Offensive Line Still a Problem

[elijah]

Overall the team is very good, probably the best in the AFC type of good. Still worried about the Chiefs, as they simply have an incredible amount of talent and a Hall of Fame coach. Kind of worried about the Browns and Steelers simply based on matchup, both teams with strong running games and defensive lines. Other than that though, the Bills are an incredible team and in talks for the best in the league. 

 

However, the aspiration for this year is Super Bowl. Under those circumstances, the offensive line is still a problem. They simply weren’t that good today again after an abysmal performance against the Jaguars last week. 

 

There’s going to be a ‘this is why we can’t have nice things’ crowd, but if we’re talking about a Super Bowl it’s okay to be critical of these things. If not for Josh’s creative strong play in the backfield, we’d be getting killed on a weekly basis by opposing defensive lines. It’s something to talk about and monitor as the season goes on. As of right now, the offensive line is playing bad enough to say that that specific unit could hold us back from winning a Super Bowl irregardless of how strong and dominant the rest of the team is. 

 

Whether it’s Bobby Johnson or just a lack of talent, something needs to be done to address it. Josh was getting pressured all over today, thankfully we have an MVP-caliber QB who can hide the deficiencies in certain games against weaker overall teams. However, the current state of play just isn’t sustainable for a Super Bowl win.

 

Hopefully Brown can continue to mesh with Williams on the right side, while Dawkins and Morse get back to their peak play. But until then, the OL is something to watch and worry about as we gear up for a deep playoff run. 

 

Thoughts? 

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, elijah said:

Thoughts? 

 

Since I retired I have noticed that I daydream more.

[John from Riverside]

We don’t need this offense of line to be dominant in order to win it all we just need them to be a little bit better

[Ethan in Cleveland]

They passed block well today. They ran left well. A couple of penalties.  All in all they did ok today. They weren't playing against a top DL, so who knows. 

[Chandler#81]

Thoughts?

 

Thoughts???😳

[JohnNord]

6 minutes ago, elijah said:

Overall the team is very good, probably the best in the AFC type of good. Still worried about the Chiefs, as they simply have an incredible amount of talent and a Hall of Fame coach. Kind of worried about the Browns and Steelers simply based on matchup, both teams with strong running games and defensive lines. Other than that though, the Bills are an incredible team and in talks for the best in the league. 

 

However, the aspiration for this year is Super Bowl. Under those circumstances, the offensive line is still a problem. They simply weren’t that good today again after an abysmal performance against the Jaguars last week. 

 

There’s going to be a ‘this is why we can’t have nice things’ crowd, but if we’re talking about a Super Bowl it’s okay to be critical of these things. If not for Josh’s creative strong play in the backfield, we’d be getting killed on a weekly basis by opposing defensive lines. It’s something to talk about and monitor as the season goes on. As of right now, the offensive line is playing bad enough to say that that specific unit could hold us back from winning a Super Bowl irregardless of how strong and dominant the rest of the team is. 

 

Whether it’s Bobby Johnson or just a lack of talent, something needs to be done to address it. Josh was getting pressured all over today, thankfully we have an MVP-caliber QB who can hide the deficiencies in certain games against weaker overall teams. However, the current state of play just isn’t sustainable for a Super Bowl win.

 

Hopefully Brown can continue to mesh with Williams on the right side, while Dawkins and Morse get back to their peak play. But until then, the OL is something to watch and worry about as we gear up for a deep playoff run. 

 

Thoughts? 

Were you watching the same game?   I thought the line performed well today.  There was the one moment when Doyle played a snap and got schooled.  And another one where a blitzer ran free and crushed Josh.  Aside from that, it looked like the line had a good performance.  

1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said:

They passed block well today. They ran left well. A couple of penalties.  All in all they did ok today. They weren't playing against a top DL, so who knows. 

Jets Defensive Line is actually pretty good. Not a top DL but also not the worst in the league

[Freddie's Dead]

The line arguably had its best game of the year today.

[GreggTX]

I thought they played well against a pretty good DL. Q Williams is borderline elite and their DE's are solid, but not spectacular. Still, I do think that if we're going to focus on any specific area after the season and get the best returns, I'd go for OL upgrades and CB. If Star is gone, the 1-Tech role will demand attention. TE depth is also an issue. A RB upgrade would be nice too. I doubt we could upgrade all of those areas, but OL would be my top priority for overall effectiveness. It would really help Allen and would improve consistency.

