More reason to go pfffffft at PFF

[Lothar]

I don't have a link but Joe Marino's podcast talked about PFF grades for the OL this week and the highest rated lineman for Buffalo?...

 

Yaaas, supposedly it was Cody Ford. 

 

Remind me never to take their grading seriously again.

[Pete]

was it a high rating?  or high for the Bills oline?  That bar is pretty low.  I recall each of them missing blocks at some point

[CSBill]

😳 Yikes!

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Best use for PFF print outs?

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by NoHuddleKelly12

[Hapless Bills Fan]

46 minutes ago, Lothar said:

I don't have a link but Joe Marino's podcast talked about PFF grades for the OL this week and the highest rated lineman for Buffalo?...

 

Yaaas, supposedly it was Cody Ford. 

 

Remind me never to take their grading seriously again.

 

You need reminding?

 

I would take this assessment of Mark Gaughan over PFF grades:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/analysis-a-closer-look-at-the-blocking-blitzing-problems-for-bills-offense/article_49276a0a-40b0-11ec-975d-6f3aa9dba1e1.html

Quote

The biggest struggles on the Bills’ offensive line came from right guard Cody Ford, right tackle Daryl Williams and left guard Ike Boettger.

 

Ford gave up seven hurries, including a sack, according to Buffalo News charting. He gave up a pressure on Josh Allen’s second interception, late in the third quarter. Ford had big trouble with defensive tackle Taven Bryan, a 2018 first-round draft pick who has largely been a bust in his four seasons. He had the first two-sack game of his career. He had amassed only 3.5 total sacks in 54 previous games.

 

Williams, back at tackle due to the injury to Spencer Brown, gave up five hurries and was partly responsible for two sacks.

 

Boettger gave up a hurry on the Bills’ first play from scrimmage, was partly responsible for one of the sacks by Bryan and had the critical false start penalty on a fourth-and-2 situation in the fourth quarter, which killed a Bills scoring threat.

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

54 minutes ago, Lothar said:

I don't have a link but Joe Marino's podcast talked about PFF grades for the OL this week and the highest rated lineman for Buffalo?...

 

Yaaas, supposedly it was Cody Ford. 

 

Remind me never to take their grading seriously again.

this may be accurate— because I saw a lot worse play from the other linemen. 

[dave mcbride]

55 minutes ago, Lothar said:

I don't have a link but Joe Marino's podcast talked about PFF grades for the OL this week and the highest rated lineman for Buffalo?...

 

Yaaas, supposedly it was Cody Ford. 

 

Remind me never to take their grading seriously again.

I’d love to see that link because that was one of the worst performances I’ve seen by a single offensive lineman for the Bills in decades upon decades of watching this team. When he wasn’t getting destroyed, he was blocking the wrong person. Did PFF give him extra high grades for triple teaming one DT while the other one had a free run to Allen?

Edited November 10, 2021 by dave mcbride

[LeGOATski]

55 minutes ago, Pete said:

was it a high rating?  or high for the Bills oline?  That bar is pretty low.  I recall each of them missing blocks at some point

68.5 or something like that. Just from listening to the pod. I haven't checked PFF myself.

 

They have a good database of stats, but for the life me I don't know why anyone would trust their grades or analysis.

[34-78-83]

 

Cover1 Film Review >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PFF Grades of O-line play

[benderbender]

5 hours ago, Lothar said:

I don't have a link but Joe Marino's podcast talked about PFF grades for the OL this week and the highest rated lineman for Buffalo?...

 

Yaaas, supposedly it was Cody Ford. 

 

Remind me never to take their grading seriously again.

At least Ford wasn’t doing this on a must have 3rd down

 

[78thealltimegreat]

2 minutes ago, benderbender said:

At least Ford wasn’t doing this on a must have 3rd down

 

Holy Moly is it possible to go below the 30th rated oline which is where they currently rank 

[MJS]

This is the type of game you just try to move on from. Let's hope Brown is back so they can kick Williams back inside and bench Ford for Ike. I'm done seeing anything more from Cody Ford. I get that he will probably have to play some in the future, but I hope he is a last resort from now on.

 

Also, I'd be happy to see Bates get some snaps. I've always thought Bates was a quality olineman. I'd rather him play and develop than Ford.

6 minutes ago, benderbender said:

At least Ford wasn’t doing this on a must have 3rd down

 

Looks like he had no clue the ball was snapped, maybe he had his eyes closed and didn't notice all of the defense starting to move.

