Who is to blame: MCD or Bean?

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

we just lost to a 1-6 team missing its starting RB and LT.   The team was a joke, esp on offense.     

 

As to defense, how many interceptions did Lawrence, who has 9 on the season, throw against out vaunted D?   How many tackles for loss did we have against a depleted OL?  

 

We lead the league in takeaways.  But you want to paint the whole season over one game.

 

One game does NOT define a season.

One game does NOT define a coach.

One game does NOT define a GM.

 

Come on man, you’re better than this.  

Edited November 9, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[Mango]

23 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Still wondering where the evidence is that our DL is bad.  All the facts and evidence seem to say otherwise.  

I have been one to mention the DL. I don’t think they are bad at all. But I think we are way over invested compared to our current return. 

[BarleyNY]

9 hours ago, Mango said:

I have been one to mention the DL. I don’t think they are bad at all. But I think we are way over invested compared to our current return. 

Agreed.  I have been beating that drum too.  No team has invested more in the defense than the Bills since McD got here.  #1 in spending on that side of the ball over the last 4 seasons and a slew of high draft picks spent there.  Yes, the defense has been good, but (as you said) the return has not been in line with the outlay.  In today’s NFL, with it so skewed toward offenses, you have to invest there.

 

Its easy to be down and want to point fingers after the last loss.  The truth is that we weren’t as good as people thought after our fast start and we aren’t as bad as fans are saying now after that debacle.  The Bills are a very good team, but they have flaws.  Teams have adjusted to a lot of what we are doing and now we’ve had some adversity.  Maybe the team even got a little full of themselves.  Let’s see how they react. 

[LabattBlue]

Where were the half time adjustments against one of the worst teams in the NFL.  McD and Daboll soiled their pants badly.  How exactly is the time spent during the 20 minute half time?

Edited November 9, 2021 by BTB

[JGMcD2]

On 11/8/2021 at 9:37 AM, Einstein said:

My vote would be for Beane.

 

I think he values his draft picks far too much. It was clear that our run game and offensive line was not up to standards prior to the trade deadline and he was not aggressive enough in finding talent to fix that.

 

I favor the Rams model of trading draft picks for proven players, rather than taking 50/50 (or worse odds) in the draft.

 

I would much rather have a solid offensive linemen or two than a 1st or 2nd round pick in 6 months after another no-SB season.

You favor the Rams model which has rarely ever worked for anyone over the model of drafting well which works for just about everyone who does it? 
 

Makes sense. 

15 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

we just lost to a 1-6 team missing its starting RB and LT.   The team was a joke, esp on offense.     

 

As to defense, how many interceptions did Lawrence, who has 9 on the season, throw against out vaunted D?   How many tackles for loss did we have against a depleted OL?  

 

Have you put a lot of time into being one of the Top 5 worst posters on this board? Or did it just come naturally? 

Edited November 9, 2021 by JGMcD2

[Coach Tuesday]

43 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

You favor the Rams model which has rarely ever worked for anyone over the model of drafting well which works for just about everyone who does it? 
 

Makes sense. 

Have you put a lot of time into being one of the Top 5 worst posters on this board? Or did it just come naturally? 

 

You're spinning out of control the last few days.

[Einstein]

4 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

You favor the Rams model which has rarely ever worked for anyone over the model of drafting well which works for just about everyone who does it? 

 

No team has ever done the Rams model consistently. Ever.

 

This is unchartered territory.

 

As for the “model of drafting well” … There is no model of drafting well.

 

You can create a model of drafting, but you can’t a guarantee that you will do it well.

 

You can’t guarantee that the picks will be good. Even good GM’s can’t expect much more than 50% of their picks to be successful.

 

Lets look at Beane’s draft picks:

 

- Oliver (TOP 10) is somewhere between mediocre and above average. Jeffrey Simmons, who is an absolute monster, was taken around 10 picks after him.

- Epenesa (2nd round) is practically invisible and is a routine inactive 

- Ford (2nd round) is horrible

- Moss (3rd round) has 5 games this year where he averages 3.4 yards per carry or less

- Singletary (3rd round) has the field vision of a 90 year old

- Gabe (4th round) is invisible AND dropped a potential game-tying catch last week.

- Fromm (5th round) isn’t on the active roster

- Joseph (5th round) isn’t on the active roster 

 

I could go on, but what’s the point?

 

Even Beane’s GOOD picks are not great. They’re not dominant. They’re not “special”.

 

I would trade ANY of those players for a few quality linemen.

 

.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Einstein

[RyanC883]

On 11/8/2021 at 10:29 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

We lead the league in takeaways.  But you want to paint the whole season over one game.

 

One game does NOT define a season.

One game does NOT define a coach.

One game does NOT define a GM.

 

Come on man, you’re better than this.  

I said the D had a bad game, you are twisting this into a season long issue. 
 

And this is not one game defining Bean.   He has been subpar (at best) putting together OL and DL.   Both were an issue last season and still are.  Just because our secondary can cover for the DL and JA for the OL do not make them less of a systemic issue that has yet to be fixed.  

