So, 8 games in, here’s what I think…

[ColoradoBills]

Well it seems to me that this may not be a "one or the other" situation when it comes to the offense.

 

The OL is playing poorly.  That's a fact.

Talent, coaching and play calling all factor in.

 

The RBs are playing poorly.  Sure the OL is a big factor in that be not the only one.

Both Singletary and Moss cannot get to the edge.  That's a fact and makes run defense much easier for teams.

The Bills running game is totally one dimensional.

 

I'll repeat my views that I would like to see.   3 RBs dress for every game.  I want a speedy back, a big power back and an all around back.

The weekly opponent determines who gets the most snaps that week. 

[Logic]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

Well it seems to me that this may not be a "one or the other" situation when it comes to the offense.

 

The OL is playing poorly.  That's a fact.

Talent, coaching and play calling all factor in.

 

The RBs are playing poorly.  Sure the OL is a big factor in that be not the only one.

Both Singletary and Moss cannot get to the edge.  That's a fact and makes run defense much easier for teams.

The Bills running game is totally one dimensional.

 

I'll repeat my views that I would like to see.   3 RBs dress for every game.  I want a speedy back, a big power back and an all around back.

The weekly opponent determines who gets the most snaps that week. 

I definitely feel like it's time to give Matt Breida some snaps.

Moss and Singletary have shown that they can be effective backs. The problem is that neither is good enough to transcend a woeful offensive line. Elite running backs can sometimes do that. Moss and Singletary, obviously are not elite.

Matt Breida obviously isn't elite, either, but perhaps his world class speed can make up for some of the offensive line struggles. Whereas Moss and Singletary's "good runs" these days seem to mean a 4 yard gain, perhaps Breida's speed would enable him to turn that 4 yards into 14 yards. Moss and Singletary simply don't have the speed to easily get past the second level of the defense.

One thing's for sure: it would be hard for Breida to be any worse than what we've seen the past few weeks.

[dave mcbride]

37 minutes ago, Pete said:

The line is atrocious.  That we can agree on.  Still, Singletary has one 100 yard game and 5 TDs in his 3 year career.  Moss has zero.  How many years are you going to evaluate?

In Marshawn Lynch’s final season and a half in Buffalo, many people on this board said he was too slow and not really all that good. It turns out that the advanced stats showed that he led all RBs the league in being hit behind the LOS in terms of percentage. People were happy to see him go not just for the off-field stuff, but because they felt he was mediocre and a worse player than Fred Jackson. Lynch will be in the HOF eventually.

 

You see where I’m going with this. The Bills RBs aren’t the real problem.

Edited November 9, 2021 by dave mcbride

[clayboy54]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

In Marshawn Lynch’s final season and a half in Buffalo, many people on this board said was too slow and not really all that good. It turns out that the advanced stats showed that he led all RBs the league in being hit behind the LOS in terms of percentage. People were happy to see him go not just for the off-field stuff, but because they felt he was mediocre and a worse player than Fred Jackson. Lynch will be in the HOF eventually.

 

You see where I’m going with this. The Bills RBs aren’t the real problem.

I know, it's Ralph Wilson!

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

I definitely feel like it's time to give Matt Breida some snaps.

Moss and Singletary have shown that they can be effective backs. The problem is that neither is good enough to transcend a woeful offensive line. Elite running backs can sometimes do that. Moss and Singletary, obviously are not elite.

Matt Breida obviously isn't elite, either, but perhaps his world class speed can make up for some of the offensive line struggles. Whereas Moss and Singletary's "good runs" these days seem to mean a 4 yard gain, perhaps Breida's speed would enable him to turn that 4 yards into 14 yards. Moss and Singletary simply don't have the speed to easily get past the second level of the defense.

One thing's for sure: it would be hard for Breida to be any worse than what we've seen the past few weeks.

 

I agree he should dress and get another shot.  4 snaps in the Pittsburgh game is not enough for an evaluation IMO.

The whole situation will have to wait for next season but you got to try to use what you have this season.

If he is worthless (as some here suggest) then move on from him and elevate Antonio Williams.

 

Beane, McDermott and Daboll have to attempt a fix because the status quo is not working and it's giving teams a good starting

point to game plan against.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 hours ago, eball said:

• We currently have an average (at best) OL, but Dawkins is a good player, Morse is a good player, and Brown shows promise.  Williams looks passable at RG.  Cody Ford should never see the field again.  I’d like to see Bates get in there.  The problem seems to be a lack of identity and an inability to transition from pass blocking to run blocking; I am not savvy enough to understand if this is an issue of talent or coaching, but I’m leaning towards the latter.
• We have RBs who do not strike fear into any defense, mostly because they can’t get more than a 1/2 yard past the LOS before encountering contact.
• We have a top 5 QB who tries to (and usually can) do everything to will his team to victory.
• We have a top 5 WR corps.
• We have a top 5 defense.
• We have a top 5 placekicker.