 

Or, he is playing badly on purpose because he is discontent and wants to be released? He had some really, really bad plays.

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

I’d love to see that link because that was one of the worst performances I’ve seen by a single offensive lineman for the Bills in decades upon decades of watching this team. When he wasn’t getting destroyed, he was blocking the wrong person. Did PFF give him extra high grades for triple teaming one DT while the other one had a free run to Allen?

 

 

As a point of reference a 60 PFF grade is considered average. Ford received a 68.3 overall; 61.7 pass blocking, 82.3 run blocking. Don't try to make sense of it. PFF's grading system is completely arbitrary.

[JoPoy88]

PFF is and always has been a subjective “ranking” org. They post pure stats too, sure. I’d bet they pull most of them from other reputable sites. But “pff player rankings?” Please no. They’re garbage. They’re worse than ESPN’s QBR. They don’t even disclose the “analysts” that watch the games and assign these scores. It’s pure ****.

[Doc Brown]

I finally was able to stomach it and re-watched the condensed game just focusing on the o-line. Cody Ford played a LOT better than I thought he played.  Probably the best of the five imo.  One sack was completely on him but that's about it.  Jacksonville ran some stunts that confused Morse for another sack.  Ford seemed to get the best push the few times we did run the ball.  Dawkins and Williams were god awful.  Color me surprised as I was with everyone who got the pitch forks out for Ford.

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, Lothar said:

I don't have a link but Joe Marino's podcast talked about PFF grades for the OL this week and the highest rated lineman for Buffalo?...

 

Yaaas, supposedly it was Cody Ford. 

 

Remind me never to take their grading seriously again.

 

 

 

So, you've watched the film yourself and compared their performance, right?

 

Because if you haven't you're only revealing a cognitive bias and that you're perfectly happy operating that way.

 

If you've watched the film and disagree, fair enough, that leaves plenty of room to disagree and make a ton of sense. If not ...

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

68.5 or something like that. Just from listening to the pod. I haven't checked PFF myself.

 

They have a good database of stats, but for the life me I don't know why anyone would trust their grades or analysis.

 

 

Because NFL teams pay for their info. That's why some amount of trust is reasonable. They wouldn't do that if the PFF folks were incompetent.

 

Not that that means you have to agree with any of their specific conclusions. Disagreement backed by other data is totally reasonable.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Lothar]

11 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

So, you've watched the film yourself and compared their performance, right?

 

Because if you haven't you're only revealing a cognitive bias and that you're perfectly happy operating that way.

 

If you've watched the film and disagree, fair enough, that leaves plenty of room to disagree and make a ton of sense. If not ...

 

Well, I did see the game but no, I haven't seen the All 22 myself. But Joe Marino and Cover 1 have broken down several of the plays - and I trust what they're seeing. Rather than rebuke me for my opinion, perhaps comment on why you think Ford played well. I know the whole OL was bad but go watch some of the guys who look at the trenches describe what they saw.

[Thurman#1]

36 minutes ago, Lothar said:

 

Well, I did see the game but no, I haven't seen the All 22 myself. But Joe Marino and Cover 1 have broken down several of the plays - and I trust what they're seeing. Rather than rebuke me for my opinion, perhaps comment on why you think Ford played well. I know the whole OL was bad but go watch some of the guys who look at the trenches describe what they saw.

 

 

Yeah, they're smart too.

 

But if they are only breaking down several of the plays, they could be right and PFF could also be right.

 

I do intend to do that. But I haven't yet, and thus don't really consider myself capable of commenting at this point.

 

I'm not rebuking your opinion, I'm criticizing the ad hominem stuff that we see here constantly ... it's PFF so it must be wrong, it's Cody Ford so he must suck, I don't have to look.

 

Now that I see PFF and Gaughan disagree after examining the film, it makes me want to take a look.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I finally was able to stomach it and re-watched the condensed game just focusing on the o-line. Cody Ford played a LOT better than I thought he played.  Probably the best of the five imo.  One sack was completely on him but that's about it.  Jacksonville ran some stunts that confused Morse for another sack.  Ford seemed to get the best push the few times we did run the ball.  Dawkins and Williams were god awful.  Color me surprised as I was with everyone who got the pitch forks out for Ford.

 

The problem is the DEs were getting super far up field - which traditionally you just... let them do that. You've created a rush lane for allen to escape, and you've created space to step up in the pocket.  But in this game the twists and stunts and 5 man fronts they saw just confused the hell out of the interior so it was constantly muddy.  Boettger looked absolutely lost out there.