Calling all RB and OL Gurus, Your Input Please

[GoBills808]

41 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

@Hapless Bills Fan I would say that the hole is a mirage... The Bills obviously didn't know how to block the alignment

 

LG go straight to the second level because the dlineman is slightly outside of him at 3tech... He should have combod him until Dawkins got control and then went to the second level

Yep 👍 that reach stab the Colts guard executes perfectly…Boettger not so much

Edited November 11, 2021 by GoBills808
EDIT i am not a guru

[Old Coot]

I tend to agree with what has been said about about the backside LG & LT.

 

The OL can't allow penetration on the backside.  The outside zone is designed to get the DL moving laterally one way.  The RB starts in that direction & then cuts back away from the DL movement.  In the clip the Jags Rt DT is lined up in a 3 technique (outside LG's shoulder) and penetrates almost untouched.  The LG should have chipped him to enable Dawkins to get a piece of the DT and drive him to the left of the screen so Singletary could cut back screen right.

 

A good example of poor OL play on our part.  As for Singletary, he doesn't have anywhere to run on this play.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, beavis said:

First thought, wow NFL dlinemen really get off the ball.

 

Center is covered. So odd man front. D is strong in the center, weak at the edges. Blocking scheme is zone. Line steps one way and gets an area. The double teams other people are mentioning and in the Colts clip is power run. I'll note the RT and Sanders, the WR. You want to get to the edge on that play. RT doesn't get his reach block, and Sanders is getting pushed back.

That's one thing people should look at. WRs and their blocking. Teach them to hold in run and after the catch like they taught the DBs to hold.

This is what I came to say. 
 

Ike could have helped before getting to the LB, but I also think Dawkins is having a rough go and can make that play last year. With all the talk about our interior line, both tackles blew it here I think. 

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Pirate Angel said:

Josh is under center and he turns his back to the defense. We are in the gun, have spread formations, and dont utilize play action. So when the defensive line sees this it allows them to swarm. Was the Jacksonville crowd so loud that Dawkins couldnt use it to his advantage? Was the LG suppose to chip him and peel off? The DT accros from him was inside gap and didnt penetrate the gap first he ran straight towards the ball carrier. Not playing it honest tells me he had a pretty good guess where the ball was going or it was a good defensive call.

 

 

1 hour ago, Pirate Angel said:

Josh is under center and he turns his back to the defense. We are in the gun, have spread formations, and dont utilize play action. So when the defensive line sees this it allows them to swarm. Was the Jacksonville crowd so loud that Dawkins couldnt use it to his advantage? Was the LG suppose to chip him and peel off? The DT accros from him was inside gap and didnt penetrate the gap first he ran straight towards the ball carrier. Not playing it honest tells me he had a pretty good guess where the ball was going or it was a good defensive call.

This is a good enough comment to warrant another thread entirely. I’ve noticed over the last few seasons as well. We telegraph the run a lot based on formation. Josh telegraphs the hand off as well.

 

Via the eye test (no data), we rarely pass with a QB behind center. I think this tends to make life more difficult for our OL and the run game. 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

This is what I came to say. 
 

Ike could have helped before getting to the LB, but I also think Dawkins is having a rough go and can make that play last year. With all the talk about our interior line, both tackles blew it here I think. 

I don’t think there is a LT in the league who’s going to be able to make that block. That’s a missed assignment on Boettger in zone, nothing Dawkins can do except get 15 for cutting the guy or block in the back.

[GoBills808]

You know what, now that I watch that back a few times…that doesn’t really seem like a zone run by the Bills. It looks like a really poorly designed gap scheme that should have been zone blocked but wasn’t.

 

Neither guard makes an attempt at doubling and nobody is really looking to disengage and get to second level. To my eye it looks like a miscommunication on the offensive line.

[John from Riverside]

There is no hole There but when I do look at that play it makes me think if the back head speed he might be able to get the edge that’s not Singleterry maybe it’s Brieda

[LABILLBACKER]

We have 5 finesse olineman. We need 5 road graders. Brown is the closest guy we have as a mauler. It's been so long I don't even know what play action looks like anymore. 

[1ManRaid]

No idea what "he who shall not be named" was looking at, Nightcrawler couldn't find a hole there on the Bills play.

 

Pretty clearly blind anti-Singletary bias.  Devin is being wasted with this crap performance from our O-line.