 

1. Dawkins has stunk this year. A definite regression. Morse is 'ok' but we know he struggles to anchor against large DTs. Daryl Williams is playing like the guy who blew out his knee in Carolina now. Feliciano is bad, Ford is a bust. 

 

The narrative after Week 1 against the Steelers was, nobody else has those type of players on the Defensive Line to do that to the Bills. This has been exposed as false. Our line is just a bad offensive line. Josh makes it look easy as he gets out of most pressure. 

 

 

2. Our RBs are slow. Just like their Scouting Reports said. I liked the idea of dumping McCoy and ending this reverent attitude towards him. I think Moss stinks. I think he is a slow plodder. I think the Bills become obsessed at times getting him the ball, immediately taking Singletary off the field in the Red Zone. 

 

 

3. Allen is around the Top 5 I agree. His competitive fire is fun to watch. I loved that run against Tennessee on 3rd-6, he did everything it took to try and win that game. I feel like his arm is somewhat overrated, and not the clear runaway leader in the league, but he is a playmaker with escapability. 

 

There are these conversations I don't think are true, that Josh can be confused. I think we have no run game, and sometimes asking Josh to be our leader, leading rusher, elite passer, avoid sacks, takes it's toll. 

 

We have no deep ball, and haven't since 2018 with Foster. Josh doesn't throw it accurately, and we don't have the WRs for this. 

 

 

4. Top 5? I don't think so. Diggs disappears too often this season. He dominated targets last year. This year, its 6-60. Sanders is alright, Beasley is alright, but neither guy can carry the offense. Gabe Davis has regressed due to no playing time. And after that there are no up and coming players. Isaiah McKenzie has been rendered useless in this offense. 

 

Would you rather have the Bengals group, or the Chargers, or the Cowboys, or the Rams, or the 49ers, Bucs or Cardinals? The Bills need to add a physical mismatch. I think we're trending back towards the smurfs. 

 

We do not have an AJ Brown or DK Metcalf. Diggs is a middle depth possession WR. 

 

 

5. Defense, I agree with you, with the caveat that our Defensive Line will probably not get pressure in Playoff games. They struggle to generate sacks. But the Back 7 is strong, save an injury to White. Veteran group that has been kept intact. 

 

 

6. Agree, I like Bass.  

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Straight Hucklebuck

[ColoradoBills]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

You see where I’m going with this. The Bills RBs aren’t the real problem.

 

That may be true but a variety of running back skills may lessen the issues.  It's mid season and it seems to me you can't just

give up the running game.

[Logic]

6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I agree he should dress and get another shot.  4 snaps in the Pittsburgh game is not enough for an evaluation IMO.

The whole situation will have to wait for next season but you got to try to use what you have this season.

If he is worthless (as some here suggest) then move on from him and elevate Antonio Williams.

 

Beane, McDermott and Daboll have to attempt a fix because the status quo is not working and it's giving teams a good starting

point to game plan against.

Additionally, with teams employing the "Cover 2 shell" strategy against Buffalo and forcing lots of underneath passes, Breida might be more of a weapon as a receiver. Allen threw quite a few passes to Singletary on Sunday. No one seriously thinks Singletary is any kind of run-after-catch threat. Breida at least MIGHT be, given his speed.

I agree with you: The status quo is not working. They've got to try SOMETHING new.

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

Additionally, with teams employing the "Cover 2 shell" strategy against Buffalo and forcing lots of underneath passes, Breida might be more of a weapon as a receiver. Allen threw quite a few passes to Singletary on Sunday. No one seriously thinks Singletary is any kind of run-after-catch threat. Breida at least MIGHT be, given his speed.

I agree with you: The status quo is not working. They've got to try SOMETHING new.

 

It makes sense too that when opposing Ds don't fear the outside of the tackle runs the DEs/OLBs can forget about their contain

roles and tee off more on pass rushes.  Yes something has to be attempted to repair this as best as possible.

[Pete]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

In Marshawn Lynch’s final season and a half in Buffalo, many people on this board said he was too slow and not really all that good. It turns out that the advanced stats showed that he led all RBs the league in being hit behind the LOS in terms of percentage. People were happy to see him go not just for the off-field stuff, but because they felt he was mediocre and a worse player than Fred Jackson. Lynch will be in the HOF eventually.

 

You see where I’m going with this. The Bills RBs aren’t the real problem.

