salary issue being brought up ad nauseum. I'm aware he's overpaid and understood the argument the first 20,000 times it was repeated.

 

The guy was the 4th overall pick in the draft and is vastly overpaid, like all top 10 picks are.. He underachieved for 2 years and showed improved ability last season. Now he is being counted on to keep up the improved play keep himself in better shape. TD will restructure his contract if he sees fit. For now, we need the guy to lead MaGahee on sweeps to the right.

325447[/snapback]

 

But he's overpaid!

[BuckeyeBill]

I'm liking what I have read about MW so far. Sure he is the highest paid player on our team (something is wrong there), but I can see him dominating this year just like he did in college.

 

Good for you Mike!!

[GG]

and/or c.) McKinnie's contract has similar escalators to Williams' (playing time is what bumped his salary up enormously this year), but since he held out most of his first season, he hasn't hit those escalators yet, and/or d.) Williams' contract is just less than the $36.5 M the #3 pick (Harrington), while McKinnie's contract is just less than the #6 (Sims) contract, with a signing bonus just higher than Roy Williams....remember the whole "collusion" crusade?

325445[/snapback]

 

Where's McLaughlin when you need him?

 

WRONG.

 

You would be correct if we were talking about the total contract & MW's cap. But S_n_F was referring to the amounts that are reflected on the NFLPA site. There is always a big difference in those numbers, as NFLPA only reports the contractual salary.

 

MW's contract appears to be similar to Carr & Harrington where the salary jumps substantially in Year 4 to induce the player to sign a long term deal. Interesting that Texans only signed Carr to a 4-year deal. Peppers' escalator kicks in in '06.

 

McKinnie's contract doesn't have the same contractual salary escalators of the top 4 picks, but we don't know what reporting bonus needs to be paid. (That amount would not be reflected on the NFLPA site) But my guess is that McKinnie will be paid much more than $700,000 in '05.

[Dan Gross]

Where's McLaughlin when you need him?

 

WRONG.

 

You would be correct if we were talking about the total contract & MW's cap.  But S_n_F was referring to the amounts that are reflected on the NFLPA site.  There is always a big difference in those numbers, as NFLPA only reports the contractual salary. 

 

MW's contract appears to be similar to Carr & Harrington where the salary jumps substantially in Year 4 to induce the player to sign a long term deal.  Interesting that Texans only signed Carr to a 4-year deal.  Peppers' escalator kicks in in '06.

 

McKinnie's contract doesn't have the same contractual salary escalators of the top 4 picks, but we don't know what reporting bonus needs to be paid.  (That amount would not be reflected on the NFLPA site)  But my guess is that McKinnie will be paid much more than $700,000 in '05.

325463[/snapback]

 

Ummm, GG, I didn't go by what was on NFLPA, I searched out the details of the contracts as reported by ESPN, SI, team "fan" web sites. I read that the total value of McKinnie's contract was "a five-year, $13.3 million contract with Minnesota that includes a $9.35 million signing bonus." The SB is $50,000 greater than Roy Williams', and total value is $200K greater. Sims received a $10M signing bonus.

 

Of course, this all doesn't change the fact that Williams is overpaid.

[kota]

Big Mike started to Dominate the right side of the line in the 2nd half the season. I only expect him to do the same.

 

If he is losing weight that only makes him quicker and stronger. I expect alot of plays going to the right side this year.