[Utah John]

Most QBs don't get clean pockets most of the time.  Most QBs have to evade rushers to get the chance to throw medium or deep passes.  That's just life in the NFL.  The Bills are actually above average in pass blocking, and that's more important than run blocking for the way the Bills play.  

 

The point being, the O line is not going to keep this team out of the SB.

[billsfan89]

LG is the main issue on the O-line when healthy. I see Dawkins as a solid LT, Spencer Brown looks like a good starting caliber RT, when D.Williams kicks inside to RG he is effective there and Mitch at center is an elite pass blocker and he does the leadership and communication things you need from a center even if he is an average at best run blocker. That leaves LG as a question mark in my opinion. Mongo is likely the teams best option at LG which isn't tragic but it leaves something to be desired. I had hopes for Ike or Bates maybe stepping in and being a possible upgrade at LG but that doesn't look to be the case. 

 

With Brown and D.Williams anchoring the right side, Mitch an effective center and Dawkins a solid LT I don't see the line when it is at full strength being a massive issue outside of LG. But the main issue in my mind is depth. One injury and this line has to start two lesser players and that's a problem. The depth this line had the past two seasons just isn't there. If I were McBeane I would look to bring in a guard off the street, kick the tires on a guy like David DeCastro or some other guard. 

Just now, Utah John said:

Most QBs don't get clean pockets most of the time.  Most QBs have to evade rushers to get the chance to throw medium or deep passes.  That's just life in the NFL.  The Bills are actually above average in pass blocking, and that's more important than run blocking for the way the Bills play.  

 

The point being, the O line is not going to keep this team out of the SB.

 

Agreed that some posters expect a clean pocket 100% of the time or else everyone on the line is a failure. I also agree that when the line is at full strength it is capable. The question is can they get the line healthy and playing well going into the playoffs. Hopefully Spencer Browns back and Mongo's injury aren't longer term issues and there isn't an injury to any of the other three.

[hondo in seattle]

The OL will remain the weakest unit of the year - all the way until the Super Bowl ends and we're hoisting the Lombardi.

 

What can you do?  You can't sign new linemen.  You can't hire a new OL coach.  You can't suddenly overhaul the blocking schemes.  

 

You can hope (1) the OL gets healthy and we always have our best five on the field.  (2)  Daboll calls good  games that make the OL look better - like he did yesterday.  

 

This offseason, though, Beane better attack the OL hard.  

 

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by hondo in seattle

[billsbackto81]

Spencer Brown makes the difference. Not because he's elite or dominant but because he allows Williams to play Guard which allows Ford to play on the bench. 

[maryland-bills-fan]

It looks like there are a good number of offensive guards ranked in the 2-3 rounds for next year.  The first round pick might go for a RB. After that I want one of these OG.

1. Kenyon Green, G, Texas A&M Height:

6-4. Weight: 325

.Projected 40 Time: 5.4.   

Projected Round (2022): 1-2.

 

2. Chasen Hines, G, LSU
Height: 6-3. Weight: 323.
Projected 40 Time: 5.2.
Projected Round (2022): 2-3.

 

3. Ed Ingram, G, LSU
Height: 6-3. Weight: 310.
Projected 40 Time: 5.25.
Projected Round (2022): 2-3.

 

4. Jaxon Kirkland, G, Washington
Height: 6-6. Weight: 318.
Projected 40 Time: 5.25.
Projected Round (2022): 2-3

 

5. Zion Johnson, G, Boston College
Height: 6-2. Weight: 315.
Projected 40 Time: 5.3.
Projected Round (2022): 2-3.

 

6. Jamaree Salyer*, G, Georgia
Height: 6-3. Weight: 340.
Projected 40 Time: 5.5.
Projected Round (2022): 2-4.

 

https://www.walterfootball.com/draft2022OG.php ....

 

Our 2nd round pick is going to be close to a 3rd round pick, so we might be picking from the lower 3 of this list. I also don't like it when two players from similar positions are both ranked highly-  It often is that the sum of those parts makes each one look better.  (remember Rudd and Nelson, drafter 1,2 in 1975?!).

 

For the 1st round I would look for a DT if Star retires, or a CB or superios RB (Spiller).