If thats the case Dave, how come neither Devin or Moss could bust a cover 2?  Any RB worth his salt should be able to bust a cover 2 IMO

[cDAVIS]

6 hours ago, eball said:

• We currently have an average (at best) OL, but Dawkins is a good player, Morse is a good player, and Brown shows promise.  Williams looks passable at RG.  Cody Ford should never see the field again.  I’d like to see Bates get in there.  The problem seems to be a lack of identity and an inability to transition from pass blocking to run blocking; I am not savvy enough to understand if this is an issue of talent or coaching, but I’m leaning towards the latter.
• We have RBs who do not strike fear into any defense, mostly because they can’t get more than a 1/2 yard past the LOS before encountering contact.
• We have a top 5 QB who tries to (and usually can) do everything to will his team to victory.
• We have a top 5 WR corps.
• We have a top 5 defense.
• We have a top 5 placekicker.

 

With the above combination the Bills are most certainly still a legitimate Super Bowl contender, but they have flaws on offense the coaching staff must scheme around.  Daboll needs to look at what the OL can and can’t do, understand the way defenses are playing us, and devise a plan early in games to get the defense into the looks we want to see.  He also needs to adjust during the game.  He did this against Miami; I have no explanation for why he did not against Jacksonville.

 

I knew this place would be a wreck after Sunday’s game.  It was disgusting to watch.  I’m not buying the “they didn’t care enough” b.s. (I mean, look at how the defense played) but someone needs to light a fire under the OL and get them to show some pride in what they are doing.  How can they look at Josh taking a beating, and the way he addressed the media after the game, and not take it personally?

 

I look forward to seeing what Bills team comes out on Sunday against a team we should most certainly handle.  It will say a great deal about the rest of the season.

 

Cheers.

Awesome write up man. I agree with everything you said except I think we have a far below average o line. But seriously, it's nice to see level headed thinkers and not just cryasses everywhere. Teams have bad games. Brady/Rodgers/Manning all have had AWFUL games. Josh will bounce back, might not be this week but he will.

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

1. Dawkins has stunk this year. A definite regression. Morse is 'ok' but we know he struggles to anchor against large DTs. Daryl Williams is playing like the guy who blew out his knee in Carolina now. Feliciano is bad, Ford is a bust. 

 

The narrative after Week 1 against the Steelers was, nobody else has those type of players on the Defensive Line to do that to the Bills. This has been exposed as false. Our line is just a bad offensive line. Josh makes it look easy as he gets out of most pressure. 

 

 

2. Our RBs are slow. Just like their Scouting Reports said. I liked the idea of dumping McCoy and ending this reverent attitude towards him. I think Moss stinks. I think he is a slow plodder. I think the Bills become obsessed at times getting him the ball, immediately taking Singletary off the field in the Red Zone. 

 

 

3. Allen is around the Top 5 I agree. His competitive fire is fun to watch. I loved that run against Tennessee on 3rd-6, he did everything it took to try and win that game. I feel like his arm is somewhat overrated, and not the clear runaway leader in the league, but he is a playmaker with escapability. 

 

There are these conversations I don't think are true, that Josh can be confused. I think we have no run game, and sometimes asking Josh to be our leader, leading rusher, elite passer, avoid sacks, takes it's toll. 

 

We have no deep ball, and haven't since 2018 with Foster. Josh doesn't throw it accurately, and we don't have the WRs for this. 

 

 

4. Top 5? I don't think so. Diggs disappears too often this season. He dominated targets last year. This year, its 6-60. Sanders is alright, Beasley is alright, but neither guy can carry the offense. Gabe Davis has regressed due to no playing time. And after that there are no up and coming players. Isaiah McKenzie has been rendered useless in this offense. 

 

Would you rather have the Bengals group, or the Chargers, or the Cowboys, or the Rams, or the 49ers, Bucs or Cardinals? The Bills need to add a physical mismatch. I think we're trending back towards the smurfs. 

 

We do not have an AJ Brown or DK Metcalf. Diggs is a middle depth possession WR. 

 

 

5. Defense, I agree with you, with the caveat that our Defensive Line will probably not get pressure in Playoff games. They struggle to generate sacks. But the Back 7 is strong, save an injury to White. Veteran group that has been kept intact. 

 

 

6. Agree, I like Bass.  

 

 

I agree with a lot here, minus the Allen arm talent critique.. his arm is absolutely absurd and he's been throwing the deep ball better.

 

I particularly agree with your view of our WR's.  We have a good group, but we also overrate them.  And much like defenses have been able to slow down Hill, they've also been able to do so (to a degree) with Diggs.  Both guys have elite traits:  Diggs - Route Running and Hill - Speed, but neither has the intimidating physical factor that is always open.  

[Nihilarian]

6 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   Agree on Ford…. Abysmal 👿

   Seemed like a couple times,in the Jags game, Motor had a beautiful hole and cut it back into a defender. Seems to be a “vision” issue. He also runs square into defenders. He never seems to work angles at point of contact.

