Jon Gruden suing the NFL, Roger Goodell

[davefan66]

On 11/12/2021 at 4:57 PM, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Gruden and Mark Davis celebrate:

Because it was an anti-trust lawsuit, damages were trebled to $3.00.

[Orlando Buffalo]

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

No. You don't. Just like the person who flipped off the Presidential motorcade and lost their job. People love to throw around the First Amendment and apply it to situations it does not apply to. If Gruden were to win this it would because of the manner in which the emails were disclosed. 

 

 

FWIW it's not a small difference that he chose to resign rather than be fired. It's sematic but semantics matter.

In order to cancel the contract they would have show that he did more than say some insensitive things. They would have to prove his actions negatively impacted people. Now the fact he resigned is a valid point and will make it interesting for him to prove that he was forced to resign. 

[That's No Moon]

39 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

In order to cancel the contract they would have show that he did more than say some insensitive things. They would have to prove his actions negatively impacted people. Now the fact he resigned is a valid point and will make it interesting for him to prove that he was forced to resign. 

There is no such thing as a forced resignation. You are given the choice, resign or be fired. You can choose to make them fire you. The Raiders did not fire Gruden for cause, they didn't void his contract. It's highly probable that he's being paid his full salary as a part of his agreement to resign. Being fired for cause is totally different and he wasn't.

 

To your other point you still do not have to prove that his actions caused harm to others. He's not a protected class, nothing he lost his job over was protected speech. You don't have the freedom to say whatever you want over emails or over the greater internet or even out loud with impunity. Grudens emails, at least in part, were disparaging to the commissioner of the organization for whom he worked. The Raiders are under no obligation to tolerate that. Just as any of us would expect to lose our jobs if we referred to the CEO of our company that way over company email. Freedom from prosecution from the government is different from freedom from losing your job at a private business.

 

If you really want to go down that road, which again would only be relevant if he were fired for cause which he was not, the Raiders could argue that his actions were harmful to the brand and would significantly impact their future ability to attract players and staff as well as negatively impact sales. It's not really that challenging. One sponsorship is pulled, case is made. Had Gruden stayed on at least one sponsorship would have been pulled. That's lost revenue and is by definition damaging.

 

To my understanding, that's not even Grudens argument. His argument seems to be that he was singled out from a much larger group of people for discipline for similar actions, not that his own actions were justifiable or defensible, but that others should also have been punished but were not. The NFL made that case possible when they declined to release all the emails and nobody else lost their jobs.

[daz28]

On 11/14/2021 at 7:42 PM, That's No Moon said:

There is no such thing as a forced resignation. You are given the choice, resign or be fired. You can choose to make them fire you. The Raiders did not fire Gruden for cause, they didn't void his contract. It's highly probable that he's being paid his full salary as a part of his agreement to resign. Being fired for cause is totally different and he wasn't.

 

To your other point you still do not have to prove that his actions caused harm to others. He's not a protected class, nothing he lost his job over was protected speech. You don't have the freedom to say whatever you want over emails or over the greater internet or even out loud with impunity. Grudens emails, at least in part, were disparaging to the commissioner of the organization for whom he worked. The Raiders are under no obligation to tolerate that. Just as any of us would expect to lose our jobs if we referred to the CEO of our company that way over company email. Freedom from prosecution from the government is different from freedom from losing your job at a private business.

 

If you really want to go down that road, which again would only be relevant if he were fired for cause which he was not, the Raiders could argue that his actions were harmful to the brand and would significantly impact their future ability to attract players and staff as well as negatively impact sales. It's not really that challenging. One sponsorship is pulled, case is made. Had Gruden stayed on at least one sponsorship would have been pulled. That's lost revenue and is by definition damaging.

 

To my understanding, that's not even Grudens argument. His argument seems to be that he was singled out from a much larger group of people for discipline for similar actions, not that his own actions were justifiable or defensible, but that others should also have been punished but were not. The NFL made that case possible when they declined to release all the emails and nobody else lost their jobs.

This is EXACTLY my stance here.  He was talked into this law suit by lawyers after the fact, who I'm sure told him his case would have been MUCH stronger had he forced the Raiders to fire him.  When he resigned, it showed that he evaluated the situation, and chose the best course, based on HIS own actions.  

 

[QCity]

On 11/14/2021 at 7:42 PM, That's No Moon said:

It's highly probable that he's being paid his full salary as a part of his agreement to resign.

 

I'm going to disagree with this part and say there's no way he's still being paid his full salary. He had a ridiculous $100M contract. I would venture a guess and say the contract settlement isn't going the way he wants, and his lawyers have convinced him it's more profitable to file suit (and they're probably right).

[Lane Meyer K12]

Good for him! I hope Gruden wins decisively. The way the NFL conducts itself turns good fans away. 

[Amorgus]

Let the chaos flow and expose EVERYONE.  Let's see how many more scumbags can get taken out by the WFT investigation.