[Scott7975]

On 11/7/2021 at 10:27 PM, Niagara Dude said:

Beane has done very little to improve this roster,  after adding one difference maker in Diggs what move has he made?  Like why draft Basham and not a guard or center?  Morse was another guy he overpaid,  so when he has money he seems to overpay and blows it.  

 

Did they not make the AFCCG last season?  When was the last time that happened?  Id say he improved the roster quite a bit.

[Scott7975]

On 11/8/2021 at 5:46 PM, RyanC883 said:

 

we just lost to a 1-6 team missing its starting RB and LT.   The team was a joke, esp on offense.     

 

As to defense, how many interceptions did Lawrence, who has 9 on the season, throw against out vaunted D?   How many tackles for loss did we have against a depleted OL?  

 

 

How many points did they score? Nine. 0 Ints 1 forced fumble. 6 TFLs an 2 sacks. 218 yards of total offense for the Jags.  139 of it passing. 79 rushing. 3.8 yards per play. 15% 3rd down efficiency.  All that despite the Jags getting 3 extra possessions from turnover.  That is stellar defense and I don't care who they were playing.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

15 hours ago, BTB said:

Where were the half time adjustments against one of the worst teams in the NFL.  McD and Daboll soiled their pants badly.  How exactly is the time spent during the 20 minute half time?

 

Halftime is 12 minutes and some of that is getting to the locker room and then back on to the field.  They have sammiches and prolly take a piss.

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

I said the D had a bad game, you are twisting this into a season long issue. 
 

And this is not one game defining Bean.   He has been subpar (at best) putting together OL and DL.   Both were an issue last season and still are.  Just because our secondary can cover for the DL and JA for the OL do not make them less of a systemic issue that has yet to be fixed.  

How can a D possibly have a bad game when the other team got 3 turnovers and still only scored 9 points.  Stop dying on that hill.  You are wrong in a very bad way/

Edited November 10, 2021 by Scott7975

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

I said the D had a bad game, you are twisting this into a season long issue. 
 

And this is not one game defining Bean.   He has been subpar (at best) putting together OL and DL.   Both were an issue last season and still are.  Just because our secondary can cover for the DL and JA for the OL do not make them less of a systemic issue that has yet to be fixed.  

Huh?  You literally started a thread and poll about who to blame, Beane or McD and been ranting in this thread about overall things not just one game.  So no, you’re making it a bigger season long and even over both McD and Beanes overall time here.  Beane didn’t play on Sunday, so you’re literally making it season long issue or more just including him in the poll. Lol
 

You realize the secondary benefits from the DL correct?  
 

Our secondary struggled last year with our DL issues.  Star is back and we added more youth and talent upfront and suddenly we lead the league in takeaways.

 

The fact you don’t seem to see the correlation is puzzling.  And again, we have the number 1 defense in the league, the fact you keep complaining about any part of our D is even more puzzling.

 

And the OL you’re upset about this week was missing 2 important starters.  Most teams don’t have starting caliber backups on the OL, it might be the single most talent deficient position in the overall NFL right now.  
 

I heard all the subpar nonsense about Beane not being able to address WR.  Then we wound up with one of the best WR groups in the NFL.  
 

Rousseau already won some rookie accolades thus far and our DL is much improved from last year, and you’re trying to sell this story now that he can’t address the OL.  
 

Sorry man, nothing you’re saying makes a lot sense and seems rooted in post loss anger more than facts.  

Edited November 10, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[JGMcD2]

18 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

No team has ever done the Rams model consistently. Ever.

 

This is unchartered territory.

 

As for the “model of drafting well” … There is no model of drafting well.

 

You can create a model of drafting, but you can’t a guarantee that you will do it well.

 

You can’t guarantee that the picks will be good. Even good GM’s can’t expect much more than 50% of their picks to be successful.

 

Lets look at Beane’s draft picks:

 

- Oliver (TOP 10) is somewhere between mediocre and above average. Jeffrey Simmons, who is an absolute monster, was taken around 10 picks after him.

- Epenesa (2nd round) is practically invisible and is a routine inactive 

- Ford (2nd round) is horrible

- Moss (3rd round) has 5 games this year where he averages 3.4 yards per carry or less

- Singletary (3rd round) has the field vision of a 90 year old

- Gabe (4th round) is invisible AND dropped a potential game-tying catch last week.

- Fromm (5th round) isn’t on the active roster

- Joseph (5th round) isn’t on the active roster 

 

I could go on, but what’s the point?

 

Even Beane’s GOOD picks are not great. They’re not dominant. They’re not “special”.

 

I would trade ANY of those players for a few quality linemen.

 

.

Nobody has ever attempted the Rams model because eventually you’re out of resources and in salary cap hell. Kudos to them for pushing all their chips in… but it’s going to set the franchise back and will look horrible if they don’t win the Super Bowl. 
 

That Von Miller trade was great too - he really had an impact in their blowout loss to the Titans (I’m just overreacting based on 1 game like everyone else - this is the equivalent of you complaining about Gabe Davis dropping a catch in 1 game). 
 

It’s comical you’re upset about Moss and Singletary, then a few lines down your begging for an offensive line. I bet Moss and Singletary would love an offensive line too! 
 

