Wyatt Teller-the one that got away

[RyanC883]

On 11/9/2021 at 8:45 AM, WIDE LEFT said:

One overlooked item here and elsewhere is the role of our offensive line coach. First off, even with several years together, this line has regressed. But to the Wyatt point, it’s important to remember that these moves are not made in a vacuum. The position coach has considerable input when it comes to player evaluation. He is the guy working with and evaluating these guys everyday. So apparently our O line coach’s evaluation of Teller was way off the mark. Way off. A one time mistake? Don’t think so. This same coach had mini camps, training camp & preseason to evaluation our O lineman. His genius evaluation was that Cody Ford should be a starter. That didn’t last long, and calls into question this guys ability to evaluate and develop O lineman. Which is a big part of his job.

 

someone seriously is  doing a poor evolution of OL talent.  They were not great last year and got us beat in the AFCCG, and then we didn't draft one until the 3rd round.  I think the OL coach is a huge issue.  

20 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

The Teller thing is hard to process.  O Line play is a bit of a black box to most fans including me.  But given how bad the Bills O-Line has played and that the Bills traded away one of the best Guards in the NFL for a 6th rounder suggests something ain’t right.  Add in two 3rd round running backs that look pretty bad the majority of the time and paying Spain then cutting him weeks into the season.  Things kind of points to the running scheme or the lack of will to run the ball.  Not the players.  Bloom has certainly come off the Daboll rose pretty quickly.  

 

Daboll and his horrendous play calling is also part of the issue.  It's easy to defend a one dimensional offense.  

On 11/9/2021 at 9:00 AM, Bob in STL said:

Exactly.  I was told that numerous times last year when I said we could take a guard in the first or second round if there is a sure starter there.  I can see us taking Rousseau at 1, but not another DE at 2.  
 

Athletic guards that are strong at pass blocking and run blocking are not easy to find.  

 

bingo.  The rd. 2 pick should have been C Creed Humphry, who is graded as a 1st team all-pro per PFF.  

 

 

[starrymessenger]

I’m all for prioritizing the interior o-line in the draft but honestly idk how folks reliably evaluate players at those positions. Ford and Risner were both highly touted and almost interchangeable as far as their desirability was concerned. Beane obviously met with both. Most observers felt that Risner was going to move inside. Maybe the Bills thought Ford could play tackle in the nfl. Except for Nelson who is on his way to the hall you’ve got supposed generational talents drafted high in the first round who busted. Greg Robinson most recently and then the 2013 fiasco with Cooper and Warmack. Then you’ve got a late round Teller whose in the discussion as amongst the best. There must be something about interior line play at the professional level that makes even apparently obvious picks risky even when experts are making them.

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

That’s just not true.

As an example, you could put EJ Manuel in the very best scheme with the very best coach and with him working his tail off non-stop and he still wouldn’t be very good.

 

The Bills missed on Teller. There is no reason to excuse that. Even with the Bills he showed excellent pass blocking abilities:

 

 

And he was excellent pass blocking in college as well.

 

 

It's funny because you literally need to bring up like the biggest quarterback Bust in bills history 

 

Sure maybe EJ Manuel would not have been a superstar in the NFL... But he was supposed to be a late round pick that we took in the first round 

 

If we took him where he was supposed to go he would have no expectations

 

If a fifth round pick got taken round one and got thrown to the fire.. the outcome would look exactly like what we got

 

Somebody who looks lost and flames out of the NFL

 

EJ needed years sitting on the bench... like Some quarterbacks do and he didn't get it 

 

Fields needs to sit in Chicago.. or he will be out of the league sooner than later 

 

Quarterback is the hardest position in all of sports... A great quarterback can transcend a scheme or system... 

 

Most of the players in the NFL are role players and system players... Players who can produce in a certain scheme or 2 but not in another

 

Jordan poyer was a jag in Cleveland... In McDermott system he's a star

 

Tre white in our combo zone system has been an all pro twice... playing 70% man he would still be good.. but not the star he is

 

Undrafted Levi Wallace , is a bona fide starter in Sean scheme... He cannot just go to any defensive system and produce the same... The system is letting his talents shine

 

Unless you are the top 10-15% percent of the NFL and a star... Your career could be made or lost because of going to the right place and system

 

30% of the league is undrafted free agents.. there's a lot of talent everywhere.. they just need to land in the right spot 

 

Teller might've turned himself into a star.. but he wasn't flashing that here.. and even when we traded him to Cleveland he didn't look like an All-Pro that first year.. coming into last season he really transformed himself

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Einstein]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Teller might've turned himself into a star.. but he wasn't flashing that here.. and even when we traded him to Cleveland he didn't look like an All-Pro that first year.. coming into last season he really transformed himself

 

 

 

 

He was flashing that here.

 

Thus the tweet I included in the post that you quoted.