[JMF2006]

That was good gap control there was no where to go

The only place to go was around the right edge.

Looks like Williams didn't seal that to well either as he gets pushed back

[JoshAllin]

Basically we'd pretty much be 8-0 with the colts OL

[RangerDave]

I can't help but blame Josh Allen.  If he would just instruct our running backs in how to leap over defenders, we wouldn't even need an O-line.  Stupid Josh being lazy!

[ProcessTruster]

Helps when you have a HOF guard who blocks two guys by himself on most plays.   

[davefan66]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

A couple of us were having an argument in the Shoutbox about this play.  One person who shall remain nameless contends that Singletary had a hole to cut into, seen at 4s just after handoff, and that Singletary sucks because he doesn't make a nice cut as the Colts RB does, into said hole.

 

O-line was overrun on the play.  Couldn’t hold blocks (or make blocks) and defensive lineman rode them to where the hole should have been. 
 

Almost seems like they knew exactly where the play was going. 

Lack of a running game isn’t on the RB’s.  It’s the O-line. 

 

 

[Pete]

How come most every opponent's Dline gets much more disruption than ours?

Most offensive lines are not great.  Colts have one of better lines.  Quentin Nelson is why you draft a G high and pay them

[billsfan1959]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

A couple of us were having an argument in the Shoutbox about this play.  One person who shall remain nameless contends that Singletary had a hole to cut into, seen at 4s just after handoff, and that Singletary sucks because he doesn't make a nice cut as the Colts RB does, into said hole.

 

 

I contend that what they see as a hole is because Dawkins defender is already in the backfield charging towards Singletary, and all that trying to cut into that open space would accomplish is let that cat get his mitts on him faster.

 

In contrast, the Colts back has a hole the size of the State of Indiana to cut into.

 

Also I agree with this:

 

Your input please

 

@Buffalo716, anyone else?

 

IMO, Singletary, from the snap, is headed to the hole between RG and RT. He would have had to make the cut pretty quickly and, even if he had, there is no way he makes that cutback without getting crushed before he could even get in the hole. You can see the difference with the Colts' back, as he is headed almost straight into the line and only has to make a slight cut to take advantage of a huge hole (incidentally, the Colts back fails to see the secondary hole. He could have cut slightly to his right and picked up more yardage). IMO, Singletary is focused on the hole he is supposed to go through. If he does see the hole to cut back, then he also has to see the defender closing that hole up.

 

I don't blame this play on Dawkins. The defender is lined up on Boettger's outside shoulder and, to me, there is no way Dawkins is going to be able to get in front of him and block him. Dawkins moves straight to his right and the defender (who only has to move toward the backfield) already has the inside position. The only way this play works is for Boettger to chip the defender before he moves on to blocking the linebacker. That would have allowed Singletary to hit the hole between RG and RT cleanly.

 

If Singletary had hit the hole cleanly, it really wouldn't have mattered, because, again IMO, Ford didn't get his job done properly. Williams kicks out the left end (who has to contain), Morse gets outside the DT and pushes him back, and Ford is supposed to block the LB. Instead of moving forward to meet the LB and move him back, Ford moves laterally. He doesn't even get a half yard off the line of scrimmage before contact with the LB. By not moving forward more quickly, he allows the LB to get outside of him by the time contact is made, which closes the hole.

 

Great play on the defender's part to get inside of Dawkins and move down the line to make the tackle. Not so great communication between Bottger and Dawkins in how to handle the defender given where he lined up at. Bad play by Ford all the way around.

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by billsfan1959

[Gisele]

The first hole is usually not a hole, it's a crease.  Really goods backs anticipate the crease based on blocking assignments and run to that spot.  Our line has been so inconsistent that it would be impossible to anticipate where that crease would be.  And we don't have really good backs.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

9 hours ago, DJB said:

Here is my analysis;

 

Depends upon when you 'drop in' to the meme.

WE SUCK AGAIN(?)

AGAIN WE SUCK(?)

🤔

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

Helps when you have a HOF guard who blocks two guys by himself on most plays.   

This ^^^. Overall we are not athletic, good enough, whatever you want to call it. It limits us and what schemes we can run consistently. We may not want to admit it with 9 games left, but this doesn't get solved during season.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

What is striking about this play is that it seems like the jags did not respect the play action movement at all. If Josh runs play action there, it feels

like it would have been wide open on the other side.