You’re completely missing the point of drafting… and I don’t need you to “go on” when you attach comments like “field vision of a 90 year old”, “has 5 games where he averages 3.4 yards” or  get upset because a pair or 5th rounders aren’t on the roster. You’ve proven you don’t understand. 
 

 

[JGMcD2]

22 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

You're spinning out of control the last few days.

You’re reading this board and all of the idiotic takes and knee-jerk reactions… but I’m the one spinning out of control?

 

The same miserable people post the same miserable crap every week and then try to pass themselves off as knowledgeable. That’s out of control… I’m sure the mods are taking down more of their posts than we even know. We just see their least ridiculous posts. 
 

They complain about everything and then REALLY go out on a limb and say “not good enough to win a Super Bowl.” They’ve got a 97% chance of being right about that… and then scream “I told you so when it’s all said and done.” 
 

***** figure it out. This place is a mess and will just get worse if nobody says anything. 

[What a Tuel]

8 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

How many points did they score? Nine. 0 Ints 1 forced fumble. 6 TFLs an 2 sacks. 218 yards of total offense for the Jags.  139 of it passing. 79 rushing. 3.8 yards per play. 15% 3rd down efficiency.  All that despite the Jags getting 3 extra possessions from turnover.  That is stellar defense and I don't care who they were playing.

 

Not to mention 3 of those points were gifted by the refs changing their mind on an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty in the first drive. Call it on the offense, but then let's get together and discuss and oh ok, its on the defense (White) despite the guy literally going after White like a punk.

 

When do they even get to discuss either? How many times have we seen a bad unsportsmanlike conduct call not able to be overturned by rational discussion? But everything is up for debate apparently when it is against the bills.

 

Ok im done venting. I don't know how anyone can blame the defense here. They held them to 9, and the offense just had to score a touchdown. one touchdown. Defense did its job.

[Einstein]

32 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Nobody has ever attempted the Rams model because eventually you’re out of resources and in salary cap hell. Kudos to them for pushing all their chips in… but it’s going to set the franchise back and will look horrible if they don’t win the Super Bowl. 
 

That Von Miller trade was great too - he really had an impact in their blowout loss to the Titans (I’m just overreacting based on 1 game like everyone else - this is the equivalent of you complaining about Gabe Davis dropping a catch in 1 game). 
 

It’s comical you’re upset about Moss and Singletary, then a few lines down your begging for an offensive line. I bet Moss and Singletary would love an offensive line too! 
 

You’re completely missing the point of drafting… and I don’t need you to “go on” when you attach comments like “field vision of a 90 year old”, “has 5 games where he averages 3.4 yards” or  get upset because a pair or 5th rounders aren’t on the roster. You’ve proven you don’t understand. 
 

 

 

Ok. We will agree to disagree.

[Rc2catch]

28 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

You’re reading this board and all of the idiotic takes and knee-jerk reactions… but I’m the one spinning out of control?

 

The same miserable people post the same miserable crap every week and then try to pass themselves off as knowledgeable. That’s out of control… I’m sure the mods are taking down more of their posts than we even know. We just see their least ridiculous posts. 
 

They complain about everything and then REALLY go out on a limb and say “not good enough to win a Super Bowl.” They’ve got a 97% chance of being right about that… and then scream “I told you so when it’s all said and done.” 
 

***** figure it out. This place is a mess and will just get worse if nobody says anything. 

I fully agree on all that. When there’s wins half these guys are quiet and stay in game day threads for hot takes and over reactions. But losses, holy cow there’s the same 5-10 posters non stop on every thread pushing their agenda. 

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

 

Disagree actually. Allen is freaking unreal. Guys awesome and it’s the reason this team went to the championship game and aSB favorite this year…. agree with every other Beane pick though. Some solid, some meh, and a couple bad ones.

 

You’re right about Allen. For some reason I forgot that he was a Beane pick, and not part of the McD inaugural 2017 class.

 

He is the 1 dominant player Beane has picked.

[NewEra]

15 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

To be fair to Beane ,who I agree, deserves the criticism, but McD obviously has a huge influence over his decision making…. And I have to think that played a big part in them taking a pass rusher with their first two picks and essentially loading up ridiculously on the defensive line while not doing nearly enough to address an OK offensive line that has regressed. 

Disagree actually. Allen is freaking unreal. Guys awesome and it’s the reason this team went to the championship game and aSB favorite this year…. agree with every other Beane pick though. Some solid, some meh, and a couple bad ones.

Maybe McD did have more say than most coaches on personnel.  Idk.  Beane is the Gm.  As far as I’m concerned, he’s on the hook for personnel decisions unless we know otherwise.  

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Disagree actually. Allen is freaking unreal. Guys awesome and it’s the reason this team went to the championship game and aSB favorite this year…. agree with every other Beane pick though. Some solid, some meh, and a couple bad ones.

This is plenty to make him one of the best drafters in the NFL. It’s nothing to scoff at - wouldn’t you agree?

 

I’m not saying that he’s perfect by any means… but the damn guy is the reigning Executive of the Year. He’s pretty good at what he does.