Chris Simms on Bills loss

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Yeah, I agree completely.  Diggs is not a game breaker, nobody fears him.  He can get open and make catches, but he doesn’t strike fear in you like a Hill, etc. He’s not physically scary.  Last year he got a load of catches, but his average was pathetic as a “game changer”.  

 

Absolute nonsense. Diggs is elite. Teams right now are very literally gameplanning to take him away because he scares them. Watching any all22 of our games and it is plain to see. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Coffeesforclosers]

10 hours ago, gobills404 said:

How can anybody watch that game say that he didn't take the quick underneath stuff? He threw 26 attempts (55%) within 5 yards of the LOS and 35 attempts (74%) within 10 yards.

 

That's what your passing chart looks like when you've got no credible running game.  My god.  Chad Pennington could make those passes.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Some questions...

 

Simms said.. "the Bills talent is not that great.. there is no game changers other than Diggs and Diggs is not that much of a game changer compared to other top receivers" ...

 

Do we agree with this? Certainly wasnt the case last year.. he was great.. and what I would call a game changer.. now is it the same this year ? No.. but what are the reasons for this? Its too simple to say that "he has been figured out"...

 

Simms said.. "' they dont run the football.. they dont even try"...

 

Yes this is right.. because when they try they lose yards... so should they keep doing something that is not working?

At least bring Antonio Williams and try something different ...

 

To your bolded first: Did you watch the Simms thing?  He laid out why you keep doing something that's not working - because it keeps the defense needing to stop it, which opens other things up.  He pointed out that in several games, the Titans aren't exactly racking up the YPC, but they keep running because it forces the D to keep trying to stop it.

 

The point is, the Bills lack any kind of an offensive threat that doesn't go through Josh Allen, and that can't be the case for a long-term successful team.

 

The Antonio Williams thing is looking for a folk hero.  Yes, he did very well in the game against Miami, but in a final game against a team that had run for the bus, we have seen other players have great days that have not panned out in "for real" games (Duke Williams, Tommy Sweeney).  I don't think he's Adrian Peterson hidden on the Practice Squad.  Might he be worth a look, I'll go with the guys who see him in practice.  We might, too, since Moss is in concussion protocol.

 

"Difference maker" is one of those terms like "franchise QB" - it's a constantly shifting bar of expectations.  You can argue "Beasley is a difference maker" then it turns out to the person you're talking to, "difference maker" means "guy defenses fear could take it to the house on every play" not just "guy who is always open and can get you a first down" (which describes Beasley)

 

Diggs, Sanders, and Beasley are a quality trio of WR, but something is going on with Sanders.  He and Allen just don't seem to have "clicked".  He had a "foot injury" that kept him out of training camp and he didn't practice the week before the first 2 games, and he clearly wasn't where and when Josh expected him to be.  Then it got better but now it's worse again (Tenn and Jax), only catching half his targets.  In his interview, he alluded to some exchange with Diggs about going full speed in practice.  I think that was unintentionally revealing.

 

The Bills are clearly trying to push a lot of the offense through Sanders as the antidote to teams clamping down on Diggs, and it's not working out the way they want.  I think he needs to go on a pitch count with more snaps given to Davis and McKenzie, and the clear expectation laid out "you practice like you play".

 

 

 

 

 

[DCbillsfan]

11 hours ago, Mango said:

Allen has improved way more than I ever thought he would. He is now one of the better QB’s in the league. He’s elite, but elite at what he does. 
 

Allens next step has got to be learning how to change his style to the game he’s playing. If Allen wants to have some longevity and be the player we think he can be, he’ll have to learn to move the defense better with his eyes. And he has to get the ball out quicker. He holds on to the ball longer than almost every QB in the league. 
 

Lots of problems with the offense right now. I have some issue with Beane and Daboll, but Allen belongs in that conversation too. 

This plus I would add Allen is looking for the big play a little too much.  He seems to be pressing a little instead of taking the higher percentage throws and just keep moving the chains.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

So I agree running the ball more is not a solution. To an outside observer they see 47 pass attempts to 9 RB runs in a game that ended 9-6 and it seems ridiculous on the face of it. Usually you see that kind of disparity when a team is getting blown out all game. It's just hard to run a successful offense when we are that one dimensional.

 

So if running the ball more is not a solution, but as you also point out it's hard to run a successful offense when you are that one dimensional, what is your idea?

 

I'm confused

 

It seems to me that if it's hard to run a successful offense when you are that one dimensional, we need to be less one dimensional.

[benderbender]

Allen doesn’t have time to throw to the receivers we already have. Can OBJ block? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, gobills404 said:

How can anybody watch that game say that he didn't take the quick underneath stuff? He threw 26 attempts (55%) within 5 yards of the LOS and 35 attempts (74%) within 10 yards.

 

And to @gobills404 point: if you look at these charts for a number of games, you will see a similar pattern.

 

There are times when Allen does go for the deep shot several times in a row when there is a chain-moving throw underneath he could hit, and that might be the better situational choice. but the blanket "won't take the quick underneath stuff" is incorrect

 

And in general, Allen simply didn't have time to let deep plays develop

[Mango]

10 hours ago, gobills404 said:

How can anybody watch that game say that he didn't take the quick underneath stuff? He threw 26 attempts (55%) within 5 yards of the LOS and 35 attempts (74%) within 10 yards.

You are confusing short with quick. Josh held the ball for 3.12 seconds per throw last week (about average for him). That was good enough for third longest behind Darnold and Prescott. The only other players above 3 are Siemian and Brisset this week. 
 

He was also pretty low on intended air yards this week. 
 

Josh had a bad go. Some of that is on the OL. A lot of it is in Josh too. 