    My receiver/offensive scheme problem is this: We don’t get YAC. 
Diggs will go down instead of accepting contact. Sometimes I think this is prudent but other times there is a potential seam between defenders and he doesn’t try to exploit it.

    Beasely runs in a circle and falls… always. 
   Sanders has blocking issues( last game at least)

     Daboll needs to scheme more shallow crossers and slants and we need to take the shorter stuff by design sometimes.

This tells me it's coaching. 

 

If the line can't hold their blocks for the mid to deep passes then change the calls. Work that short passing game to just move the chains.

 

You know... like the Patriots do...since the Bills are running their offense or at least have their playbook. 

 

The thing is that Patriots scheme "Erhardt-Perkins" used a "smash mouth" running attack. Throw to score, run to win. Run play action to setup the deep pass. The Bills don't have any of this and just go with the deep passing part of that offense.

 

Unless Daboll gets his head right... I just don't see this team sweeping the Patriots this year...or even the Jets.

 

NFL Teams simply can't be one dimensional as opponents figure out how to stop that passing offense ... and then what? Keep passing like they did against the Jags, Steelers?

 

Like I mentioned in another thread. The way to defeat that cover 2 shell is to work the TE. Tommy Sweeny saw only 2 targets for 2 catches all game against the Jags.

 

Inability to adapt to what opponents are doing to stop you...COACHING! 

[MasterStrategist]

I'd like to see how many OLs hold up on pass pro, consistently, when dropping back 50x and running only 10x a game.  

 

McDermott said the equivalent, we need better balance.

 

I put this squarely on Daboll to scheme a better run game, and/or mix in the playaction and rollouts.  I mean we only have a huge/mobile Qb, yet drop into shotgun for almost all our plays.  

 

We tried to come out in 12 personnel and playaction in 2nd half, but had a false start.  This is what we need to be mixing in more of, get creative with formations, etc.  

 

way too much reliance on Josh talent this year, and just leaving our OL out to dry when the Dline glean pin their ears back and LBs can drop into their hook/curl zones

[John from Riverside]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think we have a bad Oline. When it plays at its best it is sort of average. On its bad days like Sunday it is a total liability.

 

EDIT: I should also say while I agree Dion is a good player he hasn't looked right all year to me. We had a centre half at Arsenal last year get a bad bout of Covid at xmas and after 2 months out he came back and was not nearly the same player. Took him the summer break and the new season to get back to his level. I have to believe we are not going to see Dion at his true level in 2021. 

It is amazing how much better this OL would look if we had solid OG play

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

If thats the case Dave, how come neither Devin or Moss could bust a cover 2?  Any RB worth his salt should be able to bust a cover 2 IMO

Because the line is blocking so poorly that they are getting hit immediately. They did bust a cover 2 last season vs NE when they ground the Pats into dust. The Pats were playing to stop the pass all game. The line has really been playing badly. I will confess to really liking Moss’s game - he is a downhill, punishing runner, but the situation right now sucks for him. Put him on the Browns as a starter, and people would be talking pro bowl for him.

Edited November 9, 2021 by dave mcbride

[frostbitmic]

When 5 O-linemen can't block 4 defensive players, it's time to bring in a 6th lineman for both running and passing plays.

[mabden]

On 11/9/2021 at 11:46 AM, Pete said:

The line is atrocious.  That we can agree on.  Still, Singletary has one 100 yard game and 5 TDs in his 3 year career.  Moss has zero.  How many years are you going to evaluate?

 

All running behind, essentially, the same group of OL personnel with variations in their combinations.

[Nextmanup]

Without a line that can open holes, there is no point in spending on a RB.

 

In fact, that's no point in spending a lot on a RB at all!

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 11/9/2021 at 7:36 AM, BuffaloRebound said:

I suspect if we lose to the Jets, we’ll find out how the offense feels about the coaching.  Zero balance and no commitment to the run… my guess is the O-Line feels like they’re not put in a position to succeed.  They’re certainly playing that way.  

We run the ball a good amount it’s just so ineffective that fans don’t seem to notice lol our rbs are getting hit behind the LOS on every carry. I think we’d be better if we ran the ball less at this point honestly…our run blocking is not good enough to force the defense to put extra guys in the box anyway and we are just throwing downs away with 1 yard carries on first and/or second down and it’s forcing us into 3rd and medium - long when our oline has been bad pass blocking too. A recipe for disaster. 

On 11/9/2021 at 12:28 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

That may be true but a variety of running back skills may lessen the issues.  It's mid season and it seems to me you can't just

give up the running game.

I have the displeasure of being in giants fan territory and saquon is completely wasted behind their offensive line when healthy. He was supposedly a generational rb talent