 

.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Einstein

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

He was flashing that here.

 

Thus the tweet I included in the post that you quoted.

 

.

https://hokiesports.com/news/2021/2/11/wyatt-teller-earns-top-20-ranking-from-pro-football-focus.aspx

 

"Best run blocker in the NFL"...  

 

"His pass blocking wasn't stellar" .

 

That was during his All pro year

 

Your cherry picking a preseason game for the Buffalo Bills when he's playing against guys bagging groceries.. 

 

He wasn't even stellar his first year in Cleveland... He graded out lower than he did in Buffalo 

 

He is a vastly different player today than what he was here

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

https://hokiesports.com/news/2021/2/11/wyatt-teller-earns-top-20-ranking-from-pro-football-focus.aspx

 

"Best run blocker in the NFL"...  

 

"His pass blocking wasn't stellar" .

 

That was during his All pro year

 

Your cherry picking a preseason game for the Buffalo Bills when he's playing against guys bagging groceries.. 

 

He wasn't even stellar his first year in Cleveland... He graded out lower than he did in Buffalo 

 

He is a vastly different player today than what he was here

 

 

 

As much as I’d like to trust HokieSports.com - lol.

 

Here are more stats, this time including his regular season stint with the Bills:

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Einstein

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

As much as I’d like to trust HokieSports.com - lol.

 

Here are more stats, this time including his regular season stint with the Bills:

 

 

They Took their grades from PFF that season... Played at Virginia tech so they wrote the article  

 

60 grade in 2018.. 56 in 2019 with the browns to 92.9 in 20

 

He really improved

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Einstein]

26 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

They Took their grades from PFF that season... Played at Virginia tech so they wrote the article  

 

60 grade in 2018.. 56 in 2019 with the browns to 92.9 in 20

 

He really improved

 

 

 

 

 

7th among all NFL G’s in pass blocking in 2018. With the Bills.

[NewEra]

On 11/9/2021 at 7:41 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yes they were...we got something out of a reserve OL.  Wyatt Teller is their Jerry Hughes.

Except he plays a lesser position and gets paid over 14M a year now.  As does their other guard. 30M invested in OG lol.  I’d rather have a crap OL than spend that much money on 2 guards, regardless of how good they are

[Buffalo716]

21 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

7th among all NFL G’s in pass blocking in 2018. With the Bills.

"PFF gave Teller the best run-blocking grade of any guard in 2020, but noted his pass protection wasn't nearly at the same level. He allowed 14 pressures and three sacks last season. "

 

Listen nobody's saying he's not a good football player... But he's a lot better run blocking then he is pass blocking 

 

The same site that you list to praise him is the same one saying he's not nearly as good in that department

Edited November 11, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Einstein]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Except he plays a lesser position and gets paid over 14M a year now.  As does their other guard. 30M invested in OG lol.  I’d rather have a crap OL than spend that much money on 2 guards, regardless of how good they are

You can’t be serious.

 

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

PFF gave Teller the best run-blocking grade of any guard in 2020, but noted his pass protection wasn't nearly at the same level. He allowed 14 pressures and three sacks last season. 

 

Listen nobody's saying he's not a good football player... But he's a lot better run blocking then he is pass blocking 

 

The same site that you list to praise him is the same one saying he's not nearly as good in that department

 

You seem to be flip-flopping timeframes a bit.

 

Are we talking about who he is now, or are we talking about who he was when the Bills let him walk?

 

When the Bills let him walk, he was 7th among all Guards in pass blocking.

Right now, of course his pass blocking is not as good as his run blocking. His run blocking is the best of all players. His pass blocking couldn’t possibly be better. 
 

This year, through 9 games, he has allowed 1 sack.

 

I agree that he is a better run blocker, but it would be disingenuous to say that he is a bad pass blocker.

 

 

.

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Einstein

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

You can’t be serious.

 

 

You seem to be flip-flopping a bit.

 

Are we talking about who he is now, or are we talking about who he was when the Bills let him walk?

 

When the Bills let him walk, he was 7th among all Guards in pass blocking.

Right now, of course his pass blocking is not as good as his run blocking. His run blocking is the best of all players. His pass blocking couldn’t possibly be better. 
 

This year, through 9 games, he has allowed 1 sack.

 

 

.

 

Among unqualified guards with limited snaps

 

And there's been a lot of players who have played well in limited snaps.. then got a full load and struggled 

 

I don't even care what PFF says I think the site's a joke... Feliciano was also rated higher than teller in 19

 

No matter what any site says wyatt teller did not look like an All pro guard with the Buffalo Bills... He was losing the job to journeyman..  he didn't win it convincingly 

 

According to PFF feliciano didn't allow a sack last year.. nobody thinks he's a great pass blocker

Edited November 11, 2021 by Buffalo716

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Einstein said:

You can’t be serious.