[billsfan1959]

5 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Spencer Brown makes the difference. Not because he's elite or dominant but because he allows Williams to play Guard which allows Ford to play on the bench. 

 

All I know is with Spencer Brown starting at RT and Williams at RG, the Bills are averaging 313 YPG passing, 135 YPG rushing, 448 Total YPG, and 38.5 PPG

[Matt_In_NH]

Thai team is in a dog fight for the division and conference.   They will have to be scrappy and physical and win some close games to make it.   The OL is not the strong part of the team but there are 5-6 capable players that probably need to stay healthy and gel more than they have so far.   I am optimistic they will be in it long term.  
 

Are you referencing the jets game?   what about the OL performance against the Jets did you not like?   I mean the offense was different in a good way.   Josh under center, they ran effectively when they did.  They used some toss plays and jet sweeps that were non existent prior to yeaterday.  They played well with the caveat it was against the Jets

[papazoid]

33 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Spencer Brown makes the difference. Not because he's elite or dominant but because he allows Williams to play Guard which allows Ford to play on the bench. 

 

boom

[BillsShredder83]

31 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

All I know is with Spencer Brown starting at RT and Williams at RG, the Bills are averaging 313 YPG passing, 135 YPG rushing, 448 Total YPG, and 38.5 PPG

Crazy stat line!

[SCBills]

3 hours ago, Utah John said:

Most QBs don't get clean pockets most of the time.  Most QBs have to evade rushers to get the chance to throw medium or deep passes.  That's just life in the NFL.  The Bills are actually above average in pass blocking, and that's more important than run blocking for the way the Bills play.  

 

The point being, the O line is not going to keep this team out of the SB.

The OL has not been above average in pass pro.  
 

That said, they do have the ability to be. 
 

Dion, if he starts getting back to being Dion, is above average in pass pro.  Morse is as well.  Williams is solid at RG, and Brown looks very promising at RT.   That leaves one guard spot that Feliciano/Boettger can do a serviceable job at holding down. 
 

The worry is that after Boettger, our OL depth falls off a cliff.  Bates is some kind of “break glass in emergency” lineman, Ford should never see the field again, Doyle is a developmental Tackle and Darryl Williams forgot how to play RT when asked to kick back outside. 

[Billzgobowlin]

Spencer Brown made a difference and Mongo disappearing was a loss.  I was watching the Jags game and the three glaring weaknesses throughout were Ford's technic was awful and he was slow, Boettger was not strong enough to anchor so he needed help constantly and Williams was too slow for the speed rush.  We fixed two of those by moving Williams back inside but we need a nasty Guard on the left interior that can anchor and knows proper technic.  Bless Boettger for making the best of it but he will never be able to consistently start.

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

The OL has not been above average in pass pro.  
 

That said, they do have the ability to be. 
 

Dion, if he starts getting back to being Dion, is above average in pass pro.  Morse is as well.  Williams is solid at RG, and Brown looks very promising at RT.   That leaves one guard spot that Feliciano/Boettger can do a serviceable job at holding down. 
 

The worry is that after Boettger, our OL depth falls off a cliff.  Bates is some kind of “break glass in emergency” lineman, Ford should never see the field again, Doyle is a developmental Tackle and Darryl Williams forgot how to play RT when asked to kick back outside. 

They key to  lineup has been Spencer Brown.  When he has been active, he’s allowed the team to upgrade at two different positions - RT and RG.  Daryl Williams has played much better inside than he did at. 

There was a big difference in the offense during the 3 games that Brown has been in the lineup vs. the past 2 games where he was out.  
 

 

The rushing numbers are a bit deceiving as Josh accounted for about 50 yards on the ground

2 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Spencer Brown made a difference and Mongo disappearing was a loss.  I was watching the Jags game and the three glaring weaknesses throughout were Ford's technic was awful and he was slow, Boettger was not strong enough to anchor so he needed help constantly and Williams was too slow for the speed rush.  We fixed two of those by moving Williams back inside but we need a nasty Guard on the left interior that can anchor and knows proper technic.  Bless Boettger for making the best of it but he will never be able to consistently start.

The LG position will be interesting.  Feliciano should be back for the Thanksgiving game.  Do you start him or Ike?  Both have their shortcomings and are probably the weakest link in the OL