[Mango]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

And to @gobills404 point: if you look at these charts for a number of games, you will see a similar pattern.

 

There are times when Allen does go for the deep shot several times in a row when there is a chain-moving throw underneath he could hit, and that might be the better situational choice. but the blanket "won't take the quick underneath stuff" is incorrect

 

And in general, Allen simply didn't have time to let deep plays develop

 

Hoping this merges my above reply. Josh held the ball for as long as almost anybody in the league this past week. He has done this for almost his entire career. 

[GoBills808]

51 minutes ago, Mango said:

You are confusing short with quick. Josh held the ball for 3.12 seconds per throw last week (about average for him). That was good enough for third longest behind Darnold and Prescott. The only other players above 3 are Siemian and Brisset this week. 
 

He was also pretty low on intended air yards this week. 
 

Josh had a bad go. Some of that is on the OL. A lot of it is in Josh too. 

9 rushing attempts for 21 yards from the backs when you need to establish playaction to keep the defensive front honest against a makeshift oline. 47 pass attempts in a 9-6 loss. Is Allen calling the plays too?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

You are confusing short with quick. Josh held the ball for 3.12 seconds per throw last week (about average for him). That was good enough for third longest behind Darnold and Prescott. The only other players above 3 are Siemian and Brisset this week. 
 

He was also pretty low on intended air yards this week. 
 

Josh had a bad go. Some of that is on the OL. A lot of it is in Josh too. 

 

Josh does have a tendency when he gets out of rhythm to hold the ball too long, I don't think that is in dispute. I think on Sunday a lot of it to my eye was whenever the protection did hold Josh wanted to take advantage and hit a big one. In those situations he was holding it too long. I have some sympathy with him though. He knows the line is bad and he is thinking "if I don't take the chance to go deep now how are we gonna move the ball?" 

[Mango]

22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

9 rushing attempts for 21 yards from the backs when you need to establish playaction to keep the defensive front honest against a makeshift oline. 47 pass attempts in a 9-6 loss. Is Allen calling the plays too?

 

This isn't a pie. The OL, Allen, Daboll, etc. can all be to blame. Just because Allen or the OL or Daboll screw up, doesn't mean it necessarily shifts or exonerates other parties. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Mango said:

 

This isn't a pie. The OL, Allen, Daboll, etc. can all be to blame. Just because Allen or the OL or Daboll screw up, doesn't mean it necessarily shifts or exonerates other parties. 

You literally cannot play quarterback well when your line is that poor. It’s like an NFL truism.

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Josh does have a tendency when he gets out of rhythm to hold the ball too long, I don't think that is in dispute. I think on Sunday a lot of it to my eye was whenever the protection did hold Josh wanted to take advantage and hit a big one. In those situations he was holding it too long. I have some sympathy with him though. He knows the line is bad and he is thinking "if I don't take the chance to go deep now how are we gonna move the ball?" 

 

I agree. The OL is not great. I also think that has gotten into his head, but maybe too much. I don't think it is "the worst" but it is most certainly not "the best". This grouping was at least adequate last year so I am really hesitant to call them any sort of embarrassment(maybe not you) like to claim. 

 

Make no bones about it. Saying Allen was bad doesn't necessarily mean that the OL or Daboll was good. It just means Allen was bad. 

 

My biggest frustration with Allen Sunday can probably be summarized in one play, the final offensive play of the game. Protection is fine. Allen gets a little jittery at the RT shuffling. He rolls right. Has Emmanuel Sanders open at the first down marker, but decides to try and thread the needle to a crossing and covered Diggs. It was right there for the taking!

Allen gets away with a lot because he is just better than everybody else. But sometimes he has to play like he is not. (If that makes any sense)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

That's what your passing chart looks like when you've got no credible running game.  My god.  Chad Pennington could make those passes.

 

Chad Pennington actually couldn't make a number of those throws.  They would have been picked or deflected long before the ball arrived.

[Mango]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You literally cannot play quarterback well when your line is that poor. It’s like an NFL truism.

 

The final 4th down play is on Allen not the OL. Some plays are JA17's fault, others are not. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You literally cannot play quarterback well when your line is that poor. It’s like an NFL truism.

 

Yes.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

The final 4th down play is on Allen not the OL. Some plays are JA17's fault, others are not. 

The final play is what happens when you have completely and deservedly lost all faith in your protection.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

Hoping this merges my above reply. Josh held the ball for as long as almost anybody in the league this past week. He has done this for almost his entire career. 

 

I have two points. 

 

One is, how long the QB holds the ball is in no way a metric for OL effectiveness, when your QB is Josh.  How much of that time he is holding the ball is spent trying to find a guy who is open downfield or will be coming open, while evading defenders and extending the play into scramble drills? 

 

Just like a single long run for 30 yds averaged into 9 2 yard stuffs can look like a respectable 4.8 ypc, a couple of scramble drills where the QB extends the play can skew the time the QB holds the ball.

 

My eyes say that's happening.

 

Second point: when we're winning and scoring high, pundits extoll that Josh is being coached, and the play is designed for him, to make his reads deep to shallow, an aggressive play design.  The problem is that aggression backfires when there isn't time for deep to shallow progressions.

 

The Bills have never developed nor expected Josh to execute a quick passing game.  Maybe that needs to change, but you really need a TE who can run good routes and get open quickly and at least one other WR who gets open quickly for that.

 

Beasley is open on every play, but he's never been a receiver who gets open quickly.  His playing strength is that if you give him time, he'll lose anyone, but he needs time for that.

 

 

[Dan]

How does signing a malcontent WR help the Bills run more than 9 times a game?