 

 

You seem to be flip-flopping timeframes a bit.

 

Are we talking about who he is now, or are we talking about who he was when the Bills let him walk?

 

When the Bills let him walk, he was 7th among all Guards in pass blocking.

Right now, of course his pass blocking is not as good as his run blocking. His run blocking is the best of all players. His pass blocking couldn’t possibly be better. 
 

This year, through 9 games, he has allowed 1 sack.

 

I agree that he is a better run blocker, but it would be disingenuous to say that he is a bad pass blocker.

 

 

.

 

Yes, I can.  You can feel however you like.  I don’t think there’s any way Beane would ever pay 2 guards 30M a year.  There are other ways to build a good OL than to have 2 of the highest paid guards in the league.  That’s not how I would choose to spend the money left over after paying our QB 43M. 
 

I get that you want to build a great OL.  So do it.  I’d go about it a different way.  The salary cap is real.  

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Among unqualified guards with limited snaps

 

And there's been a lot of players who have played well in limited snaps.. then got a full load and struggled 

 

I don't even care what PFF says I think the site's a joke... Feliciano was also rated higher than teller in 19

 

No matter what any site says wyatt teller did not look like an All pro guard with the Buffalo Bills... He was losing the job to journeyman..  he didn't win it convincingly 

 

According to PFF feliciano didn't allow a sack last year.. nobody thinks he's a great pass blocker

 

Ok…

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yes, I can.  You can feel however you like.  I don’t think there’s any way Beane would ever pay 2 guards 30M a year.  There are other ways to build a good OL than to have 2 of the highest paid guards in the league.  That’s not how I would choose to spend the money left over after paying our QB 43M. 
 

I get that you want to build a great OL.  So do it.  I’d go about it a different way.  The salary cap is real.  

 

What way would you go about building it? 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Ok…

 

What way would you go about building it? 

Zero sacks allowed according to PFF

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Ok…

 

What way would you go about building it? 

Easy. I would’ve done things differently.  Like draft creed Humphrey instead of Basham.  Like draft Trey smith instead of any of the late round guys we drafted.  Then we’d have 2 solid starters for the next 4 years making 1M a year.  

[Einstein]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Zero sacks allowed according to PFF

 

Ok…

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Easy. I would’ve done things differently.  Like draft creed Humphrey instead of Basham.  Like draft Trey smith instead of any of the late round guys we drafted.  Then we’d have 2 solid starters for the next 4 years making 1M a year.  

 

Thats certainly an option but draft picks are not guaranteed to be good. 

 

You could (in theory) spend numerous picks on the line and then watch them fail as Allen runs away from pass rushers.

[FireChans]

7 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

someone seriously is  doing a poor evolution of OL talent.  They were not great last year and got us beat in the AFCCG, and then we didn't draft one until the 3rd round.  I think the OL coach is a huge issue.  

 

Daboll and his horrendous play calling is also part of the issue.  It's easy to defend a one dimensional offense.  

 

bingo.  The rd. 2 pick should have been C Creed Humphry, who is graded as a 1st team all-pro per PFF.  

 

 

Daboll keeps the calling the worst top 5 offense I’ve ever seen, back to back years too.

Edited November 11, 2021 by FireChans

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Ok…

 

Thats certainly an option but draft picks are not guaranteed to be good. 

 

You could (in theory) spend numerous picks on the line and then watch them fail as Allen runs away from pass rushers.

 

That’s what I would have done.  Yes, there’s a chance the picks don’t turn out.  There’s also a chance that the guys that you pay regress.  If we paid 2 guards 30M than we’d have to let other good players go and replace them in the draft.  Like you said, not guaranteed to be good. Spend $ on the most valuable positions.  The OL is definitely VERY important and I view it as our biggest priority going forward, but paying 30M for 2 guards is just a poor allocation of resources imo.  

I wouldn’t have paid Feliciano that much money.  He’s not worth his salary and not a worthy starter in the nfl. 
 

I would’ve paid Daryl initially, but then we drafted Brown.  In hindsight (yeah, too late) I wouldn’t have.  He’s really regressed this year.  
 

I’d be happy with dawkins-Creed (then move to C next year)-Morse-Smith-Brown.  
the players we currently have in Creeds position are bad.  The players that we currently have in Smiths position are bad as well.  
 

[Sherlock Holmes]

On 11/9/2021 at 12:04 PM, BearNorth said:

Ali Marpet for example who went to college 100 miles from the OP.  Meanwhile our #2 pick is inactive most weeks.

Love Marpet!]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Easy. I would’ve done things differently.  Like draft creed Humphrey instead of Basham.  Like draft Trey smith instead of any of the late round guys we drafted.  Then we’d have 2 solid starters for the next 4 years making 1M a year.  

Creed